"Maximum" Genetic Potential

[Placebro]

Where do you stand on the use of steroids in the overall goal of maximum genetic potential?

What I mean by this is suppose an example of a 225 lb dude who has been training for years but still could pack on another 10 lbs naturally. Would he be able to pack on more in the end if he waited to juice until he was maxed out?-or would he end up putting more on in the cycle?

I ask because I've traditionally heard it that someone is better off waiting and cycling once they're naturally maxed out, but I have seen pro's who started quite young/not maxed out.

[qscgugcsq]

Yes and no...
It wont be the fact that he reached is max that will make him grow more with roid. On the contrary, if you are bigger its harder to pack muscle. However, if you reached your max naturally you know your body, you know how to diet, you know how to train.
And you have tendons good enough to reduce risk of tearing them.
Therefor he'll use steroid in a more optimal way. making him able to use less for same result, making it safer on the long run.

[Oki-Des]

I think this hypothetical question is difficult to answer because you are not putting enough factors into consideration to enable the question to be answered correctly. To be safe, it seems the smartest to grow as large as you can naturally first before taking steroids. But if you don't care about health, being on trt for life, putting too much strain on your liver or many other things, you might be able to get "bigger" using steroids if you ignore all of the other important factors that many of us consider.

[Placebro]

I think this hypothetical question is difficult to answer because you are not putting enough factors into consideration to enable the question to be answered correctly. To be safe, it seems the smartest to grow as large as you can naturally first before taking steroids. But if you don't care about health, being on trt for life, putting too much strain on your liver or many other things, you might be able to get "bigger" using steroids if you ignore all of the other important factors that many of us consider.

I guess what I'm asking is I'm contemplating a cycle after my 23rd b-day vs waiting another year or so. I know I can still make gains naturally, but if I can make gains faster, why wouldn't I? Would I sacrifice size in the long run or is it just a health concern?

I ask this purely from a size standpoint. I know that age is a concern, HPTA problems,etc-and that's something I'm weighing separate from this.

[Cuz]

Keep eating and training natural. Everyone has diff limits...but at your age you can grow without gear

[MuscleInk]

Keep eating and training natural. Everyone has diff limits...but at your age you can grow without gear

^^^Spot on and I don't subscribe to the "pros did it early" argument. At one time or another, as kids, most of us had dreams and aspirations to become a professional athlete. Many of us idolized athletes and believed one day we could go pro. The reality is, in any sport, very few people make it into the professional ranks and those that do, even fewer become the truly elite athletes and record setters. I've seen far too many young guys here use the excuse that pros they emulate started early and therefore it somehow justifies early use for themselves. It's a harsh reality that many wont go pro and those that use early will likely be among our senior or knowledgable members on here years from now encouraging other young men to wait and not make the mistakes they did.

It's a fair question, but there are very few cases that can be made to start steroids early. Those that offer such arguments are simply impatient and want the benefits of steroids for vanity, not to launch a professional career.

[RangerDanger830]

I have my undergraduate degree in Biology with a concentration in genetics from CSU in Columbus, GA. I have my M.S. in Bio from LRU in Hickoro, NC and am currently there still obtaining a PhD. So I know a thing or two about our bodies and our genetics. What I will tell you is that there is no such thing as a maximum limit to gaining muscle naturally. There is no stop codon or promoter gene that tells your body to stop making muscle, it just doesn't exist.

If you did have a natural maximum natural limit to gaining muscle then it would be in your genes no doubt. This means taking steroids would not push you past that max whatsoever because if your genes tell your body no then there is no horomone that is going to change that with the exception of genetic modification through PCRs and other methods we are just now perfecting in the lab.

What I am getting at here is that as long as you are eating right and working out hard and continuing to put severe stress on your muscles you will always grow no matter what. The exception to this would maybe be in your old age when your natural processes start failing due to your genes turning things off, but that is a whole different story.

The problem is that people do not eat exactly right or they do not work out hard enough. A poor diet or work out routine will still make changes to your body but they will only get you so far before you do hit a wall with that particular diet or exercise. That's like doing 30lb curls for the rest of your life and never growing much, you just need to eat right and push yourself and you will ALWAYS grow even without juice.

Another issue is that dudes get pretty big. You don't have to be Mr. Olympia big before your body starts gaining weight much slower. The bigger you get the slower you get but it never stops unless you do something wrong. People get so big and results come slow and they just get frustrated and wonder why they aren't gaining fast. That's just the way it is, natural is slower.

[Placebro]

^^^Spot on and I don't subscribe to the "pros did it early" argument. At one time or another, as kids, most of us had dreams and aspirations to become a professional athlete. Many of us idolized athletes and believed one day we could go pro. The reality is, in any sport, very few people make it into the professional ranks and those that do, even fewer become the truly elite athletes and record setters. I've seen far too many young guys here use the excuse that pros they emulate started early and therefore it somehow justifies early use for themselves. It's a harsh reality that many wont go pro and those that use early will likely be among our senior or knowledgable members on here years from now encouraging other young men to wait and not make the mistakes they did.

It's a fair question, but there are very few cases that can be made to start steroids early. Those that offer such arguments are simply impatient and want the benefits of steroids for vanity, not to launch a professional career.

I'm not trying to tell you that I'll go pro-hell, I don't even know if i would even compete....but I'm all about optimal, so if there's a way to cover the same distance in less time, I'm interested.

Is it just the age issue or a lack of training experience one? IE if I was 26 but could still gain naturally, would you still say wait? What would the problem be cycling in this case?

Sorry for the hypotheticals, I'm just really trying to get this one thing hammered out

[Bert]

I didn't start using aas until I was almost 30 and 260lbs. That was the smartest thing I could have ever done for long term success.

[Placebro]

I didn't start using aas until I was almost 30 and 260lbs. That was the smartest thing I could have ever done for long term success.

Why is this?

[SEOINAGE]

Do you want to be taking testosterone for the rest of your life to be the same size you would be without taking anything, just because it got you there a few years quicker? Another huge benefit to waiting is learning your body, this is pretty much invaluable. If you can't pack on a lot of size at your age naturally then you are doing something wrong.

[Cuz]

I didn't start using aas until I was almost 30 and 260lbs. That was the smartest thing I could have ever done for long term success.

There you go OP. All you needed to know.

[cuzz6119]

Another huge benefit to waiting is learning your body, this is pretty much invaluable. If you can't pack on a lot of size at your age naturally then you are doing something wrong.

I agree with this. I jump the gun and bought a cycle with the thoughts using to catch up with my buddies at the gym. At first I reframed from starting bc my BF was too high but now that it's pretty close to where want it I keep finding my self making gains and my buddies asking me if I have started without telling them haha. The gains are coming from eating right and training hard. You should set a strength and LBM goal before you consider starting a cycle. That's what I did and I keep moving it up bc I keep making gains faster than expected. I will say that my box of goodies setting on my desk is begging me to use them but I'll wait till I hit my goal's. It's all up to you in the end no matter what anyone tells you.

[Ericjay]

I appreciate rangerdangers comment- it's much easier for me buy into things when there's science behind it. OP, the later you wait- the better. I'm about the same age as you and I want to cycle real bad- have a bunch of test and dbol at home but getting huge now isn't worth TRT or a number of other things down the road. We just gotta take advantage of our naturally high test levels and get diet down pat.

[2iron]

From my own personal experience I just posted a thread. I just found out I have low test of 185. Ive only done 3 cycles pretty much wasted them too because of small diet. Im 32. Hopefully my body can still rebound but wish I would have figured out all the other aspects of bodybuilding before I jumped into faster results.

[ghettoboyd]

i feel a person whom waits till they develop a solid base from which to build upon with aas will get far better quality results and what i mean by quality is that solid grainy look that i feel cant be acquired by taking shortcuts at least that's what i see in my gym...all the 20 somethings on steroids are bloated and look like shit imho but they think they look great so good for them...i don't even try to educate them, its hopeless...