Debating two approaches for my first cycle - Would LOVE input..

[--->>405<<---]

*TRAINING*
-I train 3x/wk in the morning, M,W,F.

Hold on, i thought u said u only train once per week for less than an hour????

[--->>405<<---]

1) For a former fat-kid natural who spends an a hour/wk or less in the gym, I look incredible. Sorry if superior methods / new knowledge scares you.

Which one is it??

[kronik420]

this bs still going...

[tarmyg]

Amazing thread. Sticky please!

~T

[kelkel]

I'm curious Nuss, can you name one top body builder or fitness athlete that uses this "trainers" methods?

"Bio

2:43 PM | Posted by Martin Berkhan




My name is Martin Berkhan and I work as a nutritional consultant, magazine writer and personal trainer.

This site is dedicated to my approach to intermittent fasting, which shatters peoples preconceived notions on how to eat for muscle gain and fat loss.

I am also working on something about something that will appear any moment between today and infinity. Some assembly of words, in unknown shape or form, a presentation of sorts. It will uncover some Method and Practice, the purpose of which is to banish corpulence, strengthen the flesh, and liven up the spirit."


Love that last part in bold. Pretty deep.....on the edge of my seat in anticipation. Sounds like Scientology!

[gearbox]

Kel- want to join with me. Maybe we can learn about "IF" I have never heard of this diet approach. I'm hooked.

let's work on recruiting 405 and Aust next!

[nussnussbaby]

Hold on, i thought u said u only train once per week for less than an hour????

3x a week for about 20 minutes there, boss

Never used the word "once a week".

Training the entire body at once would be f'n retarded

[nussnussbaby]

....

[nussnussbaby]

I'm curious Nuss, can you name one top body builder or fitness athlete that uses this "trainers" methods?

"Bio

2:43 PM | Posted by Martin Berkhan




My name is Martin Berkhan and I work as a nutritional consultant, magazine writer and personal trainer.

This site is dedicated to my approach to intermittent fasting, which shatters peoples preconceived notions on how to eat for muscle gain and fat loss.

I am also working on something about something that will appear any moment between today and infinity. Some assembly of words, in unknown shape or form, a presentation of sorts. It will uncover some Method and Practice, the purpose of which is to banish corpulence, strengthen the flesh, and liven up the spirit."


Love that last part in bold. Pretty deep.....on the edge of my seat in anticipation. Sounds like Scientology!

I'm curious kelkel, can you name one top body-builder or fitness athlete that doesn't use gear?? It's a program for natural athletes, boss

[king6 II]

When I logged on this morning as saw this thread already has 3 pages since yesterday.....I knew it had to be good!!

[kelkel]

I'm curious kelkel, can you name one top body-builder or fitness athlete that doesn't use gear?? It's a program for natural athletes, boss

Ton's of fitness athletes sure. Top BB-ers, hell no. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is a steroid site and you're here asking about your first cycle. Just start your cycle and quit micromanaging. I'm sure you'll be just fine if you follow the first cycle thread. You do have a great build Nuss and if your nutrition and training are as on point as you say you will love the results. Welcome to the dark side. I would genuinely like to see your progress.

[nussnussbaby]

Ton's of fitness athletes sure. Top BB-ers, hell no. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is a steroid site and you're here asking about your first cycle. Just start your cycle and quit micromanaging. I'm sure you'll be just fine if you follow the first cycle thread. You do have a great build Nuss and if your nutrition and training are as on point as you say you will love the results. Welcome to the dark side. I would genuinely like to see your progress.

Thanks dude. I know I dove in very roughly here. But I really appreciate that.

Maybe I'll just plan on getting a little bit below 170 before starting.

[gearbox]

Ton's of fitness athletes sure. Top BB-ers, hell no. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is a steroid site and you're here asking about your first cycle. Just start your cycle and quit micromanaging. I'm sure you'll be just fine if you follow the first cycle thread. You do have a great build Nuss and if your nutrition and training are as on point as you say you will love the results. Welcome to the dark side. I would genuinely like to see your progress.

The patience you have shown in many threads is remarkable.

Op- the two you have chose are not much different in the long run. I would do the first so you can up the calories while on cycle and get some muscle gains and not have to worry so much about a little fat cause you will he super lean.

[--->>405<<---]

3x a week for about 20 minutes there, boss

Never used the word "once a week".

Training the entire body at once would be f'n retarded

Let me guess, you use bowflex

[Capebuffalo]

#2 is the answer

#1 you won't gain 5 lbs of pure muscle in 12 weeks

Are we done now?

[king6 II]

Let me guess, you use bowflex

Step into my office.....cuz your fvcking fired!!!

[nussnussbaby]

The patience you have shown in many threads is remarkable.

Op- the two you have chose are not much different in the long run. I would do the first so you can up the calories while on cycle and get some muscle gains and not have to worry so much about a little fat cause you will he super lean.

Okay. Thanks for the input. That's sort of where I've been leaning as well..

[nussnussbaby]

Let me guess, you use bowflex

Alright. That's it. How much do you weigh and what are your core one-rep max numbers? I don't care if you lie about it. Because I don't care what you do. But know that I am not lying. And that I've gotten my results naturally, with an hour a week in the gym, and in less than a year and a half of serious training, at 26 yrs old.

Me:
185lbs
Bench Press: 450lbs (2.4xbw)
Squat: 490lbs (2.6xbw)
Deadlift: 480lbs (2.6xbw)
Chin-up: 185lbs (bw) + 115lbs = 300lbs. (1.6xbw)

You:
?
?
?
?
?

[nussnussbaby]

#2 is the answer

#1 you won't gain 5 lbs of pure muscle in 12 weeks

Are we done now?

Thanks for the input man.

Do you think I'd end up closer to my ultimate goal --- 170lbs, as close to six% as possible --- if I cut even lower? Started my first cycle at, say, 160lbs?

[gearbox]

Thanks for the input man.

Do you think I'd end up closer to my ultimate goal --- 170lbs, as close to six% as possible --- if I cut even lower? Started my first cycle at, say, 160lbs?

Honestly if it was myself I would cut while on cycle cause I would need a calorie deficit of some kind and cardio. So I would use aas to hold onto as much muscle as I already have.

And Kel said trt. Which is testosterone replacement therapy. It's prescribed by your doctor usually older guys who are producing low low numbers. They give you a decent dose of test so your levels are always within a good range. No nothing like a cycle. Weekly trt can range from 90-200 a week is what I have heard guys getting from their doctors.

[nussnussbaby]

Honestly if it was myself I would cut while on cycle cause I would need a calorie deficit of some kind and cardio. So I would use aas to hold onto as much muscle as I already have.

And Kel said trt. Which is testosterone replacement therapy. It's prescribed by your doctor usually older guys who are producing low low numbers. They give you a decent dose of test so your levels are always within a good range. No nothing like a cycle. Weekly trt can range from 90-200 a week is what I have heard guys getting from their doctors.

That was my initial thought as well. Cut from 190 to 170 on AAS, hoping to retain almost all muscle mass (*though no one with a perfectly controlled calorie intake needs cardio to burn fat). I was discouraged from doing that by ppl on this site.

Thanks for explaining the TRT thing!

[gearbox]

That was my initial thought as well. Cut from 190 to 170 on AAS, hoping to retain almost all muscle mass (*though no one with a perfectly controlled calorie intake needs cardio to burn fat). I was discouraged from doing that by ppl on this site.

Thanks for explaining the TRT thing!

the above cardio fat comment is debatable depending on someone's goals and body type. We all don't react the same with a high carb vs a high fat or low carb and low fat. We as Individuals should already know what works for us and what doesn't.

[nussnussbaby]

the above cardio fat comment is debatable depending on someone's goals and body type. We all don't react the same with a high carb vs a high fat or low carb and low fat. We as Individuals should already know what works for us and what doesn't.

Amen.

[michael30]

Nuss i have a question. If all of us obviously dont know how to diet or train why would you want advice from us on gear?

[David LoPan]

1) Not knowing much about the compounds at this point, I'm roughly planning to just go w/ the recommended beginner's cycle. But as I learn more I will adjust that. Perhaps tomorrow I will post a working plan and can begin a back and forth about it (it is getting late!).

2) I've been sitting at 190lbs for about 3 months now. And I'm beginning that slow cut right now. So we're on the exact same page there lol.

You posted this same type of question and run up a number of people comments. One was Looking for some *EXPERT* advice on planning a first cycle (to cut) which is the same crap as this one and the other post was I'd like to hear some thoughts on RE-COMP cycles.[/B]

Get off the internet and get to the gym. Lose the weight however you want. You dont want to listen to the advice you have been given so like Nike says "JUST DO IT", something other than take up peoples time who you are not going to list to.

I see this is what you are planning:
I'm planning on going with the basic recommended first cycle:
- Week 1 to 12: Testosterone enanthate @ 250 mg every 3.5 days (500mg/week total)
- Week 1 to 12: hCG @ 250 iu every 3.5 days (500 iu/week total)
- Week 1 to 14: Arimidex @ 0.25mg every other day (From day 2 up until PCT starts)
- Week 14 to 18: Clomid @ 75/50/50/50
- Week 14 to 18: Nolvadex @ 40/20/20/20
*600 mg of N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) daily.

I want to lose 20lbs in 12wks, so I'm going to need to lose about 1.67lbs/wk, so I'm going to eat at an 845 cal daily deficit; 5,845 cal weekly deficit (3500 + 2/3rds of 3500).

[David LoPan]

Crap I see you have been posting here on this subject, all of your other threads, since the first part of January. You should be posting results of your results not asking the same questions again and AGAIN.

[tarmyg]

Always going overboard I have now gone through every single post on Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health and I at first thought he had some solid arguments. I then, like any overly curious person, started to look just in general what this guy have been posting and ran into this Intermittent Fasting, and the Rabid Rantings of Martin Berkhan « AnthonyColpo and I do think Martin is being overly optimistic about his methods.

Now, regardless of science, if you are following Martin and it is working for you, why change it? Is his methods completely supported by modern science, hardly. But like anything, if you stick to it, are dedicated and are having success with your method of choice who am I to criticize? Is it optimum? Doubt anyone could ever answer that with 100% certainty.

Good luck!
~T

[Black]

I read over a bit of that website he posted. I wouldn't do it just for the sheer resentment I have towards the blogger, Martin whatever. He sounds like a super arrogant prick. I couldn't even finish reading it.

Therefore, between his douche-ness and the OP's attitude, I can only assume intermittent fasting (aka eating when you feel like it) will turn you into an a$$hole.

And if Martin would somehow read this, I'd like to see him raw deadlift 600lbs, 4 times. I don't even think he can hold the weight.

Also OP, why don't you just ask your buddy Martin for steroid advice?

[--->>405<<---]

Alright. That's it. How much do you weigh and what are your core one-rep max numbers? I don't care if you lie about it. Because I don't care what you do. But know that I am not lying. And that I've gotten my results naturally, with an hour a week in the gym, and in less than a year and a half of serious training, at 26 yrs old.

Me:
185lbs
Bench Press: 450lbs (2.4xbw)
Squat: 490lbs (2.6xbw)
Deadlift: 480lbs (2.6xbw)
Chin-up: 185lbs (bw) + 115lbs = 300lbs. (1.6xbw)

You:
?
?
?
?
?

LOL.. i weigh 190lbs in the avatar at 69"

personally i think ur numbers are bullshit. lets see a better shot of your legs because from what i can see in the pic there is no way ur squatting 490 with those legs. i rep 495 on squat and ill give u a pic of what a leg that squats that kind of weight is supposed to look like.

the last pic is me 2 years ago. to see where ive come from.

also u claim to be in and out in less than an hour and then all of a sudden change that to being an hour over the course of 3 days?? lifting the kind of numbers u claim it would take more than 20 mins to warm up to your working sets, not to mention u claim to take 10-minute breaks between work sets.

and who the hell does a 1 rep max on chin up??

go blow smoke up someone elses ass cuz im not buying it. oh and i, too, have not run a steroid cycle yet and im 39years old.

[ickythump]

I gotta say, when nuss first started posting yes he was confident in his routine but he wasn't so defensively offensive about everything, every thread turned into why he couldn't do what he wanted to do (I even facilitated that in one) but I don't think that's the best way to go about it. This thread got the attention because he directly challenged common beliefs imho opinion, and did so in a very cocky way, which probably lead to the arguments. So I must say the story of nussnuss seems to be that of misunderstanding...

.....I'll never claim to be an expert, but nuss I think your best bet is clen and t3 to get you to the body fat you want while using test to keep your muscle, obv in a caloric deficiency. that's all I have, nothing on if I think you'll get there stay that way etc just from what I've read if I had no one but me and on an island and what I've read so far, no outside input, that is what I would do

[Gunsablazin]

Big goals eat train sleep then do it again

[nussnussbaby]

LOL.. i weigh 190lbs in the avatar at 69"

personally i think ur numbers are bullshit. lets see a better shot of your legs because from what i can see in the pic there is no way ur squatting 490 with those legs. i rep 495 on squat and ill give u a pic of what a leg that squats that kind of weight is supposed to look like.

the last pic is me 2 years ago. to see where ive come from.

also u claim to be in and out in less than an hour and then all of a sudden change that to being an hour over the course of 3 days?? lifting the kind of numbers u claim it would take more than 20 mins to warm up to your working sets, not to mention u claim to take 10-minute breaks between work sets.

and who the hell does a 1 rep max on chin up??

go blow smoke up someone elses ass cuz im not buying it. oh and i, too, have not run a steroid cycle yet and im 39years old.

1) Squatting is about much more than leg size. It's about ass size/strength, first and foremost. And also lower-back strength, balance, athleticism, etc. Like I said, I don't care if you believe the numbers or not. But I can tell you that they are, and that I achieved them through my "bullshit" methods.

2) I never said "in and out in an hour". I said an hour or less total a week. I'll come in, do a warm-up set of whatever exercise I'm doing. Load the weight. Do my first set. Wait ten minutes. Do my second set. Then I leave. It's actually closer to 12 or so minutes than 20. But I do deadlifts and chins the same day, so that's longer.

3) Who does one-rep max chin-ups? People who know how to train biceps.

4) Congratulations on your transformation! Really, great work.

[nussnussbaby]

I read over a bit of that website he posted. I wouldn't do it just for the sheer resentment I have towards the blogger, Martin whatever. He sounds like a super arrogant prick. I couldn't even finish reading it.

Therefore, between his douche-ness and the OP's attitude, I can only assume intermittent fasting (aka eating when you feel like it) will turn you into an a$$hole.

And if Martin would somehow read this, I'd like to see him raw deadlift 600lbs, 4 times. I don't even think he can hold the weight.

Also OP, why don't you just ask your buddy Martin for steroid advice?

1) He doesn't use gear or give advice on it.

2) Here's a video of him deadlifting 600lbs, 4 times: Deadlifting 600 lbs x 4 on Leangains Intermittent Fasting - YouTube

3) He is an arrogant prick.

[nussnussbaby]

Always going overboard I have now gone through every single post on Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health and I at first thought he had some solid arguments. I then, like any overly curious person, started to look just in general what this guy have been posting and ran into this Intermittent Fasting, and the Rabid Rantings of Martin Berkhan « AnthonyColpo and I do think Martin is being overly optimistic about his methods.

Now, regardless of science, if you are following Martin and it is working for you, why change it? Is his methods completely supported by modern science, hardly. But like anything, if you stick to it, are dedicated and are having success with your method of choice who am I to criticize? Is it optimum? Doubt anyone could ever answer that with 100% certainty.

Good luck!
~T

I'm honestly not sure the eating time-frame makes that big of a difference myself. It's the training routine I think is astonishing. And thanks.

[nussnussbaby]

Crap I see you have been posting here on this subject, all of your other threads, since the first part of January. You should be posting results of your results not asking the same questions again and AGAIN.

Two things. 1) Someone needs to be a member here for about a month and a half before the wheels go into motion. 2) It's good to maintain weight for about 3 months before cutting.

[nussnussbaby]

You posted this same type of question and run up a number of people comments. One was Looking for some *EXPERT* advice on planning a first cycle (to cut) which is the same crap as this one and the other post was I'd like to hear some thoughts on RE-COMP cycles.[/B]

Get off the internet and get to the gym. Lose the weight however you want. You dont want to listen to the advice you have been given so like Nike says "JUST DO IT", something other than take up peoples time who you are not going to list to.

I see this is what you are planning:
I'm planning on going with the basic recommended first cycle:
- Week 1 to 12: Testosterone enanthate @ 250 mg every 3.5 days (500mg/week total)
- Week 1 to 12: hCG @ 250 iu every 3.5 days (500 iu/week total)
- Week 1 to 14: Arimidex @ 0.25mg every other day (From day 2 up until PCT starts)
- Week 14 to 18: Clomid @ 75/50/50/50
- Week 14 to 18: Nolvadex @ 40/20/20/20
*600 mg of N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) daily.

I want to lose 20lbs in 12wks, so I'm going to need to lose about 1.67lbs/wk, so I'm going to eat at an 845 cal daily deficit; 5,845 cal weekly deficit (3500 + 2/3rds of 3500).

I posted one thread asking about a cutting cycle.

One about a cutting vs. recomp cycle.

This about recomp vs. slight gain cycle.

I fail to see the issue with that.

[nussnussbaby]

Nuss i have a question. If all of us obviously dont know how to diet or train why would you want advice from us on gear?

Because I have zero experience with gear.

We all have experience training and dieting.

Get it?

[nussnussbaby]

I gotta say, when nuss first started posting yes he was confident in his routine but he wasn't so defensively offensive about everything, every thread turned into why he couldn't do what he wanted to do (I even facilitated that in one) but I don't think that's the best way to go about it. This thread got the attention because he directly challenged common beliefs imho opinion, and did so in a very cocky way, which probably lead to the arguments. So I must say the story of nussnuss seems to be that of misunderstanding...

.....I'll never claim to be an expert, but nuss I think your best bet is clen and t3 to get you to the body fat you want while using test to keep your muscle, obv in a caloric deficiency. that's all I have, nothing on if I think you'll get there stay that way etc just from what I've read if I had no one but me and on an island and what I've read so far, no outside input, that is what I would do

Man. Idk what to say. My goal is close to six%. The possibility of reaching and maintaining six% is challenged each time I post a question about reaching my goal. I respond by telling how I reached and maintained six% myself ~ by using leangains. And then everything turns into a huge fight about leangains, as opposed to a discussion about how I use gear.

I apologize to everyone if I came off as cocky or arrogant about it. I just believe very strongly in it. I've tried a lot of different workout approaches over the years. The Arnold routines, the Phil Heath's, dozens of physique BB'ers' and fitness models'. Maybe it's just particular to me. But the leangains approach has rendered everything else I've ever done laughable.

Thank you very much for your input on my cycle. I'm still kind of developing how I want to time my cycle, so I haven't gotten into the compound combinations yet. But I've bookmarked your post for later reference.

[nussnussbaby]

Alright. So now that everyone's gotten their shots in about how I train, and I've learned about how to conduct myself here.. let's get back to the gear discussion.

Now, I've been told by some that a person's first cycle is kind of a special thing. With fresh receptors, I've been told it's the best opportunity you'll ever have to put on a ton of lean muscle. That's sort of the main reason I've been leaning against a cutting, or even a recomp cycle. My thinking now is, "Hey.. maybe I should cut down to 5 or 10 lbs below my ideal weight before doing this thing?" Let myself put on some real muscle.

What do you guys think? Cutting, recomp or slight gain cycle? Which is gonna get me closest to my goals?

[nussnussbaby]

Here's something that might be helpful, in terms of setting personal goals when thinking about bf percentages and what not. Steve Reeves is my ideal physique. I know I'm never going to look like him. But it's good to set high goals. What do you guys think his bf% was in his prime?