Should I hop on gear or continue cut naturally?

[Jonathan12]

Stats

AGE: 29
Weight: 185lbs
Height: 6'0
BF%: 13-15 %
Work out experience: >10 years
Cycle experience: NONE


Long story short.. I've completed 95% my transformation without any assistance, BUT the last 5% is driving me nuts!!! I was patient enough and took me a good 4-5 years to get where I am now..I am quite aesthetic and look in a really good condition with a tank top on, but when the shirt's off, the abdomen area is still pathetic.. I'm thinking of jumping on cycle to get a perfect midsection to finally finish my transformation. I really wanna get ready for a photo-shoot asap, but the abdomen area is quite demotivating.


I do have the right discipline, mindset, work ethic etc ..BUT the last bit is driving me insane. Will hopping on a cycle bridge the gap faster? OR is it gonna be the same DIET, eat clean, be-patient theory? How long will it take ideally for me to get to 8-9%BF and shredded? ..MAKE NOTE: I have been seeing good results with the current diet/workout routine.. But its just ...Ughh SLOW. Seems like I have run out of patience, I dunno :/

I'm cutting at 2k calories at the moment. An hour of cardio everyday, and lifting very Heavy .I'm a mesomorph, and i have no trouble maintaining muscle. I've been fine tuning my diet in the past 6 months and been very relentless with it.

My diet consists of chicken, eggs,oats, cottage cheese, peanut butter, veggies, whole wheat wraps, A tiny amount of brown sugar..I eat my carbs pre and post workout mainly.

What are your thoughts?



BEFORE


NOW

[Reiid13]

Awsome job !
Certainly have a base to juice
See what the Pro's say !

[zaggahamma]

great work bro

also bump for pros

best of luck either way

[Jonathan12]

Awsome job !
Certainly have a base to juice
See what the Pro's say !

Thanks man! Appreciate it

Questions:

Will TEST ONLY cycle (since it will be my first) help me cut down to single digit if I get my diet perfect?


Ive never" Bulked" all these years, ( phase where I completely dedicated to eating a surplus ).. I gained muscle because my diet was kinda sloppy and i happened to go over my maintenace...however, I was very consistent with my workout and my diet was fairly clean..Just the occasional cheats.


Should I start with test only for now, and add in a cutting compound in the 2nd or 3rd cycle? Will that help?

OR

Should I just lower my cals and be more patient?

[Reiid13]

Thanks man! Appreciate it

Questions:

Will TEST ONLY cycle (since it will be my first) help me cut down to single digit if I get my diet perfect?



Ive never" Bulked" all these years, ( phase where I completely dedicated to eating a surplus ).. I gained muscle because my diet was kinda sloppy and i happened to go over my maintenace...however, I was very consistent with my workout and my diet was fairly clean..Just the occasional cheats.

Should I start with test only for now, and add in a cutting compound in the 2nd or 3rd cycle? Will that help?

OR

Should I just lower my cals and be more patient?

Hmmm test can help you loose weight , and obvo add muscle , but if your doing a photo shoot etc ... 'Bulking' and test you are obvo prone to adding on some fat . You could of course add some t3 or clenbuterol to loose weight aswell . But its tricky because I presume you want to add some muscle and look ripped .

When do you want to achieve your goal ?

If you need to look ripped for in 2 months ( or whenever photo shoot is) personally id stay natty

Otherwise if you have the time , you know your stuff , the dedication ... Personally id step it up a notch , got a good base to work on

Edit - id really wait to hear words of wisdom from a Pro , they'll have a better idea what to do

[Jonathan12]

Hmmm test can help you loose weight , and obvo add muscle , but if your doing a photo shoot etc ... 'Bulking' and test you are obvo prone to adding on some fat . You could of course add some t3 or clenbuterol to loose weight aswell . But its tricky because I presume you want to add some muscle and look ripped .

When do you want to achieve your goal ?

If you need to look ripped for in 2 months ( or whenever photo shoot is) personally id stay natty

Otherwise if you have the time , you know your stuff , the dedication ... Personally id step it up a notch , got a good base to work on

Edit - id really wait to hear words of wisdom from a Pro , they'll have a better idea what to do

Thanks for your response.

I wouldn't mind some muscle on me but shedding weight is my top priority.

Since I waited years to get here... I would give myself say 6 months time... Because the shoot has been always procrastinating.. and it's been very demotivating at the same time... I always give myself 2-3 months, making good progress, but it's JUST NOT THERE.. if u know what I mean.

I'm pretty solid everywhere else.. My wheels are good too.. but goddammit, my midsection is making life miserable seriously.

Also, when u stay stepping up a notch, is it in terms of getting more relentless on my diet and workouts OR you're telling me to hop on gear?

[Reiid13]

Thanks for your response.

I wouldn't mind some muscle on me but shedding weight is my top priority.

Since I waited years to get here... I would give myself say 6 months time... Because the shoot has been always procrastinating.. and it's been very demotivating at the same time... I always give myself 2-3 months, making good progress, but it's JUST NOT THERE.. if u know what I mean.

I'm pretty solid everywhere else.. My wheels are good too.. but goddammit, my midsection is making life miserable seriously.

Also, when u stay stepping up a notch, is it in terms of getting more relentless on my diet and workouts OR you're telling me to hop on gear?

Well Personally if I was you and I had six months , I would ( and im really not trying to influence you here)

I would run test- e , anavar and look at adding some t3 ( could even just go test and t3) then after that go on a cutting diet and use clenbuterol , that way im adding muscle , but meltinggggg fat .

I have never touched any AAS , and I know its recommended to only run test as first cycle , but im just going on what I personally would do .

[fit2bOld]

Keep going naturally if cutting is the goal. Slow and steady wins the race and your results are easily maintained when achieved.

[kelkel]

Keep going naturally if cutting is the goal. Slow and steady wins the race and your results are easily maintained when achieved.

This ^. If you're goals are losing more BF then focus more on nutrition and cardio. Analyze your training style as well. Visit the Nutrition Forum and post up your diet plan and goals there. The vets will help you achieve them. With your stated goals it's really not worth going through HPTA shutdown and all that follows, imho.

[Jonathan12]

Thanks for the reply everyone.

This ^. If you're goals are losing more BF then focus more on nutrition and cardio. Analyze your training style as well. Visit the Nutrition Forum and post up your diet plan and goals there. The vets will help you achieve them. With your stated goals it's really not worth going through HPTA shutdown and all that follows, imho.

Alright. I shall head over to the Nutrition section and see what they have to say about my diet. If you think it's not worth it to go through the HPTA shutdown, then I shall do as you say.

[XxAndreaxX]

Like someone said, it depends on your goals. If you see, its really impossible to get rid of the extra fat, without loosing tons of muscle, you could stay naturally by taking some clen, although don’t know how much it could help alone. I never used it by myself, but read that HGH at antiaging doses like 2UI x day do miracles in therms of fat, and you’d still be somehow natural. But as soon as you discontinue the use, you’ll gain the fat back again.

[bass]

I wouldn't recommend clen or anything at this stage. based on what he has achieved naturally I'd stick with what your doing but change your diet as mentioned above. you simply hit a plateau, and changing diet may help stimulate far burning again. also consider Austinite's fat loss stack, it may help you.

Austinite's Fat Loss Protocol using Over the Counter Products.

[ghettoboyd]

This ^. If you're goals are losing more BF then focus more on nutrition and cardio. Analyze your training style as well. Visit the Nutrition Forum and post up your diet plan and goals there. The vets will help you achieve them. With your stated goals it's really not worth going through HPTA shutdown and all that follows, imho.

this^^^^diet and cardio is what you need right now for your goals...using testosterone will not burn fat it will help you keep your muscle during a calorie deficit...you are not too far off from your goal to begin with imho so I would put more focus on your diet which is the real issue for why you haven't reached your goal yet...let the pros in the diet section help you sort it out....good luck...

[Back In Black]

^^^agreed. Post that diet up in the right section. But all that activity and only 2000cals then something is amiss. Im hoping there is no metabolic damage but it sounds likely. When you post your diet in the correct section tell us how long you have been eating at your current caloric intake.

[Jonathan12]

Thanks so much for contributing everyone.

I shall post my diet in the Nutrition section and go from there. I guess I will continue to stay natty and start juicing once I'm in the single digit bf .

Let's say I have plateaued and done metabolic damage... How do I reverse metabolic damage?

Looks like I have a lot of Layne Norton reading to do.

Thanks again everyone.

[Cuz]

since you said you dont care about muscle waste and you are natty, might as well use diet and training to get as lean as possible. im on phone right now so I dont have time for a lomg response, honestly without some sort of gear your gonna look skinny imo, your already at a 2k cal daily diet, dont know what ur carbs and fats look like, and your doing an hour of cardio a day. which is alot, your diet would have to be the best it could be for your personal metabolism and need to do more cardio am/pm to get to that shredddd look. its a tuff call man, I mean your a natty. it would be a no brainer for me, but im not in your situation. I want to hold on to as much mass as possible, and that.takes gear plain and simple.

like I said, tuff call. you only have a short time to work with, if you didn't have the pressure of a deadline it would be much easier to call it

[king6 II]

Props to you on your transformation. I would natty cut a little while long until you reach your goal then look at AAS. But you are pretty lean now too, so AAS is not completely out of the question.

[magic32]

At first I was all set to be the dissenting view, and but after seeing so many Vets in the 'Con' column I started to look more closely at why they weren't 'Pro', because everything looked to be in order. Then, after actually clicking on your pics to maximize them, I concurred with the fellas. I like and commend everything you've done thus far, and actually at 29 years old, you've done a good job naturally for the past 4+ years, you're a solid 185 lbs (what we call a legit weight for 6' and below), and your bf looks be in the mid-teens, all which makes you exactly the type of person gear and fat-burning compounds are for...the dedicated, diligent, hard working natural guy (based on your 'Before' pic) who is ready to take his training to next level, 'next' being anabolic and lipolytic compounds, so if you wanted to run AAS now, it wouldn't be a very bad idea. However, it also wouldn't be optimal!

And that's what the fellas are saying, we all believe that you'd greatly benefit from improving your training IQ (which we all do every day through reading and conversing) and as cited in the other posts readjusting your diet. Nevertheless, my suggestion is that you undergo a paradigm shift (embrace a different way of thinking), and it won't be easy because you've done a great job of historically conditioning your mind in one direction.

Essentially, I recommend substituting your fat-burning emphasis, with a muscle building one. I realize this sounds somewhat counterintuitive, but believe it or not the two ideologies are not mutually exclusive, because as you gain more muscle your body will become a better fat-burning machine. As I alluded to earlier, the thumbnails of your pics look really good, but the actual size pics betray a severe lack of muscular foundation, which the trained eye would earnestly attribute to your fat-burning mentality. In essence, by sticking to this type of diet for so long you've stunted your muscular development. The human body simply cannot flourish on a pre-contest diet, because this diet is a tool and like most tools it is temporarily specific and therefore ideally suited for peaking at given point in time such as to compete, display, or otherwise present one's best form. It is my contention that you'd see exponential improvement in your physique, if you actually began to feed rather than starve your body/muscles. Thus, instead of treating them as the enemy, embrace healthy carbs (beans, potatoes, whole grains & cereals, etc.). Concordantly, you will feel better, stronger, and faster...you'll train longer and harder, and you'll grow. But most importantly you'll start to provide the missing nutrients that carbs provide the body, and in so doing you'll become healthier!

Vets and pros cycle carbs to make sure they get what they need, plus they are less susceptible to muscle depletion/stunting/weakness because anabolics protect against this. Even when they compete in multiple shows a year and undertake several or extended pre-contest diets and experience continuous anabolic states (due to cruising), they still don't completely subsist on pre-contest diets.

Thanks for PM'ing me, I'm glad to have weighed in on this topic, and best to you.

[evander87]

OP what leans me out the best is HIIT cardio. 25minutes tops. And honestly the real world sprints are the very best. Get outside mark off 40 yards get a round timer. Sprint back and forth in the 40 yards for 30 seconds with a minute rest starting for 10 rounds. Work your way up to 30 on 30 off for 20 rounds. I like the 40 year dash because the change in direction really works the leg muscles instead of sprinting straight for the "on" time. Depending on my lifting split I can only get three HIIT sessions in per week. And thats because I've been doing them. Most people will see a huge benefit with as few as two HIIT sessions. This is all assuming you have a correct diet in place. Too little calories and you wont have fuel to really give 100% in the sprints. Too much calories and you'll burn the food instead of the bodyfat.

Also another good fat burning method is to reduce the rest between sets, when lifting, to less than one minute.