B12 while on Cycle? Why?

**MODO** · 02-06-2014, 05:28 PM

Hey guys,

So, one of the problems with high testosterone and/or estrogen is "thick blood", or high hematocrit... to the point that one of the stickies suggested giving blood donations to reduce hct. If this is the case, then why are so many people supplementing with injectable vitamin B12? Wouldn't that just fuel the fire?

**austinite** · 02-06-2014, 05:49 PM

Why not? Did someone tell you that B12 generates red cells?

**Ashop** · 02-06-2014, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by MODO

Hey guys,

So, one of the problems with high testosterone and/or estrogen is "thick blood", or high hematocrit... to the point that one of the stickies suggested giving blood donations to reduce hct. If this is the case, then why are so many people supplementing with injectable vitamin B12? Wouldn't that just fuel the fire?

I dont think it would hurt you in any way. I love B12 for appetite,,energy and mood.

**MODO** · 02-06-2014, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

Why not? Did someone tell you that B12 generates red cells?

B12 in involved in RBC synthesis, so much so that a lack of it can lead to anemia.

So it seems to me that if you create an environment in your body (using steroids ) where your hemocrit is increasing on its own to a harmful level, then why would you want to add in extra RBC precursors?

**MuscleInk** · 02-06-2014, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by MODO

B12 in involved in RBC synthesis, so much so that a lack of it can lead to anemia.

So it seems to me that if you create an environment in your body (using steroids) where your hemocrit is increasing on its own to a harmful level, then why would you want to add in extra RBC precursors?

Interesting question. I'm aware of studies looking at the impact of B12 deficiencies on hematopoiesis and other disorders but few have specifically looked at B12 toxicity and its impact on hematopoiesis. It has an extremely low toxicity and the human body does not produce it so we must obtain it from food sources. I'm not so sure though, that a sweeping statement about hematopoietic risks while cycling is entirely appropriate. B12 serves a number of important neurological functions so minimizing sources of B12 would be ill-advised.

There are many factors that have to be considered as well. Antihistamines and Proton Pump Inhibitors (and possibly oral contraceptives - aka HORMONES) will prevent absorption of dietary but not supplemented B12. Experienced users will tell you that anabolics do eventually lead to digestion problems and many people medicate with H2 antagonists or PPIs which will block absorption of B12. Supplementing with an oral or injectable B12 in this cohort would be strongly recommended.

I think it's a good point to raise however. If someone is cycling and supplementing with B12, it behooves them to have blood work done to make sure the phlebotomy parameters aren't too far outside normal range. Then again, every anabolic user should be having BW done irrespective of B12 supplementation.

**austinite** · 02-06-2014, 07:50 PM

B12's presence is required for RBC production. It will not cause excess RBC. I use 1000 mcg daily on cycle and never have issues. No one on earth will ever have an issue with supplementing b12. No one on earth will ever take "too much" b12. Ever. Ever.

**MuscleInk** · 02-06-2014, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

B12's presence is required for RBC production. It will not cause excess RBC. I use 1000 mcg daily on cycle and never have issues. No one on earth will ever have an issue with supplementing b12. No one on earth will ever take "too much" b12. Ever. Ever.

But what of those among us who are not of this planet???

I've taken as much as 5000mcg daily and didn't see any changes in my blood work in 30 days.

**austinite** · 02-06-2014, 08:21 PM

lol. I'm happy to take 20k daily just to prove it.

I'll start measuring by the gallon

**MODO** · 02-06-2014, 09:38 PM

Yeah MuscleInk, it would be nice to a see a study done on B12 effects on steroid users... but good luck sneaking that past the ethics board.

I guess I'll just take your guys' word for it based on your experiences... I think I'll keep it in the single digits though, austinite, haha!

The reason I'm worried about it is on my first cycle I had a problem with hypertension, so I'm trying to be extra cautious in preventing it this time. Stupid Canada... you can't order bloodwork without a physician's order up here. Well not in any lab I've been to anyway.

**MuscleInk** · 02-06-2014, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by MODO

Yeah MuscleInk, it would be nice to a see a study done on B12 effects on steroid users... but good luck sneaking that past the ethics board.

I guess I'll just take your guys' word for it based on your experiences... I think I'll keep it in the single digits though, austinite, haha!

The reason I'm worried about it is on my first cycle I had a problem with hypertension, so I'm trying to be extra cautious in preventing it this time. Stupid Canada... you can't order bloodwork without a physician's order up here. Well not in any lab I've been to anyway.

Are you taking anything for HTN? Either OTC or Rx? Gear messes with cholesterol, RBC, often causes hypertension, and so on (I know you know this stuff). If you can manage your HTN with OTC supps, that would be my first approach before Rx meds.

I'm running 500mcg B12 currently but cruising on test (except for my 200mg PWO suspensions).

**MODO** · 02-07-2014, 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Are you taking anything for HTN? Either OTC or Rx? Gear messes with cholesterol, RBC, often causes hypertension, and so on (I know you know this stuff). If you can manage your HTN with OTC supps, that would be my first approach before Rx meds. I'm running 500mcg B12 currently but cruising on test (except for my 200mg PWO suspensions).

Luckily I don't normally have HTN so no Rx, but I did have HTN on cycle... and my next cycle is starting soon. I recently started taking some OTC supps to help with lipids and will keep on it through pct at minimum.

Also gonna work harder to keep a clean diet and do cardio this time. I have good genetics and don't really retain fat ever, so unfortunately that has led me to ignore cardio in the past!

But yeah, as for the B12, I guess I will stay on it. Probably not a huge concern there.

**MuscleInk** · 02-07-2014, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by MODO

Luckily I don't normally have HTN so no Rx, but I did have HTN on cycle... and my next cycle is starting soon. I recently started taking some OTC supps to help with lipids and will keep on it through pct at minimum.

Also gonna work harder to keep a clean diet and do cardio this time. I have good genetics and don't really retain fat ever, so unfortunately that has led me to ignore cardio in the past!

But yeah, as for the B12, I guess I will stay on it. Probably not a huge concern there.

Anything that promotes vasodilation will help keep BP down. Nitric oxide products, arginine, hawthorn berry and others will help keep BP low.

**leewil1** · 02-07-2014, 01:46 AM

I've read they Taurine is used in patients who have had heart attacks and who have high blood pressure, it is also good for reducing calf and back pumps.