proposed cycle

[musclestack]

Stats:
29 year old male
5'9"
188 lbs.
13% bf
Training History: Off and on since I was 16 years old, but consistently for the past 3 1/2 years.
Cycle History: 4 cycles when I was younger, consisting of Test, Winny, Tren A, Dbol (not all in the same cycle), but haven't ran AAS in over 6 years.

Proposed cycle:

Week 1-6: Test Prop @ 150mg/EOD

PCT:

Clomid @ 100/50/50/50
Nolva @ 40/40/20/20/
Arimidex @ 6.5mg/day for first 2 weeks of PCT

In the past, I have had severe depression/anxiety symptoms from Clomid, so I will have enough Nolva on hand just in case I need to drop the Clomid and do a Nolva only PCT. Another member suggested that it was just my estrogen levels that were out of control and not the Clomid causing the symptoms, so I was advised to take Arimidex at 6.5mg/day to combat the estrogen.

You'll notice that the cycle is very short. I would like to give this approach a try to, hopefully, make as much gains off of a short-estered compound as possible, run PCT, then get back on sooner (once bloodwork is back to normal). I'm hoping this will allow me to keep more gains and keep building with each cycle, rather than having the yo-yo effect of gaining then losing as I have with my longer (10-12 week) cycles I've run in the past. It will be trial and error.

Also, I have a powerlifting competition (bench only) coming up, and I was wondering if it would be advisable to add something that would be synergistic to the Prop? I realize that the Test, alone, will shut me down, but please keep in mind that my ultimate goal here is to get back 'on' as soon as possible after this short cycle, so if by adding another compound, it would shut me down harder and require a longer recovery period, I would rather just stick to running the Prop alone.

Advice/suggestions?

Thanks!

[clarky.]

Stats:
29 year old male
5'9"
188 lbs.
13% bf
Training History: Off and on since I was 16 years old, but consistently for the past 3 1/2 years.
Cycle History: 4 cycles when I was younger, consisting of Test, Winny, Tren A, Dbol (not all in the same cycle), but haven't ran AAS in over 6 years.

Proposed cycle:

Week 1-6: Test Prop @ 150mg/EOD

PCT:

Clomid @ 100/50/50/50
Nolva @ 40/40/20/20/
Arimidex @ 6.5mg/day for first 2 weeks of PCT

In the past, I have had severe depression/anxiety symptoms from Clomid, so I will have enough Nolva on hand just in case I need to drop the Clomid and do a Nolva only PCT. Another member suggested that it was just my estrogen levels that were out of control and not the Clomid causing the symptoms, so I was advised to take Arimidex at 6.5mg/day to combat the estrogen.

You'll notice that the cycle is very short. I would like to give this approach a try to, hopefully, make as much gains off of a short-estered compound as possible, run PCT, then get back on sooner (once bloodwork is back to normal). I'm hoping this will allow me to keep more gains and keep building with each cycle, rather than having the yo-yo effect of gaining then losing as I have with my longer (10-12 week) cycles I've run in the past. It will be trial and error.

Also, I have a powerlifting competition (bench only) coming up, and I was wondering if it would be advisable to add something that would be synergistic to the Prop? I realize that the Test, alone, will shut me down, but please keep in mind that my ultimate goal here is to get back 'on' as soon as possible after this short cycle, so if by adding another compound, it would shut me down harder and require a longer recovery period, I would rather just stick to running the Prop alone.

Advice/suggestions?

Thanks!

Ok ms 6wk cycle of prop would be ok but could you run it to 8wks ??. What about hcg ?you need to run a AI on cycle it would start at .25 eod as for pct if clomid is that bad why run a high dose.

You do not use a AI in pct serms only and certainly not 6.5mg wk they are only 1mg tabs so you would be taking 6& half a day.

Food and training will determine what you keep not short or long cycles you have been here since 05 and this is pretty basic stuff mate.

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html

[musclestack]

Ok ms 6wk cycle of prop would be ok but could you run it to 8wks ??. What about hcg ?you need to run a AI on cycle it would start at .25 eod as for pct if clomid is that bad why run a high dose.

You do not use a AI in pct serms only and certainly not 6.5mg wk they are only 1mg tabs so you would be taking 6& half a day.

Food and training will determine what you keep not short or long cycles you have been here since 05 and this is pretty basic stuff mate.

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html

Thank you for the feedback, especially regarding where to run the AI. And I have thought about reducing the clomid to 50/50/50/50, rather than starting with 100 on the first week.

Why do you feel that I should run it to 8 weeks? Just curious. I've found that on all of my cycles, I have always stalled after the 6 week mark, regardless of increasing calories or not; and I do not want to increase the dose of AAS either.

I will have to disagree with you on your comment that food and training are the only factors to whether or not you keep your gains. It is a known fact that we all have a genetic limit. Once the gains made from AAS go (and they will at some point after discontinuing for a long enough period of time), you will always return to your genetic limit. I am simply trying to retain as much as I can of the AAS gains by limiting my time in the 'off' season (hence the 6 week cycle). Not trying to start a big debate here, but there are many threads here that cover this topic.

Again, I really appreciate your feedback. Thank you.

MS

[Capebuffalo]

I have always stalled after the 6 week mark, regardless of increasing calories or not; and I do not want to increase

Something isn't right about that statement. What test did you use? Was tren a or e?

[musclestack]

I have always stalled after the 6 week mark, regardless of increasing calories or not; and I do not want to increase

Something isn't right about that statement. What test did you use? Was tren a or e?

Tren A. Never used Tren E.

[Capebuffalo]

Tren A. Never used Tren E.

What test have you used?

[clarky.]

Your not going to hit genetic limit with a 6wk prop run are you ? I was talking about after cycles and on cycle food and training will determine what you keep and of course a good pct. A standard pct would be clomid 75,50,50,50 nolva 40,20,20,20 i would really use hcg on cycle it will make pct a lot easier.

[musclestack]

What test have you used?

Sustanon 250 for first 2 cycles, then once with Test E. I would start making size/strength gains from the Sust within the first 2 weeks, then stall out after the 6 week mark. With Test E, I started making gains in around week 3, then stalled out at 7 weeks. I should note that, with the Test E, is when I ran Tren A, and I ran the Tren week 1-7.

[musclestack]

Your not going to hit genetic limit with a 6wk prop run are you ? I was talking about after cycles and on cycle food and training will determine what you keep and of course a good pct. A standard pct would be clomid 75,50,50,50 nolva 40,20,20,20 i would really use hcg on cycle it will make pct a lot easier.

What I'm saying is, I have been at 188-190 lbs for the past 2 years, experimenting with different training regiments and increasing calories. In short, I'm saying that, although I don't feel like I'm at my genetic limit, I am not far off. I'm using AAS to get past my genetic limit. If I wasn't anywhere close to it, there would be no point in running AAS, in my honest opinion. I do agree with you that running PCT is an absolute must in order, not only to hold on to as much gains for as long as possible, but also to return natural testosterone to normal levels for one's own health and well-being.

And thanks for the advice on the HCG. After reading that, I will incorporate it into my cycle.

[clarky.]

What I'm saying is, I have been at 188-190 lbs for the past 2 years, experimenting with different training regiments and increasing calories. In short, I'm saying that, although I don't feel like I'm at my genetic limit, I am not far off. I'm using AAS to get past my genetic limit. If I wasn't anywhere close to it, there would be no point in running AAS, in my honest opinion. I do agree with you that running PCT is an absolute must in order, not only to hold on to as much gains for as long as possible, but also to return natural testosterone to normal levels for one's own health and well-being.

And thanks for the advice on the HCG. After reading that, I will incorporate it into my cycle.

Ok buddy good luck.

[Capebuffalo]

Sustanon 250 for first 2 cycles, then once with Test E. I would start making size/strength gains from the Sust within the first 2 weeks, then stall out after the 6 week mark. With Test E, I started making gains in around week 3, then stalled out at 7 weeks. I should note that, with the Test E, is when I ran Tren A, and I ran the Tren week 1-7.

Test e doesn't even begin to kick in until week 5-6. Sus earlier because of prop but you couldn't stall with the longer esters just starting to kick in.

And I would listen to what Clarky is saying. Fyi

[musclestack]

Test e doesn't even begin to kick in until week 5-6. Sus earlier because of prop but you couldn't stall with the longer esters just starting to kick in.

And I would listen to what Clarky is saying. Fyi

So, you would run the cycle longer? If my gains do end up stalling after week 6, should I still continue? Or what would you suggest? I can only speak from personal experience, and I know other members have run into the same situation (Pinnacle comes to mind). But I'm still open to your advice if I can prevent my gains from halting.

And yes, I agree with Clarky on almost everything he said. I will be taking his advice on the HCG/PCT protocol, along with running the Arimidex at his suggested dosage during the cycle.

[Capebuffalo]

So, you would run the cycle longer? If my gains do end up stalling after week 6, should I still continue? Or what would you suggest? I can only speak from personal experience, and I know other members have run into the same situation (Pinnacle comes to mind). But I'm still open to your advice if I can prevent my gains from halting.

And yes, I agree with Clarky on almost everything he said. I will be taking his advice on the HCG/PCT protocol, along with running the Arimidex at his suggested dosage during the cycle.

I personally would run prop 8 weeks. I still don't know how you can peak when the test hasn't kicked in but hey.

[musclestack]

I personally would run prop 8 weeks. I still don't know how you can peak when the test hasn't kicked in but hey.

Me neither. What week do you see gains coming to a halt when you're on? On the bright side, the gains I make during weeks 2-6(or 7) are always great!

[Capebuffalo]

Me neither. What week do you see gains coming to a halt when you're on? On the bright side, the gains I make during weeks 2-6(or 7) are always great!

10-11-12. But they never come to a complete halt. They may not be as dramatic as weeks 8-9-10 but I still squeeze some out.

[musclestack]

10-11-12. But they never come to a complete halt. They may not be as dramatic as weeks 8-9-10 but I still squeeze some out.

Did you change anything up in those weeks to keep gains coming?

[Capebuffalo]

Did you change anything up in those weeks to keep gains coming?

More food and more intense training

[Euroholic]

Nothing wrong with 6 weeks of prop op. get it over with pct then get back on again in a few months. Better chance for recovery.

[musclestack]

Nothing wrong with 6 weeks of prop op. get it over with pct then get back on again in a few months. Better chance for recovery.

Thanks Euroholic.

[gold43]

In the past, I have had severe depression/anxiety symptoms from Clomid, so I will have enough Nolva on hand just in case I need to drop the Clomid and do a Nolva only PCT. Another member suggested that it was just my estrogen levels that were out of control and not the Clomid causing the symptoms, so I was advised to take Arimidex at 6.5mg/day to combat the estrogen.

Did you cycle with Adex? Some people have high E2 rebound from Adex on cycle. You should use Aromasin at 6.25 ED during PCT instead of Adex. That will control your E2 rebound better.

[musclestack]

Did you cycle with Adex? Some people have high E2 rebound from Adex on cycle. You should use Aromasin at 6.25 ED during PCT instead of Adex. That will control your E2 rebound better.

Thanks for the advice, Gold. But I thought that AIs should be stopped right before PCT?? Is this wrong? I will be running 12.5 mg Aromasin while on cycle.

[gold43]

Thanks for the advice, Gold. But I thought that AIs should be stopped right before PCT?? Is this wrong? I will be running 12.5 mg Aromasin while on cycle.

Week 1-6: Test Prop @ 150mg/EOD

PCT:

Clomid @ 100/50/50/50
Nolva @ 40/40/20/20/
Arimidex @ 6.5mg/day for first 2 weeks of PCT

In the past, I have had severe depression/anxiety symptoms from Clomid, so I will have enough Nolva on hand just in case I need to drop the Clomid and do a Nolva only PCT. Another member suggested that it was just my estrogen levels that were out of control and not the Clomid causing the symptoms, so I was advised to take Arimidex at 6.5mg/day to combat the estrogen.

That was only offered as one of the many possibilities for you feeling like shit in pct. I was asking if you ran Adex on cycle?? Only blood work will tell you what's wrong. Running adex or aro at a normal dosage in pct will not crash your estro level at all. Letro would, but neither of them will. Adex works as essentially an estrogen blocker. Its binds to the receptor preventing test from aromatizing into estrogen. Once you discontinue use however, it releases itself from that receptor site and can cause whats known as estro rebound or backlash. Basically you can get flooded with too much estrogen at once. Many guys make it all the way through their cycles fine, only to have e2 issues during or post pct due to adex use. Aromasin is different. It operates off a method known as suicide inhibition, meaning it binds to the receptor, kills itself and takes the receptor with it. No chance of estro rebound. This is why running aromasin during pct is highly recommended. Even more so if your on cycle ai was adex. This is somewhat of a new method, but its not brand new. Guys have been doing it this way for the past few years. But there are many old school guys who will tell you otherwise. Ultimately, the proof is in the blood work.

[redz]

Something is wrong if you say gains stopped at week 7 with test e. most dramatic effects for enanthate ester steroids for me are week 8-10. You may not have adjusted your diet properly either you can't put on muscle without increasing cals through a cycle.