AI Question

[Placebro]

So I have been doing some research about a potential cycle sometime down the road. I am currently trying to figure out the AI component. I have a couple questions.

How do you chose which AI take?...I have been mainly looking at aromasin, arimidex, and letrozole. From what I have found, they are different strengths with letro being the strongest estrogen suppression?

I was initially leaning towards aromasin, but I have heard that letrozole is more effective against gyno-is this something that you would have on hand and have to switch to mid cycle? IE start with aromisin and switch to letro? Or is only one good enough?

The cycle I would be looking at would be 12 weeks of Test E @ 500 mg/week pinned 2x a week. With 500 IU of HCG pinned 2x a week as well.

[RangerDanger830]

I have never used aromasin but I have taken the other two and am on Adex now. Letro is definitely the strongest but that doesn't necessarily means it is the best. It just means it is easier for you to inhibit your aromatase too much and have too little estrogen and hinder your gains with some side effects. As far as the other two, I know they work just as well. The important thing is to figure out what dose is best for you for whichever one you choose. I wouldn't ever recommend someone in your situation to switch AIs mid-cycle because you aren't familiar with any of them. Most people have to figure out AI doses through trial and error since bw usually isnt available to them as often as they would like. If you were to switch mid-cycle to an unfamiliar AI then that means you are stuck trying to figure out what dose is best for you for that AI all over again.

[Placebro]

I have never used aromasin but I have taken the other two and am on Adex now. Letro is definitely the strongest but that doesn't necessarily means it is the best. It just means it is easier for you to inhibit your aromatase too much and have too little estrogen and hinder your gains with some side effects. As far as the other two, I know they work just as well. The important thing is to figure out what dose is best for you for whichever one you choose. I wouldn't ever recommend someone in your situation to switch AIs mid-cycle because you aren't familiar with any of them. Most people have to figure out AI doses through trial and error since bw usually isnt available to them as often as they would like. If you were to switch mid-cycle to an unfamiliar AI then that means you are stuck trying to figure out what dose is best for you for that AI all over again.

so what kind of sides did you see with letro?

you say don't switch AI's-what would you recommend then, if I were to start to develop gyno with, say, adex?

[cantbetouched]

I think Nova is the best just because it has factual studies yo improve lipids and can be used off cycle to help lipids. Why not get a bonus?

[cantbetouched]

I think Nova is the best just because it has factual studies yo improve lipids and can be used off cycle to help lipids. Why not get a bonus?

Note: I know its not a AI but still does block the estro receptors allowing for estrogen to be present and best gains versus letro or others that drop it too low

[RangerDanger830]

so what kind of sides did you see with letro?

you say don't switch AI's-what would you recommend then, if I were to start to develop gyno with, say, adex?

Me personally, I saw no sides with Letro at all. Granted I took a conservative dose, .25mg EOD I believe it was, I would have to look to be honest with you, that was two cycles ago. I usually stick with Adex on cycle and save the SERMs for PCT. Not that there is anything wrong with Letro or Aromasin, Adex is just what I have always used mainly.

Common side effects of low estrogen (caused by taking too much of an AI) include increase in BF, loss of muscle, libido issues, depression, joint pain, and a ton others.

Side effects from Letro: hot flashes, nausea, joint pain, sweating, and a few others I cannot remember off the top of my head.

I think you should be less concerned with the side effects of each AI because most of them seem to be fairly mild. I have never experienced any of them, but then again you are different than me. The benefit of running one on cycle obviously outweighs those side effects. No AI that I know of stays in your body long anyway so if side effects do occur they will be gone in a day or two after discontinuing use.

If I were to see the early symptoms of gyno starting I would re-evaluate my doses of AAS. If I was taking reasonable doses to begin with, which I always try to do, I would recommend bumping the AI up slightly for a few days and see if that helps. I have had to bump my Adex up from .25mg EOD to as much as .5mg ED sometimes depending on the cycle. Everyone has a different sensitivity to these substances though.

[RangerDanger830]

I would like to add that these are just my opinions based off of personal cycles. I would recommend reading some of the stickies on AIs to find out which one is right for you and which dose is good to start with. The only thing I can say that is not an opinion is that you need to take an AI on cycle always.

[Placebro]

Me personally, I saw no sides with Letro at all. Granted I took a conservative dose, .25mg EOD I believe it was, I would have to look to be honest with you, that was two cycles ago. I usually stick with Adex on cycle and save the SERMs for PCT. Not that there is anything wrong with Letro or Aromasin, Adex is just what I have always used mainly.

Common side effects of low estrogen (caused by taking too much of an AI) include increase in BF, loss of muscle, libido issues, depression, joint pain, and a ton others.

Side effects from Letro: hot flashes, nausea, joint pain, sweating, and a few others I cannot remember off the top of my head.

I think you should be less concerned with the side effects of each AI because most of them seem to be fairly mild. I have never experienced any of them, but then again you are different than me. The benefit of running one on cycle obviously outweighs those side effects. No AI that I know of stays in your body long anyway so if side effects do occur they will be gone in a day or two after discontinuing use.

If I were to see the early symptoms of gyno starting I would re-evaluate my doses of AAS. If I was taking reasonable doses to begin with, which I always try to do, I would recommend bumping the AI up slightly for a few days and see if that helps. I have had to bump my Adex up from .25mg EOD to as much as .5mg ED sometimes depending on the cycle. Everyone has a different sensitivity to these substances though.

I have been reading the stickies and they seem somewhat confusing. I am trying to figure out what chems I would need to have on hand...some posts say that Nolva will remove gyno and others say it will only stop its progress...it's just kinda confusing.

What I'd like to do is get an AI that could prevent gyno, but have a fall back option to remove any gyno that could form....if I just got Adex and Nolva would this do the trick? And if gyno were to start would I just add nolva to the adex?

[David LoPan]

http://forums.steroid.com/pct-post-c...l-control.html

Best read this

[RangerDanger830]

http://forums.steroid.com/pct-post-c...l-control.html

Best read this

That will help, you need an AI on cycle, and the typical PCT consists of two SERMs, the Nolva and Clomid. Let us know what your questions are after reading that so we aren't being redundant.

[Placebro]

That will help, you need an AI on cycle, and the typical PCT consists of two SERMs, the Nolva and Clomid. Let us know what your questions are after reading that so we aren't being redundant.

I was planning on clomid 75/50/50/50 and nolva 40/20/20/20 for pct.

1.If i go buy clomid, nolva, and adex, will that be enough if the worst case scenario of gyno happens?

2. If that is the case, then would I start with adex at .25mg eod if no gyno happend

3. bump to .5 ed+ nolva 20 if gyno develops?

[David LoPan]

Stane works well for my rat. Get it from AR-R but my rat seems to think it tastes like SHIT. I have to put the syringe in the back of the lab rats mouth. Keeps the E2 low and the cock hard.

[Bio-Active]

I was planning on clomid 75/50/50/50 and nolva 40/20/20/20 for pct.

1.If i go buy clomid, nolva, and adex, will that be enough if the worst case scenario of gyno happens?

2. If that is the case, then would I start with adex at .25mg eod if no gyno happend

3. bump to .5 ed+ nolva 20 if gyno develops?

Why do you want to shut down your natty test production at 21? Are you aware of the risks that come with cycling? Really if you want to cycle it would be advised to run hcg during your cycle as well. Read the beginner cycle stickies and the pct stickies. Everything you need is there

[Placebro]

was thinking of gel capping the chems for my rat=) heard the rats can't taste after

does adex work here though? it looks like it'd be simpler from a chem budget standpoint-3 instead of 4.

[RangerDanger830]

Stane is another effective option, completely forgot about that one. It is obvious you are really concerned about gyno, which is good. But if you do those does you should be fine. Just don't take the dose to heart. The correct thing to do would be to start at .25 EOD and if symptoms appear increase the dose and monitor blood levels as often as you can. Don't get stuck on the .5mg ED thing, that works for me but might be too much or too little for you depending on your stats and your genes.

[Placebro]

Why do you want to shut down your natty test production at 21? Are you aware of the risks that come with cycling? Really if you want to cycle it would be advised to run hcg during your cycle as well. Read the beginner cycle stickies and the pct stickies. Everything you need is there

I made my account a couple years ago and just put a bs date in. I'm 22 and most likely waiting until after 23 to do this...I really need to figure out how to change that-I keep having people tell me this. I am well aware of the risks.

I have acquired the test and hcg,now i'm looking into the AI and serms.


I have read nearly all of the stickies but they all contain various opinions on the AI...and I'm trying to clarify if the 3 would be sufficient or if I would need something else on hand in case

[Placebro]

Stane is another effective option, completely forgot about that one. It is obvious you are really concerned about gyno, which is good. But if you do those does you should be fine. Just don't take the dose to heart. The correct thing to do would be to start at .25 EOD and if symptoms appear increase the dose and monitor blood levels as often as you can. Don't get stuck on the .5mg ED thing, that works for me but might be too much or too little for you depending on your stats and your genes.

I'm big on covering my basis...and gyno is one of the bigger sides I'm worried about...I'd worry about the dosages more in the moment, but right now I'm trying to get a general idea of what to expect, given that I have no baseline to adjust dosages.

[Bio-Active]

If your planning to run Adex then start at .25 eod and adjust from there if you run aromasin which I prefer then start at 12.5 mg Ed and adjust from there if needed. Clomid and nolvadex for pct and keep letro on hand only for emergency. If you use your ai on cycle to maintain estrogen control and use the serms for pct you shouldn't need the letro but its better to be on the safe side and gave everything you may need before you start. Starting at a low bf will help maintain estrogen as well

[RangerDanger830]

I'm big on covering my basis...and gyno is one of the bigger sides I'm worried about...I'd worry about the dosages more in the moment, but right now I'm trying to get a general idea of what to expect, given that I have no baseline to adjust dosages.

Well the only fullproof way of doing it right is to get bloods done often so you can see how the AI is affecting your estrogen levels. Other than that you just have to go off of symptoms you see and feel.

[Placebro]

If your planning to run Adex then start at .25 eod and adjust from there if you run aromasin which I prefer then start at 12.5 mg Ed and adjust from there if needed. Clomid and nolvadex for pct and keep letro on hand only for emergency. If you use your ai on cycle to maintain estrogen control and use the serms for pct you shouldn't need the letro but its better to be on the safe side and gave everything you may need before you start. Starting at a low bf will help maintain estrogen as well

This is what I was looking for, my only question is what about this ?
http://forums.steroid.com/pct-post-c...erms-only.html


I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, but I'm getting a lot of conflicting info-granted, I'm sure theres more than one way to do it...I'm just trying to process it all

[Bio-Active]

This is what I was looking for, my only question is what about this ?
http://forums.steroid.com/pct-post-c...erms-only.html

I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, but I'm getting a lot of conflicting info-granted, I'm sure theres more than one way to do it...I'm just trying to process it all

Letro is very strong and can crush estrogen. I see no need to run it on cycle when you have other options.

[RangerDanger830]

This is what I was looking for, my only question is what about this ?
http://forums.steroid.com/pct-post-c...erms-only.html


I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, but I'm getting a lot of conflicting info-granted, I'm sure theres more than one way to do it...I'm just trying to process it all

I just had a good conversation on here with a couple of knowledgeable guys that know their stuff. After reading literally dozens of studies on gyno treatment using AIs and SERMs I can tell you a few things for certain. There have been some studies that show AIs reverse gyno but usually very minimally and some of them had a confidence interval of .1 rather than .05, but that is still pretty good regardless. However, the studies using SERMs like Nolva and Ralox (the two with the best results), show significant gyno reversal with a much higher rate of success than most AIs.

[RangerDanger830]

I also think you need to put more faith in AI's ability to prevent gyno in the first place. If you do the cycle the right way, and it seems you are, there should be an extremely small chance of developing gyno

[Placebro]

I just had a good conversation on here with a couple of knowledgeable guys that know their stuff. After reading literally dozens of studies on gyno treatment using AIs and SERMs I can tell you a few things for certain. There have been some studies that show AIs reverse gyno but usually very minimally and some of them had a confidence interval of .1 rather than .05, but that is still pretty good regardless. However, the studies using SERMs like Nolva and Ralox (the two with the best results), show significant gyno reversal with a much higher rate of success than most AIs.

Alrighty, so hypothetically if I have nolva on hand for pct, i could also use it if the need came up during the cycle and that would get rid of gyno that was forming.

I would keep the adex going in this hypothetical-with probably an increased dose?

and pct the same as original

[Placebro]

I also think you need to put more faith in AI's ability to prevent gyno in the first place. If you do the cycle the right way, and it seems you are, there should be an extremely small chance of developing gyno

Definitely, I just want to be prepared...why chance it?

[RangerDanger830]

Definitely, I just want to be prepared...why chance it?

Well here is what I do and most others. If I am on cycle I always take an AI, always, no exceptions. If I can't take an AI I won't run a cycle. But if gyno symptoms start to show, I bump my AI dose up some to see if that helps. I had to this this just recently actually. If that helps then I maintain that dose. If that does not help I will stop the cycle immediately and shortly after start my PCT which does include the Nolva and Clomid. I have never had it get to the point of stopping my cycle but I am sure that if it did you would be able to reverse it. The issue with not being able to reverse it is when people let it go too long and don't correct it immediately. As long as you do that you are ok.

[Placebro]

Well here is what I do and most others. If I am on cycle I always take an AI, always, no exceptions. If I can't take an AI I won't run a cycle. But if gyno symptoms start to show, I bump my AI dose up some to see if that helps. I had to this this just recently actually. If that helps then I maintain that dose. If that does not help I will stop the cycle immediately and shortly after start my PCT which does include the Nolva and Clomid. I have never had it get to the point of stopping my cycle but I am sure that if it did you would be able to reverse it. The issue with not being able to reverse it is when people let it go too long and don't correct it immediately. As long as you do that you are ok.

If you upped the AI and it stopped it from forming further, would you have like a left over little bump to take care of? or does the AI take care of it when you up the dose?

And whats the reason for stopping the cycle vs nolva on cycle?

[Bio-Active]

If you upped the AI and it stopped it from forming further, would you have like a left over little bump to take care of? or does the AI take care of it when you up the dose?

And whats the reason for stopping the cycle vs nolva on cycle?

These are the risks that come with cycle. Some people are more sensitive to estrogen than others and develop Gyno. The key is catching it early enough and reacting along with using the proper ancillary s

[Placebro]

These are the risks that come with cycle. Some people are more sensitive to estrogen than others and develop Gyno. The key is catching it early enough and reacting along with using the proper ancillary s

So suppose I noticed it, and after 2 days upped the AI-would that most likely take care of it or would there still be some left that I would have to run nolva to remove fully?

And if I did have to run nolva, can it be done on cycle?

[Bio-Active]

So suppose I noticed it, and after 2 days upped the AI-would that most likely take care of it or would there still be some left that I would have to run nolva to remove fully?

And if I did have to run nolva, can it be done on cycle?

Sure you would up the ai. More than likely that would take care of it and if it didn't you would run low dose nolvadex along side. Like 10 mg Ed

[Placebro]

Sweet, thanks!

So it looks like I'll look into getting nolva, clomid, and adex then