Oral Andriol Cycle advice- PCT and Hair loss?

[kazn]

Hi all:

Would appreciated experienced member to comment on the cycle I am about to do as below :

Before I start please refrain from commenting on how cost ineffective Andriol is ...etc. I've specifically chosen this because I am not after hugh gains quickly and would prefer something milder (had a cycle of Sustanon before and had to cut it short due to side effects of depression, hair loss, extreme fatigue)

I will be taking Andriol 160 mg morning and 80 mg at night ED for 6 weeks

For hair loss thinking of adding 1mg Finasteride daily while and 1 month after finishing the cycle (but not sure if this is necessary?, or might hinder gains?)

PCT - Any recommendation? I've got Nolva, Clomid, Arimidex available - don't mind which (cost not an issue). Dose and length of taking it? (Should I take during as well?)

I've been gymming for the last 5 years. Ecto, and stats: 175cm, 77 kg, 17% bf. Diet is sorted for bulking

Appreciate your help

[MuscleInk]

Hi all:

Would appreciated experienced member to comment on the cycle I am about to do as below :

Before I start please refrain from commenting on how cost ineffective Andriol is ...etc. I've specifically chosen this because I am not after hugh gains quickly and would prefer something milder (had a cycle of Sustanon before and had to cut it short due to side effects of depression, hair loss, extreme fatigue)

I will be taking Andriol 160 mg morning and 80 mg at night ED for 6 weeks

For hair loss thinking of adding 1mg Finasteride daily while and 1 month after finishing the cycle (but not sure if this is necessary?, or might hinder gains?)

PCT - Any recommendation? I've got Nolva, Clomid, Arimidex available - don't mind which (cost not an issue). Dose and length of taking it? (Should I take during as well?)

I've been gymming for the last 5 years. Ecto, and stats: 175cm, 77 kg, 17% bf. Diet is sorted for bulking

Appreciate your help

I'm interested to see what others have to say. I've never used the compound and I've heard/read the bioavailability is quite low. Of the limited material on andriol that I have read, 240mg per day is apparently very low and the growth yield is minimal unless doses in the range of 350-400mg/d are used.

Arimidex is an AI used ON cycle not PCT.

Curious.....if you ran Sustanon before, what were your AI and PCT (nolva & clomid) doses? They would be about the same for this cycle.

[king6 II]

What was your PCT when you ran sust? My concern is if you are asking how to run a PCT now, you most likely ran an improper one with the sust cycle which could have something to do with the side effects. The side effects you were describing sound more like symptoms of low test, did you experience those sides while on cycle? Test is test, I can't image the sides would be any different, other than lower dose may equal lower sides. Again I suspect your first cycle may have been run improperly. As far as hair loss you can run 1mg of fina per day however, if you are prone to hair loss I would recommend staying on fina permanently.

[MuscleInk]

What was your PCT when you ran sust? My concern is if you are asking how to run a PCT now, you most likely ran an improper one with the sust cycle which could have something to do with the side effects. The side effects you were describing sound more like symptoms of low test, did you experience those sides while on cycle? Test is test, I can't image the sides would be any different, other than lower dose may equal lower sides. Again I suspect your first cycle may have been run improperly. As far as hair loss you can run 1mg of fina per day however, if you are prone to hair loss I would recommend staying on fina permanently.

^^^ great minds think alike!

Good point about propecia. I had this very conversation with a member over text messaging a few days ago. Many people don't realize that there is a potential rebound effect from using propecia - once you stop you may ACCELERATE hair loss. Propecia blocks the reduction of testosterone to DHT by blocking the 5a reductase enzyme. When you discontinue propecia, the body can compensate by increasing 5a reductase activity for a short period leading to MORE hair loss.

.....and propecia can also increase risks of impotence, low libido, and gyno!

[kazn]

What was your PCT when you ran sust? My concern is if you are asking how to run a PCT now, you most likely ran an improper one with the sust cycle which could have something to do with the side effects. The side effects you were describing sound more like symptoms of low test, did you experience those sides while on cycle? Test is test, I can't image the sides would be any different, other than lower dose may equal lower sides. Again I suspect your first cycle may have been run improperly. As far as hair loss you can run 1mg of fina per day however, if you are prone to hair loss I would recommend staying on fina permanently.

Thanks for the reply. With the previous cycle I was on 250mg IM Sustanon Twice a week, and while on it although I felt great (Strength and sexually) I was very very tired (Had to take extra caffeine to stop me from falling asleep in the gym, and can barely focus at work). And yes you are quite right the hair loss / depression issue came after and not during the cycle.

At the time I used Clomid (50mg tapered to 25mg) and Nolva (40mg tapered down to 20mg) as PCT over 2 weeks.

I guess my concern is that being a mild dose of Andriol and short duration can the PCT be at a lower dose or would you still recommend full PCT just in case? which and at what dose?

Thanks in advance

[MuscleInk]

Thanks for the reply. With the previous cycle I was on 250mg IM Sustanon Twice a week, and while on it although I felt great (Strength and sexually) I was very very tired (Had to take extra caffeine to stop me from falling asleep in the gym, and can barely focus at work). And yes you are quite right the hair loss / depression issue came after and not during the cycle.

At the time I used Clomid (50mg tapered to 25mg) and Nolva (40mg tapered down to 20mg) as PCT over 2 weeks.

I guess my concern is that being a mild dose of Andriol and short duration can the PCT be at a lower dose or would you still recommend full PCT just in case? which and at what dose?

Thanks in advance

The fatigue and depression were quite likely mediated by estrogen. It's entirely possible to be asymptomatic with elevated estrogen for awhile until the effects are observed symptomatically. Another possibility was that your testosterone remained suppressed after your PCT.

Hormones play a number of vital roles in the human body. They regulate sleep, mood, appetite, cognition, sex drive, metabolic activity, digestion, immunity, and more. Anytime you take anabolics and upset the delicate balance of your natural hormones, there will always be changes to one or more of the functions mentioned. It's to be expected.

I'd still run a basic PCT that you used for your Sustanon. Does your cycle plan include HCG?

What is your AI of choice and dose for this cycle?

[Lunk1]

A friend of mine is on this for TRT but I have no idea his dose. I cant imagine the amount that would need to be consumed to equal a decent cycle. As was mentioned already. Test is test and it makes no difference how it's administered. It will affect you the same (dose dependent).

[MuscleInk]

A friend of mine is on this for TRT but I have no idea his dose. I cant imagine the amount that would need to be consumed to equal a decent cycle. As was mentioned already. Test is test and it makes no difference how it's administered. It will affect you the same (dose dependent).

From what I've read, doses under 400mg/wk don't produce much results as the bioavailability is supposedly lower than injectable esters. I'm hoping some of the other vets will offer input.

[Lunk1]

From what I've read, doses under 400mg/wk don't produce much results as the bioavailability is supposedly lower than injectable esters. I'm hoping some of the other vets will offer input.

Seems like a lot of strain on the liver to produce the same numbers as a 500mg EW injectable cycle

[MuscleInk]

Seems like a lot of strain on the liver to produce the same numbers as a 500mg EW injectable cycle

Andriol is supposedly suspended in oil but capsulated for oral administration. This allows it to survive first pass hepatic metabolism long enough to be absorbed lymphatically.

I agree however, regardless of its preparation, I'd still chose a direct injectable.

[kazn]

The fatigue and depression were quite likely mediated by estrogen. It's entirely possible to be asymptomatic with elevated estrogen for awhile until the effects are observed symptomatically. Another possibility was that your testosterone remained suppressed after your PCT.

Hormones play a number of vital roles in the human body. They regulate sleep, mood, appetite, cognition, sex drive, metabolic activity, digestion, immunity, and more. Anytime you take anabolics and upset the delicate balance of your natural hormones, there will always be changes to one or more of the functions mentioned. It's to be expected.

I'd still run a basic PCT that you used for your Sustanon. Does your cycle plan include HCG?

What is your AI of choice and dose for this cycle?

I am only planning on using oral Andriol, was really put off by the last experience. Haven't tried using AI before but do have Letrozole and Arimidex handy - perhaps I need to give it a go this time to stop the estrogen related side effects - do you think this is worth doing? and at what dose would you recommend.

The reason I asked about PCT is that some places I read says you don't need one (For oral Andriol), but I would rather not take the risk

I do think the Andriol dose is on the lower end but I want to start low and adjust slowly.

[MuscleInk]

I am only planning on using oral Andriol, was really put off by the last experience. Haven't tried using AI before but do have Letrozole and Arimidex handy - perhaps I need to give it a go this time to stop the estrogen related side effects - do you think this is worth doing? and at what dose would you recommend.

The reason I asked about PCT is that some places I read says you don't need one (For oral Andriol), but I would rather not take the risk

I do think the Andriol dose is on the lower end but I want to start low and adjust slowly.

Some of the problems you had before were likely due to not using an AI. Elevated estrogens are not only dangerous to heart and prostate health but can cause a number of constitutional effects/changes in your body.

Use the adex. The letro is far too harsh and at the doses of andriol you are considering, you'll likely crash your E. I'd start with 0.25mg every other day or every third day. The half life of adex is about 50 hours.

Clomid and nolva for PCT but if your concerned about doses, run your clomid and nolva conservatively at 50/25/25/25 and 20/20/20/20.

I highly recommend blood work at the end of this cycle. You've likely messed a few things up on the last one and for health and peace of mind, do yourself an enormous favor and get your blood work done after this cycle.

[king6 II]

^^^ great minds think alike!

Good point about propecia. I had this very conversation with a member over text messaging a few days ago. Many people don't realize that there is a potential rebound effect from using propecia - once you stop you may ACCELERATE hair loss. Propecia blocks the reduction of testosterone to DHT by blocking the 5a reductase enzyme. When you discontinue propecia, the body can compensate by increasing 5a reductase activity for a short period leading to MORE hair loss.

.....and propecia can also increase risks of impotence, low libido, and gyno!

Yes we do!

The one piece of advice I would give to anyone who has a predisposition to male pattern baldness is if you take fin during a cycle, is to stay on it. I never experienced any hair loss during cycles however, about a year after my last cycle I did experience some MPB to the point where I started Propecia and have been on it for 4 years now. I never experienced any MPB directly from the use of AAS however, it is possible that it did speed up my genetic predisposition. Thankfully I have never experienced any of the negative sides from Propecia, so I guess it is a matter of how bad you want to keep your hair.

[kazn]

Some of the problems you had before were likely due to not using an AI. Elevated estrogens are not only dangerous to heart and prostate health but can cause a number of constitutional effects/changes in your body.

Use the adex. The letro is far too harsh and at the doses of andriol you are considering, you'll likely crash your E. I'd start with 0.25mg every other day or every third day. The half life of adex is about 50 hours.

Clomid and nolva for PCT but if your concerned about doses, run your clomid and nolva conservatively at 50/25/25/25 and 20/20/20/20.

I highly recommend blood work at the end of this cycle. You've likely messed a few things up on the last one and for health and peace of mind, do yourself an enormous favor and get your blood work done after this cycle.

Thanks that's great advice. Will post back experience

[safa66]

how's your andriol cycle?