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Thread: Trt and cycle

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    Trt and cycle

    I have been on TRT for 8 years, 150-200 MG Cyp weekly. I'm wondering if I could do a higher dose cycle of just the Cyp and if so, what would the protocol look like, dosage and length? I already use Adex at .50 2 x week, I also use HCG , every few months @ 500 IUs, 2 days and then 1 day prior to my Cyp. Also, if doing so, would I want more protein intake (overall or per serving) to benefit from the xtra T? I'm not "new" to all of this, just new to a possible "cycle" and wondering what the benefit of just the Xtra T is if no other parameter is changed, IE: more protein, more training etc. Thanks for you input.

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    Very common blast, specifically your first, would be 500mgs per week of Cyp for 10-12 weeks. Also you will want to up the Adex a bit, typically .25 EOD and continue the HcG . I am running my first as well, Im in week 5 and starting to see a body composition change, specifically the waist. The gains are slower than I anticipated but they are starting to become noticable as a few people have made comments.
    Overall im pleased so far, no significant sides other than feet seem to get hot and maybe a tad bit of acne.

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    Would I be better off doing 250mg 2x week? And any more protein intake or anything else that would benefit?

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    Warrior read Austinites "How to Run a Successful First Cycle" sticky thread in his educational data base. It all applies. And when it comes to hcg it should be run continuously as part of your TRT, not sporadically. Austin has a thread there on HCG as well....

    Yes, split your injections. For that matter you should split your TRT dose injections as well. Less injected at one time = less of a spike in E2. You could then probably back down on your adex dose which is quite high for TRT.
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    Ok Kel, will do, thx. And I'll start running the HcG continuously as well. When back on TRT @ 2x weekly, what should I reduce the Adex to? Thank you?

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    You can knock your HCG back to 250 IU's either two or three times per week instead of the larger 500 IU dose.
    Well, reducing adex and managing E2 can be tricky for guys. You need to know where it runs currently, adjust your dosage then retest in approx a month. More often than not people over-do their adex out of fear, which is understandable.
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    Ok. And I read that we should be testing for Sensitive E2 Assay and not just E2? I believe I have been testing for just E2. I tend to take less Adex as I never have any sides from estrogen, but I want to make sure that it's not interfering with the Cyp.

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    Yes, it should be a sensitive E2 assay. If you use Labcorp I can provide you with the correct codes. A balanced E2 is essential for a plethora or reasons beyond gyno. The internal negative aspects of high E2 are what you worry about as they are far more dangerous than the external.
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    I see. ok. My Dr's office uses Quest Diagnostics.

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    So to put it all together. I am gonna pin 250mg cyb 2x week, every 3.5 days? HcG @ 250IUs 2x week. When will I pin that? Adex at .25 eod. When should I take that?

    Also, reading the "first cycle"...tell me how to get 300 gms of protein every day? Along with my carbs? I am gonna try to reach the 40/40/20 ratio. Does that sound about right? I ate quite a bit today and still came up 50 gms short. If I am 200 lbs I need 300 Gms of protein correct?

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    Correct on cyp. HCG is fine at twice per week. When doesn't really matter as long as you're consistent. You can even put it in the same syringe as your test if you like. Or inject it on a separate day via SQ in belly fat. Adex start on day two and go EOD as stated. Simply follow Austin's write up and you'll do just fine. Try and do some blood work as stated in his thread as well.

    I'd visit the Nutrition Forum and let those guys help you with your diet. How much you eat depends on your goals with your cycle. Nutrition is paramount and also where most guys fail. All this needs to be figured out before you start. Otherwise it can simply be a waste of your money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Correct on cyp. HCG is fine at twice per week. When doesn't really matter as long as you're consistent. You can even put it in the same syringe as your test if you like. Or inject it on a separate day via SQ in belly fat. Adex start on day two and go EOD as stated. Simply follow Austin's write up and you'll do just fine. Try and do some blood work as stated in his thread as well.

    I'd visit the Nutrition Forum and let those guys help you with your diet. How much you eat depends on your goals with your cycle. Nutrition is paramount and also where most guys fail. All this needs to be figured out before you start. Otherwise it can simply be a waste of your money.
    Ok cool. Sounds straight forward.

    Yea I completely get that nutrition is the biggest challenge as well as factor in gaining good muscle. I was looking thru the nutrition area and my mind is going in 10 directions....Lmbo. My main goal is to gain and I know I need to eat more and correctly to do so. I just want to try this blast cycle and see how I respond, I have responded very well to TRT over the years but need to pin down my nutrition. I generally eat clean but just not enough. I am gonna get blood work in the next week or two since I am due and need my refills. I won't start the blast till I get the blood and can assure myself that I can get the calories/protein. Thank you.
    Last edited by Warrior1700; 03-21-2014 at 09:35 PM.

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    You can do it Warrior. It's hard to eat enough, it really is. Many guys "think" they are but they really don't. Plan your meals out, cook in bulk and pre-package your food. Saves a lot of time and helps to keep you on track. It ain't easy but the results are worthwhile. Then, and it's a big "then," when your back to your normal TRT dosage you have to continue eating to support the newly formed muscle. If you don't then what you gained will be lost and it was only temporary fun.

    Hit the nutrition section. Search up a TDEE calculator and plan it out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    You can do it Warrior. It's hard to eat enough, it really is. Many guys "think" they are but they really don't. Plan your meals out, cook in bulk and pre-package your food. Saves a lot of time and helps to keep you on track. It ain't easy but the results are worthwhile. Then, and it's a big "then," when your back to your normal TRT dosage you have to continue eating to support the newly formed muscle. If you don't then what you gained will be lost and it was only temporary fun.

    Hit the nutrition section. Search up a TDEE calculator and plan it out.
    Thanks for the support brother....I am looking into the Nutrition section, and also posted an inquiry there as well. I'll also look more at the TDEE section. I have a food saver which is awesome, as it keeps the precooked food fresher. And I shop at Costco...So it's ion bulk. Hehe. I will start to plan out my meals in advance and get it ready the day/night before. I am anxious to get started on the blast but won't until I get my new blood work and my diet closer to where it should be. Don't get me wrong, I love to eat, good food, it's just hard to have a variety and eat "Enough" during the day. As I posted in the nutrition section, I work 3p-11p and it's a bit difficult sometimes to get meals and or shakes while at work. Definitely gonna be a challenge, but thanks again for the support , I am gonna give it a big effort for sure.

    As far as BF%, and figuring TDEE, unless I use the recommended options in Austinite's post, are we just guessing? I had a scale test(Were I hold onto 2 conductive handles and stand on a scale of sorts) done last year and I was 12% ish. Also, are you all really cutting that tiny Adex pill into 4's ?? I barley got it into 2's... Thanks all.

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    Look into a Bod Pod assessment. Use this link and type in your zip to locate one near you:

    COSMED - BOD POD Gold Standard in Body Composition

    Next time at costco buy a pill cutter in the pharmacy section. It'll work for you.
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    Right on, there is a BodPod real close to me thanks.

    I am gonna start my blast today. 250mg cyp 2x week. I'll take my 250 IUs 2 x week on between cyp inj. and Adex @.25 eod. I am finding in the last 9 days that I am getting enough protein, about 230-250 a day. Carbs are good also. I am finding my fat is up a bit but I am using organic coconut oil and Flax along with Omega 3 fish oil. Those are all good fats though right? Also taking an Animal Pak a day.

    I also just got a blood draw today so we'll see where I am at. I asked for Sensitive E2 assay. What is the diff in E2 and sensitive e2 assay?

    Thanks all.

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    Sensitive E2 assay is specific to males.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Sensitive E2 assay is specific to males.
    Got cha. Ok thanks.

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    I've been considering a blast in the near future as well. Good luck W17!

    A question related to this thread: if 500mg a week is best for a first cycle and you are on, say, 200 mg/wk for trt; wouldn't one need 700 per week to get a true 500/wk cycle?

    Seems I read this here somewhere, but can't find it searching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevtrev View Post
    I've been considering a blast in the near future as well. Good luck W17!

    A question related to this thread: if 500mg a week is best for a first cycle and you are on, say, 200 mg/wk for trt; wouldn't one need 700 per week to get a true 500/wk cycle?

    Seems I read this here somewhere, but can't find it searching.
    Hey thanks Trev. Ya seems I read that somewhere on here as well I think. Hmmmmm. Good ? Anyone?

    Perhaps with TRT since we are low to begin with the 200mg week brings us to high/normal and the added 400mg might be enuf?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevtrev View Post
    I've been considering a blast in the near future as well. Good luck W17!

    A question related to this thread: if 500mg a week is best for a first cycle and you are on, say, 200 mg/wk for trt; wouldn't one need 700 per week to get a true 500/wk cycle?

    Seems I read this here somewhere, but can't find it searching.
    No. When a person not on TRT does a 500 per week cycle it doesn't add up "in addition" to their endogenous test as they become shut down. If you bump up your test from your TRT dose to 500mg per week you will note a substantial difference. No need to add 500 on top of your normal dose. Keep it simple for your first cycle. 500 is 500 no matter how you do the math.
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    Sounds great Kel. Thanks. Simple is always good. :-) What's the time frame that I might start to notice as opposed to someone just starting a first cycle NOT on HRT. Provided my diet and training is in order?

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    Phooey. Just started with my first 250mg Cyp on Monday. Dr's office called Tues and said they need more blood. Now I gotta wait bout 10 days and restart my blast. On that note. Every 3.5 days would be like Monday morning then Thursday Night then again Monday morning and so on??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior1700 View Post
    Sounds great Kel. Thanks. Simple is always good. :-) What's the time frame that I might start to notice as opposed to someone just starting a first cycle NOT on HRT. Provided my diet and training is in order?
    Still about the same. 4 weeks or so for long esters...

    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior1700 View Post
    Phooey. Just started with my first 250mg Cyp on Monday. Dr's office called Tues and said they need more blood. Now I gotta wait bout 10 days and restart my blast. On that note. Every 3.5 days would be like Monday morning then Thursday Night then again Monday morning and so on??
    What are they testing for? If it's not testosterone then don't worry. If it is, you need to wait longer. Yes to Monday morning and Thursday evening and repeat. Honestly every 3.5 days is not crucial. Every 3-4 days is just fine.
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    It's for Total testosterone . Apparently they need more, nurse said they tested for "ultra sensitive E2?" and now need more for the total test. So I need more than 10 days so as not to test too high?

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    One shot isn't going to raise serum levels that much but we don't know how you metabolize. I'd stretch it out a bit more so your levels seem consistent with your last test.
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    Ok, I'll wait 2 week, can I continue the HCG at least? And AI?

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    No. Not at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    No. Not at all.
    Ok. So just hafta wait and start over in a couple weeks?!?! Phooey.

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    Ok, so I waited for 2 weeks and had blood drawn again as there was not a sufficient amount from my last draw.

    Total Test came back, after waiting 2 weeks from a 250mg inj, 251 and Free Test at 50.5....Eeeeks. So I just started the blast yesterday, should I start the HCG and the Adex right away?

    Prior to the 2 week off period and prior to the 200mg Inj back on 4/1, my E2 is 33 on a range of < or = 39 pg/mL and my SHBG is 17 on a range of 10-50 nmol/L
    Last edited by Warrior1700; 04-28-2014 at 10:10 AM.

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    Update: Just got back Ultra sensitive E2, 25 pg/ml after 2 weeks off of everything.

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    If you started a cycle then yes, start your AI and HCG .
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    Hematocrit

    So I just reread Austinite's thread post on "my first cycle" and the Hematocrit stood out, about fatigue....

    My recent BW shows 52.7% and that's at 200mg weekly Cyp TRT.

    Is this gonna go up a lot with this blast of 500 weekly, should I give blood now? I will be getting Mid cycle BW in about 5 weeks.

    I don't know if this has anything to do with my recent fatigue or if it's other factors...which are but not limited to...Stress, some depression, anxiety, lack of sleep...Lol. I know, It's ALL bad, I am combating the depression, and lack of sleep, (ZMA and CPAP)

    But is 52.7% contributing to that exponentially or is it just all the other crap?
    Last edited by Warrior1700; 05-02-2014 at 11:49 AM.

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    Yes. Give blood. Think I mentioned that earlier. Before, during and after cycle.
    Seems you have a lot going on and pointing the finger at one thing is a bit hard.
    Try melatonin to help you sleep. It also helps release GH.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Yes. Give blood. Think I mentioned that earlier. Before, during and after cycle.
    Seems you have a lot going on and pointing the finger at one thing is a bit hard.
    Try melatonin to help you sleep. It also helps release GH.
    Ok, appointment to give blood this Sunday.

    I know....But I want to at least start with things that are easily accomplished and beneficial. I'll go get some melatonin also, I can still take the ZMA still right? I just started trying ZMA for the last week, still deciding if it helps. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    No. When a person not on TRT does a 500 per week cycle it doesn't add up "in addition" to their endogenous test as they become shut down. If you bump up your test from your TRT dose to 500mg per week you will note a substantial difference. No need to add 500 on top of your normal dose. Keep it simple for your first cycle. 500 is 500 no matter how you do the math.
    Hmmmm.... I never thought of it that way. I am on TRT/HRT. Test Cyp 200 mg/wk, 1 pin on Mondays. I figured i would have to 'add' to it like the guy said. But i guess the balls shut down either way. So now i am doing 200 mg every other day. Want to get that 'Blast'. Been doing it for a week so far. Only noticed veins seem to be sticking out more & a little bit of the Alpha Male attitude. Is this a decent cycle?

    Do beta blockers (high blood pres med) affect gains?
    Last edited by Stevenn1; 05-09-2014 at 10:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevenn1 View Post
    Hmmmm.... I never thought of it that way. I am on TRT/HRT. Test Cyp 200 mg/wk, 1 pin on Mondays. I figured i would have to 'add' to it like the guy said. But i guess the balls shut down either way. So now i am doing 200 mg every other day. Want to get that 'Blast'. Been doing it for a week so far. Only noticed veins seem to be sticking out more & a little bit of the Alpha Male attitude. Is this a decent cycle?

    Do beta blockers (high blood pres med) affect gains?
    Stevenn if this is your first cycle simply run 500mg. Two shots a week at 250 each. Right now you're running basically 700mg's per week. Hopefully you are using an AI (you must) as well as hcg on cycle. AI should be dosed at .25mg EOD.

    At the top of this forum is "Austinites Educational Articles Database." Read the one on first cycles. No need for me to regurgitate it as it will walk you through everything you need.

    Be safe.

    ps: when you go back to TRT split that dosage in half and inject every 3-4 days. Much better for you. Less injected at one time = less spike in E2.
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    All i got is Test Cyp. I will probably try 200 mg x 2 & see how that goes.
    Started May 1. No issues yet.
    I think i am starting to show good pumps.
    Not looking for massive gains.
    Thanks!

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    I just added 100mg Deca , (mostly for arthritis issues in my neck ), no need to reduce the cyp at all from 250 2x week right?

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    Correct.
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