Thoughts on upcoming cycle

[DADDYDBOL]

Test Prop
Weeks 1-12
200mgs EOD

Tren A
Weeks 1-12
100mgs EOD

Arimidex
Weeks 1-12
.5mg EOD

Winny
Weeks 8-12
30mgs ED

PCT
HCG
Days 1-10
500iu ED

Nolvadex
Week 1-2
40mgs ED
Weeks 3-4
20mgs ED

I have not ran Prop, Tren or Winny so along with a very clean diet I am hoping for little water retention and just clean solid gains. Not trying to just get as big as possible.

I have always ran either cyp or ent at 750mgs to a gram a week for 12+ weeks but my last cycle was a gram of ENT for 20 weeks and I have always used A bombs, Dbol or Reforvit (liquid Dbol) because my goal was to just get as big as possible. That's not my goal with this one, while I want to gain as much mass as possible I want it to be clean quality gains.

As of today I am 36yo - 190 and 6'1" (I generally stay above 200 hovering around 210 to 215 but given the events of the last 18 months I have lost some weight as well as muscle not being able to workout for 7 or 8 months, diet fell off as well since I wasn't training and spent quite a bit of time in the hospital)

This will be my 5th cycle, all others were to just try to get as big as possible, reached 230 my last cycle but it wasn't clean, held lots of water, that was roughly 4 years ago.

It's a pretty simple stack but I would love to hear your thoughts on the prop tren and winny, what to expect, should notice something within the first as they are fast acting esters, or should I still kick off with 3 weeks of anadrol or dianabol ? What would be the reasons to and not to? Should I run the test a little higher? Should I also run the tren a a little higher?

Thanks guys,

DD

[Igifuno]

What is your bf% right now dbol ? Also, would like some clarity on your goals here. As you know, this is a 'cutting' cycle, but you mention looking for water retention and are considering drol/dbol...

In the meantime, couple thoughts:

- Prop and tren doses are good
- You may want to consider caber or prami with tren
- I would run the winny 7-12 at 50mg/ed minimum
- HCG should be run during cycle, and not with PCT
- Add clomid to your PCT regimine

[Lunk1]

The only thing I would add to the above from Igi is that I would drop the winny all together. I have found you just don'r really see any true benefit from Var or Winny during a tren cycle. Not enough to piss with, especially as dry as Winny makes joints !

[DADDYDBOL]

What is your bf% right now dbol ? Also, would like some clarity on your goals here. As you know, this is a 'cutting' cycle, but you mention looking for water retention and are considering drol/dbol...

In the meantime, couple thoughts:

- Prop and tren doses are good
- You may want to consider caber or prami with tren
- I would run the winny 7-12 at 50mg/ed minimum
- HCG should be run during cycle, and not with PCT
- Add clomid to your PCT regimine

I don't know my BF but if I was to guess I would say around 10-12%

As far as goals they really aren't set in stone, while I want as much mass as possible this will be wrapping up at the start of spring I would like to not be carrying excess BF for summer, single now and it has been a hell of a last couple years I guess I would like to just have a nice physique for summer.

Yes I know the drol and bol will bloat me but I have never had winny, wouldn't that eliminate the water retention from the start if the start of the cycle or is that a bit useless given the fast acting qualities of the prop and tren?

I would always start HCG a week or so after my last injection of cyp, being as this is prop when would you start HCG? I was going to run arimidex for my AI.

Clomid and nolva for PCT? In the past I would use clomid during the cycle with just Nolvadex and HCG for PCT, arimidex works better as and AI so what would you suggest?

[DADDYDBOL]

The only thing I would add to the above from Igi is that I would drop the winny all together. I have found you just don'r really see any true benefit from Var or Winny during a tren cycle. Not enough to piss with, especially as dry as Winny makes joints !

I was thinking of dropping the winny as well

[Lunk1]

I don't know my BF but if I was to guess I would say around 10-12%

As far as goals they really aren't set in stone, while I want as much mass as possible this will be wrapping up at the start of spring I would like to not be carrying excess BF for summer, single now and it has been a hell of a last couple years I guess I would like to just have a nice physique for summer.

Yes I know the drol and bol will bloat me but I have never had winny, wouldn't that eliminate the water retention from the start if the start of the cycle or is that a bit useless given the fast acting qualities of the prop and tren ?

I would always start HCG a week or so after my last injection of cyp, being as this is prop when would you start HCG? I was going to run arimidex for my AI.

Clomid and nolva for PCT? In the past I would use clomid during the cycle with just Nolvadex and HCG for PCT, arimidex works better as and AI so what would you suggest?

Clomid and Nolva are both SERMS not AI's and should be used during the PCT not during cycle.
HCG will keep the boys healthy and promote easier recovery during PCT. Start it when as soon as you start the cycle then stop at last pin. No reason to keep things suppressed while trying to PCT!

[DADDYDBOL]

Igifuno, I am hoping for little water retention, this will be my first go around with prop and tren but I was always under the impression that using HCG for long periods of time wasn't good. Great for PCT but not ideal for 10 weeks plus use.

[Igifuno]

I don't know my BF but if I was to guess I would say around 10-12% Good bf% to start a cycle

As far as goals they really aren't set in stone, while I want as much mass as possible this will be wrapping up at the start of spring I would like to not be carrying excess BF for summer, single now and it has been a hell of a last couple years I guess I would like to just have a nice physique for summer. So I think you want to 'cut'

Yes I know the drol and bol will bloat me but I have never had winny, wouldn't that eliminate the water retention from the start if the start of the cycle or is that a bit useless given the fast acting qualities of the prop and tren ? No, winny would not 'counteract' the effects of any other steroid. In fact, you may not get (or I should say see) the full effect of the winny if you're bloated from drol or dbol

I would always start HCG a week or so after my last injection of cyp, being as this is prop when would you start HCG? I was going to run arimidex for my AI. Again, HCG should be run during cycle to minimize testicular atrophy. Don't run it during PCT as it continues to suppress your system, and you're trying to 'restart' your system.

Clomid and nolva for PCT? In the past I would use clomid during the cycle with just Nolvadex and HCG for PCT, arimidex works better as and AI so what would you suggest?

Run your AI, arimidex during cycle, and Clomid/Nolv for PCT like this:

Clomid: 100/50/50/50
Nolv: 40/20/20/20

[DADDYDBOL]

Clomid and Nolva are both SERMS not AI's and should be used during the PCT not during cycle.
HCG will keep the boys healthy and promote easier recovery during PCT. Start it when as soon as you start the cycle then stop at last pin. No reason to keep things suppressed while trying to PCT!

So 500iu ED during the entire cycle? And how would you dose the clomid and nolva during PCT?

I swear I read somewhere you could shut down something if you ran HCG for long periods but its been years since I read that and cannot remember the details.

Thanks Lunk

[DADDYDBOL]

Sounds good Igi, thanks for your help bro.

[DADDYDBOL]

Igi would you dose the HCG at 500iu ED or EOD?

[Lunk1]

Igi would you dose the HCG at 500iu ED or EOD?

HCG 250iu 2X per week is plenty. HCG is suppressive so that's why it should be stopped when the cycle stops, before PCT.

HCG: Why you should use it on-cycle only & how to prepare your hCG for injections

[DADDYDBOL]

Yeah I was just reading the profile on it, thanks Lunk and Igi, appreciate the clarification.

[Euroholic]

Look at this chart dbol for your bf.

[Igifuno]

Igifuno, I am hoping for little water retention, this will be my first go around with prop and tren but I was always under the impression that using HCG for long periods of time wasn't good. Great for PCT but not ideal for 10 weeks plus use.

Good read for you on HCG : courtesty of Austinite
HCG: Why you should use it on-cycle only & how to prepare your hCG for injections

If you're specifically looking for water retention, you may want to just lose the winny, and then proceed like this:

1-4 dbol : 40mg/ed
1-12 prop: 200mg/eod
1-12 (could also do 1-10) tren : 100mg/eod

You'll be fine running HCG for 8 weeks so if you're running 12 weeks cycle, start your HCG on week 4

So 500iu ED during the entire cycle? And how would you dose the clomid and nolva during PCT?

I swear I read somewhere you could shut down something if you ran HCG for long periods but its been years since I read that and cannot remember the details.

Thanks Lunk

What Lunk said

[DADDYDBOL]

HCG: Why you should use it on-cycle only & how to prepare your hCG for injections

good article, its been a few years but everyone around here back in the day would use HCG those few days between the last injection and the start of PCT

thanks again!

[DADDYDBOL]

Look at this chart dbol for your bf.

between 15 and 20% say around 17%

thanks bro!

[Igifuno]

good article, its been a few years but everyone around here back in the day would use HCG those few days between the last injection and the start of PCT

thanks again!

There is a lot that's changed over the years and so much that's been discovered that just bunks some 'old' info. Bro-science was law back in the day, and science science has taken its rightful place

[DADDYDBOL]

Good read for you on HCG : courtesty of Austinite
HCG: Why you should use it on-cycle only & how to prepare your hCG for injections

If you're specifically looking for water retention, you may want to just lose the winny, and then proceed like this:

1-4 dbol : 40mg/ed
1-12 prop: 200mg/eod
1-12 (could also do 1-10) tren : 100mg/eod

You'll be fine running HCG for 8 weeks so if you're running 12 weeks cycle, start your HCG on week 4



What Lunk said

thanks Igi, no looking for little bloat just always used an oral to kick off my cycles. I am actually just going to drop the winny and run prop and tren along with AI and HCG

thanks again! seems like there has been a lot of confusion over the use of HCG, it says IM injections are fine as well which I didn't know so I could actually mix it with 2 of my weekly injections correct? I was going to inject the test and tren in one syringe so could I also mix the HCG on the 1st and 3rd injection?

[Igifuno]

thanks Igi, no looking for little bloat just always used an oral to kick off my cycles. I am actually just going to drop the winny and run prop and tren along with AI and HCG I like it

thanks again! seems like there has been a lot of confusion over the use of HCG, it says IM injections are fine as well which I didn't know so I could actually mix it with 2 of my weekly injections correct? I was going to inject the test and tren in one syringe so could I also mix the HCG on the 1st and 3rd injection?I know many who do it, I personally don't like to mix water and oil but yes, you can do it and I'm not aware of any reason why you can't. Sub-q is easier for me and I don't even feel it.

....

[Lunk1]

....

There are some benefits I believe of running the HCG on off days from the AAS to help wit fluctuation hormone levels.

[DADDYDBOL]

Thanks guys I really appreciate the help, I almost didn't post anything since I thought I had it down especially my PCT, good thing I did.

[DADDYDBOL]

There are some benefits I believe of running the HCG on off days from the AAS to help wit fluctuation hormone levels.

I may do that, reading some articles now on HCG , I may just do it sub between test/tren injections

Thanks Lunk for the help!

[Igifuno]

Thanks guys I really appreciate the help, I almost didn't post anything since I thought I had it down especially my PCT, good thing I did.

Hell yeah brother.. that's why we're all here. It's an on-going, never ending learning process.

[XxAndreaxX]

IMO, if you take AI, you shouldn't bloat even with enanthate . I found out, enanthate esters are much much better than short. cheaper mg x mg, no PIP and easier to pin. on the other side, short ester are easier to handle. if you are natty 10-12% bf, it means that you are more in the ectomorph area, I'd go with test enanthate, replace winstrol with masteron enanthate, and due its your first run with tren , then tren A. your dosing is correct, would start tren lower thou, because you'll get stuck fast. start at 37.5mgs ED and taper up, if you feel fine. you should have nightsweats every night, if they stop, it means you got stuck, and tren is no longer working and you have to up dosage. test will make you big, tren will make you lean, and masteron will give you a hard look, masteron is my favourite compound. I'd start it at least at week 2, or later, you have to be very lean to see its magic. last advice, you don't know how tren reacts on your body and its a pretty long run, I'd take cabergoline on hand, and fit it in your PCT

[fit2bOld]

IMO, if you take AI, you shouldn't bloat even with enanthate. I found out, enanthate esters are much much better than short. cheaper mg x mg, no PIP and easier to pin. on the other side, short ester are easier to handle. if you are natty 10-12% bf, it means that you are more in the ectomorph area, I'd go with test enanthate, replace winstrol with masteron enanthate, and due its your first run with tren, then tren A. your dosing is correct, would start tren lower thou, because you'll get stuck fast. start at 37.5mgs ED and taper up, if you feel fine. you should have nightsweats every night, if they stop, it means you got stuck, and tren is no longer working and you have to up dosage. test will make you big, tren will make you lean, and masteron will give you a hard look, masteron is my favourite compound. I'd start it at least at week 2, or later, you have to be very lean to see its magic. last advice, you don't know how tren reacts on your body and its a pretty long run, I'd take cabergoline on hand, and fit it in your PCT

And your wrote all this for what purpose?
Igi and lunk have given daddy quality info. And this does nothing but add confusion to everything.
Sometimes there is no need to add to a thread.

[XxAndreaxX]

from his stats, this dude is very similar to me, I can give him my personal experience with those compounds, then, he will decide what to do.