Aromasin strength

[cgi]

Okay so I know Austinite's educational thead says for a basic 500mg a week test cycle aromasin should be dosed at 25mg every day. This implies that aromasin is rather weak. However on other forums like this one that rhymes with heeemoydzzz most seem to think that even 6.25mg everyday crushes their E2. What gives?

[Bonaparte]

They're hypochondriacs. 6 mg isn't going to do much of anything.

[Black]

I've been reading into this as well. I always thought 12.5mg ED is a standard dose for a standard test cycle. I agree that 6 isn't going to do much.

On 700mg of test prop a week, I am dosing 12.5mg ED. At 25mg ED I start feeling lethargic and my joints hurt. Now, I generally have lower e, so this may be why for my case.

[Bio-Active]

Labs are the only way to know what dose is going to work for you. 12.5-25 mg Ed is a pretty standard dose though

[jimmyinkedup]

Many based their dosage of stane on studies done on women. When you look at studies on maes it is much less owerful thn inititally believed. Combine that with those that do bloodwork discovering the same and stane was long underdosed by many and still is. Also it is very difficult to crush e2 while taking stane-thus I think 25 is a good dose as well.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

I am not the expert but aare you guys sure ou are reading or retyping that right 1 mg a day is a cancer dose to block 100% of Estrogen and most threads I have read i this forum recommend .25 EOD ? Do you guys relly mean 12 whole mg ?

[RASIL]

For me I found that at 400 - 500mg of tst a week, 1mg 3 times a week did the trick, eod made me lethargic. I also found that taking before bed and at least 24hrs after the pin really helped, I have no idea why.

[MuscleInk]

For me I found that at 400 - 500mg of tst a week, 1mg 3 times a week did the trick, eod made me lethargic. I also found that taking before bed and at least 24hrs after the pin really helped, I have no idea why.

I believe you're referring to arimidex , NOT Aromasin .

[RASIL]

I believe you're referring to arimidex, NOT Aromasin.

My bad.. You would be correct

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

For me I found that at 400 - 500mg of tst a week, 1mg 3 times a week did the trick, eod made me lethargic. I also found that taking before bed and at least 24hrs after the pin really helped, I have no idea why.

Yeah Thanks for the reply ? As I said I am no expert but even 1 mg EOD would be IMHO a little on the high side because with Blood work you want your E2 to be in the ball park of 24 to 28 and that is a little bit of a wide range you can read about it in the stickies at the top of the page in the Anti Aging Section and TRT , HRT . Even guys who do nothing but cycle can gain a great deal of knowledge from the Anti Aging Section just like where you want your E2 and how to take HCG and why + proper dose . Lots of guys who cycle don't taks HCG except for PCT and MuscleInk would know a lot more of an expert answer but IMO HCG is good for mental health and well being year round ? This may just be for males on TRT but IMO I would think it would make anyone feel better if taken on and off cycle for many reasons ? Lots of good reads in the TRT sectio give it a try and you will learn a lot


Tha trun down feeling is from more than likely you attempt to keep E2 low and at 1 mg 3 x's a week sounds a little high the .25 mg EOD sounds on the money from my persomel experience and other recomendations . To low will make you feel just as bad as to high according to the reads from the Section on Ai's in the Anti-Aging Section of th forum lots of good read from real experts and not just testing as they go

[Bio-Active]

Yeah Thanks for the reply ? As I said I am no expert but even 1 mg EOD would be IMHO a little on the high side because with Blood work you want your E2 to be in the ball park of 24 to 28 and that is a little bit of a wide range you can read about it in the stickies at the top of the page in the Anti Aging Section and TRT , HRT . Even guys who do nothing but cycle can gain a great deal of knowledge from the Anti Aging Section just like where you want your E2 and how to take HCG and why + proper dose . Lots of guys who cycle don't taks HCG except for PCT and MuscleInk would know a lot more of an expert answer but IMO HCG is good for mental health and well being year round ? This may just be for males on TRT but IMO I would think it would make anyone feel better if taken on and off cycle for many reasons ? Lots of good reads in the TRT sectio give it a try and you will learn a lot Tha trun down feeling is from more than likely you attempt to keep E2 low and at 1 mg 3 x's a week sounds a little high the .25 mg EOD sounds on the money from my persomel experience and other recomendations . To low will make you feel just as bad as to high according to the reads from the Section on Ai's in the Anti-Aging Section of th forum lots of good read from real experts and not just testing as they go

hcg would not be a good addition to pct. It's counterproductive and would I suppress lh function making recovery longer. The ref ranges for anti aging are for trt only as they are trying to mimic the ranges your body would produce naturally not the ranges established during a steroid cycle

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

hcg would not be a good addition to pct. It's counterproductive and would I suppress lh function making recovery longer. The ref ranges for anti aging are for trt only as they are trying to mimic the ranges your body would produce naturally not the ranges established during a steroid cycle

Are you saying you do not use HCG as part of your PCT ? Just asking ?

HCG causes your Testies to start back producing natural and more Testosterone in a natural way ? That is why I was asking ? I am 54 and did juice heavy 30 years ago and have read a lot ffrom the pros on this forum and I am not saying you are wrong ? I have just heard some of the retired pros say Nova HCG and Clomid for PCT ? I may be mistaken bit I don't have to worry about it I just blast and go back to TRT dose

[clarky.]

No hcg in pct buzzard just on cycle it mimics lh as you know so on cycle that's good keeps your balls big so to speak not just that but thats what we want so when it's time for pct you've got a good chance of a faster easier recovery.

[Bio-Active]

Are you saying you do not use HCG as part of your PCT ? Just asking ? HCG causes your Testies to start back producing natural and more Testosterone in a natural way ? That is why I was asking ? I am 54 and did juice heavy 30 years ago and have read a lot ffrom the pros on this forum and I am not saying you are wrong ? I have just heard some of the retired pros say Nova HCG and Clomid for PCT ? I may be mistaken bit I don't have to worry about it I just blast and go back to TRT dose

hcg would be better run during your cycle to maintain testicular function when lh is already suppress from the administration of exogenous testosterone. Administering hcg during pct is going to keep lh levels suppressed and the whole idea of pct is to get your body producing testosterone again.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Thanks guys my knowledge is old sckool and reading only een back in the game 13 mths and been trying to learn al I can and as I said I am on TRT and when I don't take HCG it effects me mentaly and well being ? So I try to stay on HCG all the time no source right maw and Dr. will not script

[DexterMorgan]

15mg/day worked great for me on a 500mg of test. Some people may need 25.

[MuscleInk]

hcg would be better run during your cycle to maintain testicular function when lh is already suppress from the administration of exogenous testosterone. Administering hcg during pct is going to keep lh levels suppressed and the whole idea of pct is to get your body producing testosterone again.

^^^Exactly. Good work as always Jim.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

^^^Exactly. Good work as always Jim.

MuscleInk Why does such a low dose of an AI work when on a TRT dose ? Because the max Test will be 200 mg a week and a much lower dose and that is why TRT guys take .25 EOD and that usually keep AI in Check ?

When guys on Chcle will take 500 and 600 mg a week ? Still seems 25 mg would be a large amount ?

[Bio-Active]

MuscleInk Why does such a low dose of an AI work when on a TRT dose ? Because the max Test will be 200 mg a week and a much lower dose and that is why TRT guys take .25 EOD and that usually keep AI in Check ? When guys on Chcle will take 500 and 600 mg a week ? Still seems 25 mg would be a large amount ?

you are confusing aromasin and Adex I think? Adex is commonly run at .25 mg eod and aromasin is commonly dosed between 12.5-25 mg ed

[MuscleInk]

MuscleInk Why does such a low dose of an AI work when on a TRT dose ? Because the max Test will be 200 mg a week and a much lower dose and that is why TRT guys take .25 EOD and that usually keep AI in Check ?

When guys on Chcle will take 500 and 600 mg a week ? Still seems 25 mg would be a large amount ?

Are we talking Aromasin or arimidex ?

Depending on the TRT dose, some guys may require very little to no AI and they depend on blood tests every 8-12 weeks to evaluate estrogen levels (and then treat as necessary). Doses do influence amount of AI but an equally important (if not more important) factor is aromatase activity. Some men have higher levels of aromatase activity (sometimes referred to as excess aromatase syndrome) than others and will turnover testosterone to estrogen domains more frequently than others. Doses of AIs are general guidelines but may need slight adjustments based on individual rates of aromatase activity. Some guys need very little AIs for TRT (.25mg/wk of adex) but others may require more frequent dosing even on TRT protocols.

[cgi]

Yeah Thanks for the reply ? As I said I am no expert but even 1 mg EOD would be IMHO a little on the high side because with Blood work you want your E2 to be in the ball park of 24 to 28 and that is a little bit of a wide range you can read about it in the stickies at the top of the page in the Anti Aging Section and TRT , HRT . Even guys who do nothing but cycle can gain a great deal of knowledge from the Anti Aging Section just like where you want your E2 and how to take HCG and why + proper dose . Lots of guys who cycle don't taks HCG except for PCT and MuscleInk would know a lot more of an expert answer but IMO HCG is good for mental health and well being year round ? This may just be for males on TRT but IMO I would think it would make anyone feel better if taken on and off cycle for many reasons ? Lots of good reads in the TRT sectio give it a try and you will learn a lot


Tha trun down feeling is from more than likely you attempt to keep E2 low and at 1 mg 3 x's a week sounds a little high the .25 mg EOD sounds on the money from my persomel experience and other recomendations . To low will make you feel just as bad as to high according to the reads from the Section on Ai's in the Anti-Aging Section of th forum lots of good read from real experts and not just testing as they go

Dude you're talking about ARIMIDEX not AROMASIN . This thread is about Aromasin.

[MuscleInk]

Dude you're talking about ARIMIDEX not AROMASIN. This thread is about Aromasin.

DUDE hence my question in the very first line.

[Ashop]

Okay so I know Austinite's educational thead says for a basic 500mg a week test cycle aromasin should be dosed at 25mg every day. This implies that aromasin is rather weak. However on other forums like this one that rhymes with heeemoydzzz most seem to think that even 6.25mg everyday crushes their E2. What gives?

I think with AI's you should start low. You dont much at all. I think 12.5mg ED
would be a fair place to start on a nice cycle.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

DAMN I AM DUMB SOME TIMES ! iS ADEX THAT MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE ? i GET 30 MG FOR $8.00 AND THATBLAST ME 4 MTHS ?

[Cuz]

DAMN I AM DUMB SOME TIMES ! iS ADEX THAT MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE ? i GET 30 MG FOR $8.00 AND THATBLAST ME 4 MTHS ?

yes arimidex is a expensive brand of anastrozole. quite pricey

[cgi]

DUDE hence my question in the very first line.

Lol, I wasn't talking about you mayne. Talking about these 2 dudes who don't know the difference between aromasin and adex.

[cgi]

DAMN I AM DUMB SOME TIMES ! iS ADEX THAT MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE ? i GET 30 MG FOR $8.00 AND THATBLAST ME 4 MTHS ?

You make literally zero sense...

[DexterMorgan]

DAMN I AM DUMB SOME TIMES ! iS ADEX THAT MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE ? i GET 30 MG FOR $8.00 AND THATBLAST ME 4 MTHS ?

Adex is cheap comparing to Aromasin .

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

You make literally zero sense...

You are the one who does not understand ! If you took 24 mg's of Adex a day you would harm yourself and your E2 would be 0 and you would feel like crap I can run 600 mg's of Tren and 300 mg's of Test a week and stay balanced on .25 mg's of Adex EOD a lot cheaper and a lot more balanced E2 even on cycle if you are smart you will try to stay close to balanced ? Do you understand now ?

[Black]

You are the one who does not understand ! If you took 24 mg's of Adev a day you would harm yourself and your E2 would be 0 and you would feel like crap I can run 600 mg's of Tren and 300 gg's of Test a week and stay balanced on .25 mg's of Adex EOD a lot cheaper and a lot more balanced E2 even on cycle if you are smart you will try to stay close to balanced ? Do you understand now ?

........no.........

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Estradiol and Therapeutic Management: What you should know

Since this is a subject that comes up here time and time again, I decided to start this thread so we can easily refer members to this information regarding Estradiol and its therapeutic management under Testosterone Replacement Protocols.

From the beginning...

Estradiol is simply a class of Estrogen of which there are about 30 different types. Estradiol (E2 or 17β-Estradiol, or as Oestradiol) is a sex hormone. Estradiol is abbreviated as “E2” as it has 2 hydroxyl groups in its molecular structure. It is known by many of us as simply “E2 “as its abbreviation.

Many people (even Physicians) simply call Estradiol, Estrogen.

Estradiol is the major sex hormone of interest in foundational Testosterone Replacement Therapies.

Why it Matters

There are basically two very important reasons that we need to care about Estradiol.

The first is that Estradiol is a powerful Testosterone receptor antagonist. What this means to us men is that Estradiol creates a very strong bond to the Androgen Receptors of Testosterone and renders them useless.

However, when testosterone binds to an Androgen Receptor, it activates that receptor and we get the physiological effects we're all looking for. Now, when Estradiol binds to that same receptor it blocks Testosterone from binding, yet it does not activate the receptor, so in short nothing happens.

This means that if your Estradiol serum level is high, no matter how much exogenous testosterone you take it isn't going to help you as it should because too many of your androgen receptors are now blocked by Estradiol and your Free Testosterone has nowhere to go.

Exogenous Testosterone can't do you any good if it doesn't have receptors available to activate…simple enough.

Now, things can get worse believe it or not... some believe that elevated levels of Estradiol can cause the down regulation of Androgen Receptors. What this potentially means is that your body may respond to higher levels of Estradiol by creating fewer Androgen Receptors as cells are replaced in a normal regeneration cycle.

So, not only does Estradiol block the available Androgen Receptors as noted, it may cause your body to produce fewer of them in the future!

This is where many Docs get it wrong and is one primary reason why just “raising Testosterone serum levels” alone as a mono-therapy may not have any immediate effect on a man. It may be that the receptors have been down regulated and so there will be a need to lower Estradiol levels and increase Testosterone levels in order to get a man’s body to up-regulate again and this could take some time.

The second reason we care about Estradiol in men is that we also have Estrogen Receptors and Estradiol will bind to them and cause them to activate. This is fine if you want to grow man boobs (Gynocomastia) add belly fat and get an enlarged prostate, among other things, but not so good if you want to look and feel like a healthy man.

Keep in mind, the aromatase enzyme lives in the skin and has a propensity for abdominal fat. Meaning the more belly fat you have the higher level of aromatase you will have.

Where Estrogen Comes From

Let’s forget environmental estrogens here; the primary pathway for Estradiol production is via the conversion of Testosterone by the Aromatase Enzyme.

What this means is that the Aromatase Enzyme found in every man’s body bonds to Testosterone Receptors and chemically synthesizes it to Estradiol (E2).

Think about this for a minute and realize that this conversion is a double edged sword. All in one process you're 1) losing Testosterone and 2) gaining Estradiol.

Obviously this is not good healthy state to be in and one that needs to be managed correctly.

This is where drugs like an Aromatase Inhibitors (AI) like Anastrozole (brand name Arimidex - aka "adex" etc.) come into a well planned TRT protocol. An AI will bond to the Aromatase Enzyme and prevent it from converting your Testosterone to Estradiol.

Keep in mind, and many men get this wrong; but AI’s do not work directly on Estradiol nor on the Estrogen receptors. It is SERM's like Clomid and Nolvadex that bond to Estrogen Receptors.

SERM's and AI's are different compounds, so don't get them confused. Nolvadex acts as an estrogen antagonist and will not stop the aromatization process. It disrupts the estrogen receptor bond formation process. So, your estrogen will rise but will be blocked from the chest receptors.

So, an AI gives us that double edged sword but now in reverse. An AI will prevent the loss of Testosterone to conversion and consequently lowers our Estradiol levels which helps keep our Androgen Receptors available for Testosterone.

Keep in mind that Anastrozole is a powerful aromatase inhibitor (antagonist) and that too much can easily cause you to push your E2 level to low. Its half life is app. 46.8 hrs so this needs to be kept in mind upon initiating a dosing schedule, especially if self-administering this product. In most all cases it is suggested to start with the lowest possible dose and titrate up based on frequent blood work, until stable levels are attained.

Less is more here! Both high and low E2 come with similar side effects such as joint pain, loss of libido, etc.

Estradiol Always Follows Testosterone

Here's where Doctor’s and other Medical Practitioners get it wrong; they forget that Estradiol always follows Testosterone. As your Testosterone serum levels elevate, so will your Estradiol levels.

If your Doctor is not doing something to manage your Estradiol levels (like taking an AI) then you aren't really going to get anywhere with higher Testosterone serum levels because your higher Estradiol levels are just going to cancel out any beneficial effect from the Testosterone. Like I said, your exogenous Testosterone can't do you any good if all your Androgen Receptors are all bound up with Estradiol.

For those of us with "age related" low Testosterone levels, this is a serious issue because our bodies are naturally trying to keep Testosterone levels lower and Estradiol higher by producing more of the Aromatase Enzyme.

If you're a younger man and have low Testosterone serum levels for some other reason, Aromatization may not be as much of an issue, but trust me…it still matters. Keep in mind that many fifty plus year old men have higher estrogen levels than women the same age.

Fat!

Excessive body fat produces Estrogen and Aromatase Enzymes. If you're carrying extra body fat, one of the best things you can do to help your hormone balance is to lose that fat…and for many other health reasons as well.

Problems Associated With Low Estradiol

What is the ideal number for you? That would be for you and your physician to decide. However, keep in mind, there can be just as many complications, if not more, by having your estradiol value too low. It is essential for men to have healthy levels of estrogen in their bodies to function properly.

Some have the mindset that lower is better, which is the wrong type of mindset. In fact, sustaining low levels of estradiol for lengthy periods of time can be downright detrimental!

Here are just some of the issues associated with having your estradiol level too low:

• A feeling of being lethargic, sluggishness, and frequently fatigued.
• Headaches
• Depression
• Dry skin and hair
• Unhealthy nails
• Loss of libido
• Sore, achy joints
• Inability to concentrate
• Panic and anxiety sensations
• Potential risks for osteoporosis and bone fractures
• Potential cardiovascular and immune risks

“In Range” Does Not Mean “Normal”

One of the biggest and more frustrating problems you're likely to face is the problem of most Doctors believing that any blood test value that is "in range" is "normal" and therefore “fine”. I wish it was that simple and that goes for most if not all lab ranges.

Let's take a look at Testosterone values. The Total Testosterone reference range for Quest is 250-1100 ng/dL. But those values were formulated simply by looking at the values of everyone else who has a blood test for Testosterone…let me say that again: “everyone else.”

What's normal for a young guy is to be in the higher end of the reference range. What's normal for an older guy is to be in the lower end of the range…just normal biological processes.

So, while low Testosterone might be "normal" from a lab reference range perspective that doesn't mean it's good or healthy for that matter! I may be an older guy, but why should I be happy with lower Testosterone and elevated Estradiol levels simply because “it's normal”?

All men of all ages should be in the higher end of the reference range if they want to feel good, look good and perform athletically and sexually as men and grow old healthy!

The same holds true for Estradiol levels. The Access Medical Labs reference range for Estradiol Sensitive is 7.6-42.6 pg/ml but "normal" young men are at the low end of that reference range and that's where we all want to be as well.

Trust me, if your Testosterone serum levels is 250 ng/dl and your Estradiol is 42 pg/ml, you may be "in range" for both values, but you aren't going to feel good or have anywhere near the athletic and sexual performance that you would have if your Testosterone level was 800 ng/dl and your Estradiol level was 25 pg/ml.

A word about Estradiol “Sensitive” Testing

Unless your Doctor specifically requests a ‘Sensitive’ assay the lab will default to the standard Estradiol assay designed specifically for women, which is useless for men. The reason for the difference between the two assays is the bell curve from which the test was designed sits within the “normal” range for women and not men.

Therefore, the hormone concentration range appropriate for adult men falls on the flat slope of that bell curve making it completely inaccurate for testing men’s E2 serum levels. Always, ask for the “Sensitive” assay when your Doctor is conducting a blood test and testing for Estradiol.

Natural Variation in Populations

All populations exhibit some amount variation. The average height for men might be 5' 10" but we all know guys who are much taller and much shorter…it’s just a natural part of our existence. This same variation applies to Testosterone serum levels, Estradiol serum levels, and reactions to various therapies as well…we’re all different!

In other words, while what I've outlined holds true in general; how it specifically applys to you will vary.

Ok, that's enough rambling from me for now on this subject matter. I wrote this, with the expert help and assistance from kelkel and Vettester, as a basic primer; there's a lot more to this subject, so use this as a springboard to do more research on your own an learn .

[clarky.]

Op' s thread has been derailed here.

[jimmyinkedup]

Op' s thread has been derailed here.

LOL thats an understatement there clarky..it been freaking obliterated !!!
Congrats on the bump up too btw man!

[clarky.]

Obliterated thats a better way off putting it lol. And thanks mate.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

i JUST THOUGHT THIS INFO MAY BE OF INTEREST TO SOME OF YOU GUYS ? iF IT DOES NOT INTEREST YOU , PLEASE FORGIVE ME !

[GSXRvi6]

Yea I'm confused too by the dosing for this, I've seen some guys say 6mg EOD for aromasin . I'm planning a 500mg/wk run here soon, and I plan on running 10mg ED of stane and adjusting from there. .25mg EOD of dex gave me sore knees so bad I could barely squat, blood test confirmed E was low. If my skin breaks out bad I'll up my dose, if my joints hurt I'll back it off, and either way about 5 weeks in I'll get blood work to see where I'm sitting.

[MuscleInk]

Lol, I wasn't talking about you mayne. Talking about these 2 dudes who don't know the difference between aromasin and adex.

I thought maybe.....then I thought maybe not. Thanks for setting me straight!

[MuscleInk]

Yea I'm confused too by the dosing for this, I've seen some guys say 6mg EOD for aromasin. I'm planning a 500mg/wk run here soon, and I plan on running 10mg ED of stane and adjusting from there. .25mg EOD of dex gave me sore knees so bad I could barely squat, blood test confirmed E was low. If my skin breaks out bad I'll up my dose, if my joints hurt I'll back it off, and either way about 5 weeks in I'll get blood work to see where I'm sitting.

For Aromasin , the dose is typically 12.5mg per day. There are a few guys here that run doses from 25-50mg per day. This may be due to high concentrations of gear, higher bf, increased aromatase activity, an under dosed AI....or any combination of those.

Blood work is the best way to know so it sounds like your on top of it.

[mockery]

an under dosed AI

There seems to be this theory that a certain stane product is just that, under dosed.

[MuscleInk]

There seems to be this theory that a certain stane product is just that, under dosed.

Yes sir.