To Dbol or not

[GSXRvi6]

Previous cycles:
Test Cyp
Test Cyp
Test Cyp + low dose Tren

Stats:
Been lifting on and off for 20 years, I've been after it seriously for the past 3 years
35 yo (or 36, I can't remember)
Bodyfat, too high to be cycling but it's coming down and I'm going to do this anyway
I weight 231lbs my bench and squat are both in the 300's assumption is 1RM is 340lbs based on current performance, no clue for squats, in the 300's up there somewhere, I don't squat heavy, if that data is worth anything, full reps, no bouncing or bull shit.
I was 223lbs before this last cycle, my estrogen went out of control and I blew up to 235lbs so the water is coming off.

This last run I was going for 12 weeks, bailed out early due to RBC, the plan was to self bleed but as it turns out I'm a *****, I clogged the tube and almost passed out, it appears I can not handle seeing my own blood, and I can only donate every 8 weeks so that is not an option. (so I won't be able to post follow up blood work to the estrogen problem I had, no point since I bailed on that cycle on week 9).

My original plan was to run two cycles a year, tren when it's cold and deca when it's hot 12 weeks each, I'm not ok with just popping aspirin when my RBC goes up so I'm cutting my cycles back to 8 weeks, I can keep my RBC/Iron in range with an 8 week cycle (I like my heart and kidneys and stuff).

so I have on hand:

Test Cyp
Test Enth
Dbol
Deca

I'm using UGL for blasting and my latest blood work is showing that my UGL test is a bit under dosed, so here is my new 8 week plan but I'm not sold on it yet:

100mg Test Cyp 1-infinity 2x per week
500mg Test Enth 1-8 2x per week
30mg Dbol 1-3 ED
.3mg Anastrazole EOD while using Dbol
.25mg Anastrazole EOD after dropping dbol (I get sore joints easy)
350mg NPP 1-8 (50mg ED)
HCG 500IU/wk 1-infinity
.5mg Caber 2X/wk 1-9

400mg CoQ10 ED
2500mg fish oil ED
5mg Cialis ED
600m NAC ED
10,000 IU Vitamin A ED (EOD while on Dbol, ED after dropping dbol)
5 grams of B5 ED
50mg Zinc ED
900mg Saw ED
250mg Magnesium ED
5mg Taruine ED

So originally, I was going to run 400mg/wk of deca for 12 weeks, therefore kickstart with dbol (I have 0 experience with orals), now that I'm switching to 8 week runs I'm switching to NPP, however I already have deca and dbol.

So I'm thinking about adding the dbol in with the next run anyway, I mean I have it I'm not going to throw it out or give it away, and I have deca.

NPP is a fairly short ester so I won't have the delay in build up like I would have with deca, if I didn't have the Dbol on hand I wouldn't consider using it with this cycle, no need, but I have it.. sooooo, why not?

I'm thinking about adding the deca to my TRT, 50mg per week for my old man joints, but I am undecided on this as well.

Thoughts?

[mgambino310]

Previous cycles:
Test Cyp
Test Cyp
Test Cyp + low dose Tren

Stats:
Been lifting on and off for 20 years, I've been after it seriously for the past 3 years
35 yo (or 36, I can't remember)
Bodyfat, too high to be cycling but it's coming down and I'm going to do this anyway
I weight 231lbs my bench and squat are both in the 300's assumption is 1RM is 340lbs based on current performance, no clue for squats, in the 300's up there somewhere, I don't squat heavy, if that data is worth anything, full reps, no bouncing or bull shit.
I was 223lbs before this last cycle, my estrogen went out of control and I blew up to 235lbs so the water is coming off.

This last run I was going for 12 weeks, bailed out early due to RBC, the plan was to self bleed but as it turns out I'm a *****, I clogged the tube and almost past out, it appears I can not handle seeing my own blood, and I can only donate every 8 weeks so that is not an option. (so I won't be able to post follow up blood work to the estrogen problem I had, no point since I bailed on that cycle on week 9).

My original plan was to run two cycles a year, tren when it's cold and deca when it's hot 12 weeks each, I'm not ok with just popping aspirin when my RBC goes up so I'm cutting my cycles back to 8 weeks, I can keep my RBC/Iron in range with an 8 week cycle (I like my heart and kidneys and stuff).

so I have on hand:

Test Cyp
Test Enth
Dbol
Deca

I'm using UGL for blasting and my latest blood work is showing that my UGL test is a bit under dosed, so here is my new 8 week plan but I'm not sold on it yet:

100mg Test Cyp 1-infinity 2x per week
500mg Test Enth 1-8 2x per week
30mg Dbol 1-3 ED
.3mg Anastrazole EOD while using Dbol
.25mg Anastrazole EOD after dropping dbol (I get sore joints easy)
350mg NPP 1-8 (50mg ED)
HCG 500IU/wk 1-infinity
.5mg Caber 2X/wk 1-9

400mg CoQ10 ED
2500mg fish oil ED
5mg Cialis ED
600m NAC ED
10,000 IU Vitamin A ED (EOD while on Dbol, ED after dropping dbol)
5 grams of B5 ED
50mg Zinc ED
900mg Saw ED
250mg Magnesium ED
5mg Taruine ED

So originally, I was going to run 400mg/wk of deca for 12 weeks, therefore kickstart with dbol (I have 0 experience with orals), now that I'm switching to 8 week runs I'm switching to NPP, however I already have deca and dbol.

So I'm thinking about adding the dbol in with the next run anyway, I mean I have it I'm not going to throw it out or give it away, and I have deca.

NPP is a fairly short ester so I won't have the delay in build up like I would have with deca, if I didn't have the Dbol on hand I wouldn't consider using it with this cycle, no need, but I have it.. sooooo, why not?

I'm thinking about adding the deca to my TRT, 50mg per week for my old man joints, but I am undecided on this as well.

Thoughts?

Dbol + high bf questioning Your decision to use aas in general?

[GSXRvi6]

Dbol + high bf questioning Your decision to use aas in general?

Fair question but I plan on using AAS anyway as I have been, I'm old enough and understand the risks.

If Dbol should be avoided due to the bloat on top of not being skinny I can understand that as a solid reason to avoid that particular compound.

[austinite]

Bloat is the least of your concerns, GSXR. Bloat won't really put you in the hospital. A blood clot will, however, which is at high risk when cycling at high BF, but hey, you might show up to the ER with a nice new pair of boobies considering the massive amount of barely manageable aromatase enzymes you carry.

Guns don't kill, people do... yada yada, I'm sure you've heard it.

Just be careful, brother.

[GSXRvi6]

Bloat is the least of your concerns, GSXR. Bloat won't really put you in the hospital. A blood clot will, however, which is at high risk when cycling at high BF, but hey, you might show up to the ER with a nice new pair of boobies considering the massive amount of barely manageable aromatase enzymes you carry.

Guns don't kill, people do... yada yada, I'm sure you've heard it.

Just be careful, brother.

I've ran blood work on every cycle and I've had to actually back off on my Anastrazol, .25 was dropping my estrogen to the bottom of the range and making my joints sore, since dbol converts so easily I figured .3 would be a good start with it.

When my estrogen shot to 336 (top of range 70) I was taking a new AI that didn't work (I think the crap was fake/bad), switched back to anastrazol .25mg EOD and I started losing the bloat. I didn't develop gyno, never even got itchy or sensitive nips (which kind of sucks, would be a nice warning sign). I also keep letro and tamox on hand just in case.

When my RBC starts getting high, I do take aspirin and I donate, I don't let it get out of range and stay there that is why I won't do a 12 week cycle, I've read some people say that they just pop aspirin and keep going when their RBC gets out of range, when I was saying I'm not good with that, that's what I was talking about.

I monitor my blood pressure on a regular basis, even on tren my resting blood pressure stayed down in the 116/78 range. When I moved around a lot my blood pressure and pulse would shoot up, stress drove it up higher than normal too so when I had things to do like go to the dentist I would skip it for a couple days, this kept my pulse down. Tren was harsh, but after a few weeks the sides were all gone, blood work confirmed it was doing it's job. I'm not eager to run it again.

The only thing that is worrying me is my HDL/LDL's right now, tren freakin destroyed them, if I don't get my HDL's back up for a while I'll have to delay my next cycle, I'm trying to consume more fiber and omeg-3's etc to raise my HDL.

I don't bulk on cycle I try to run maintenance calories, through all of my cycles my chest has shrank, my arms have become lean, my legs have grown to the point I can't wear my jeans anymore (but they still fit around my waist). all of my shirts are tight through my back, I'm getting comments from friends and co-workers about how I'm beefing up and look like a V, I'm slowly leaning out and building muscle.

I've debated on doing a straight cut, decided against it, I won't bulk, I've been cleaning up my diet for the past several years, I don't eat bad foods I just eat too much. I'm used being able to eat as much as I want and not gain weight (young + lifting all the time) but when I got older I tore my pec, I was unable to do much for a few years and adipose caught me.

My body looks leaner than a lot of folks that post pictures on here asking for advice, someday I'll setup a prop and have the wife take some pics (I need an avatar after all).

When I first started lifting this time around, my bench was around 220, squat was around 200 (yep!) and I weighed about 233lbs. Fast forward the clock, I'm leaner and way stronger at 231lbs so my body is moving in the right direction.

My job causes me to sit on my ass - a lot - and they keep us supplied with cookies and junk food like you wouldn't believe, I try my best to avoid it and bring in my own stuff but that is the environment I have. Time wise, unless I want to completely drop the weights for cardio I simply don't have time for it, I try to do cardio on my off days right now but tren kicked my ass, I'm hoping NPP will allow it.

I'm not saying this to justify my cycling with a higher BF% than I should have, just trying to paint the picture, I understand this increases my risk, increases the potential for sides, but I'm not running into this completely blind. I could have easily lied to all of you and told you I got measured and I had 16% body fat and made up a weight to avoid the BF comments but I figure full disclosure is best.

The Dbol was meant for the end of the year, I would have been leaner then. It's a PITA for me to get this stuff so I don't want to waste it, I won't "give it away" or sell it because that then classifies me as a distributor and I have no interest in that. My gut is telling me not to run it with NPP (that's also 2 new compounds at once) but wanted to hear what others thought.

[AsEpSiS]

Dude, you'll be happier with the results if you cut before you cycle.

Despite all of the potential health risks, you're most likely just going to pile on more fat while cycling. Loose some BF 1st.

I'm not sure why you're asking for advice, you already seem to have your mind set.

[GSXRvi6]

^^ he's right.

Despite all of the potential health risks, you're most likely just going to pile on more fat while cycling. Loose some BF 1st.

That hasn't been the trend, I have continued to lean out as I get stronger and see more definition

Started lifting at again at 233lbs benching 220 squatting like 200

Fast forward

231lbs, benching and squatting in the 300's, waist is not bigger, veins are now sticking out in my arms and shoulders, around my elbows, around my knees, wife is commenting on how my chest is flattening out and stomach is shrinking.

Can someone please address my questions other than the BF thing? I know it's too high and I'm taking on additional risk, it's my risk to take and I appreciate the advice, I would tell someone else the same. I also drive too fast but a speeding ticket isn't going to stop me, I'm doing this one way or another.

Also, I'm 6' btw, I'm not a little dude

[Black]

Can you paraphrase your questions brother? I become comatose trying to read long posts.

[redz]

No Dbol it will just bloat you. Why do maintenance cals? You won't build new muscle.

[GSXRvi6]

Can you paraphrase your questions brother? I become comatose trying to read long posts.

Sorry man, question is, I was originally planning a deca cycle with a dbol kick start, plans have changed and I am switching to NPP but I already have the dbol, would taking the dbol be a waste or ill advised since the purpose is to kick start and NPP is short ester.

No Dbol it will just bloat you. Why do maintenance cals? You won't build new muscle.

This is what I was kind of thinking, I'll probably just stash it for a later date.

I run maintenance cals due to my BF%, I've seen others successfully cycle at maintenance and build muscle while losing fat. Obviously I don't tap into the full potential of the compounds ability to build muscle doing this, but it allows me to gain muscle slowly while losing fat slowly, and so far I retain all of my gains.

I try to shift as much of my calorie intake toward protein as possible, I have cut out too much fat before and my hair started falling out, almonds help with that.

I'll be the first to admit this isn't the best way to do this, but it's the road I'm walking and it's taking me toward my goal.

[redz]

You might feel like your muscles are fuller because of bloat but you aren't building new muscles at maintenance calories.

[GSXRvi6]

You might feel like your muscles are fuller because of bloat but you aren't building new muscles at maintenance calories.

My strength has continued to increase, bloat doesn't take your squats from 200 to 315 for reps

[Black]

Sorry man, question is, I was originally planning a deca cycle with a dbol kick start, plans have changed and I am switching to NPP but I already have the dbol, would taking the dbol be a waste or ill advised since the purpose is to kick start and NPP is short ester.

Yeah, with high bodyfat, I'd stay away from the Dbol as you've already figured that out. I would recommend prop, but since you are on TRT and have had a steady flow of test for awhile, you won't have to wait for the test to 'kick in'. On a regular cycle, someone running the same thing may have some libido issues because of the NPP taking effect first (maybe).

Looks like you have everything else where you need it and you already know the risks of cycling with high bodyfat, so that's your call. I personally would keep my test dose at TRT levels and add a small amount of NPP. Focus on cutting and using the compounds and a good diet to preserve as much muscle as you can. With test too high and high bodyfat, I feel your aromatization and water retention will be more than you will want.

[redz]

Gaining strength does not mean you built muscle. Pop a couple halotestin tabs tun tabs and you'll lift more than you could 1 hour later. I squatted 385lbs when I was 14. You had no excuse to cycle when you were squatting 200lbs.

[michael30]

Sending pm

[GSXRvi6]

Yeah, with high bodyfat, I'd stay away from the Dbol as you've already figured that out. I would recommend prop, but since you are on TRT and have had a steady flow of test for awhile, you won't have to wait for the test to 'kick in'. On a regular cycle, someone running the same thing may have some libido issues because of the NPP taking effect first (maybe).

Looks like you have everything else where you need it and you already know the risks of cycling with high bodyfat, so that's your call. I personally would keep my test dose at TRT levels and add a small amount of NPP. Focus on cutting and using the compounds and a good diet to preserve as much muscle as you can. With test too high and high bodyfat, I feel your aromatization and water retention will be more than you will want.

Thanks man, yea I'm gonna drop the dbol for this round and hold onto it for later, I've never thought of using NPP for cutting but I guess I don't see why not.

Gaining strength does not mean you built muscle. Pop a couple halotestin tabs tun tabs and you'll lift more than you could 1 hour later. I squatted 385lbs when I was 14. You had no excuse to cycle when you were squatting 200lbs.

Sorry man, I don't do halotestin and my body composition has clearly changed with muscle and not bloat.

I'm happy that you squatted 385lbs when you were 14, as I said before, I do not squat heavy, 200lbs was not my max and I have not maxed now, also I never stated I cycled while maxing 200lbs on a squat, when I started back lifting serious I was working out with that much, so those are assumptions on your part. When I started TRT I started making gains, I then did small cycles later after that.

Dude, you'll be happier with the results if you cut before you cycle.

Despite all of the potential health risks, you're most likely just going to pile on more fat while cycling. Loose some BF 1st.

I'm not sure why you're asking for advice, you already seem to have your mind set.

My mind is made up to cycle, but not THIS exact cycle. Based on the responses and PM's I have decided not to use the Dbol, which is the advice I was looking for.

Thanks guys.

[redz]

I wasn't trying to tell you to actually try halo I just meant strength gains do not indicate muscle growth. You should get your bf down by cutting or bulk and add more calories you are risking hurting your body for little gain running maintenance calories.