First cycle critique.

**FapOLantern** · 04-12-2014, 03:18 PM

So, starting my first cycle in a bit. I'm 24, 182 cm, and 105 kg, around 14% BF. (5´11 and 231 lb for the murkans)
My goals are to gain strength, mostly, but due to my surplus I'll probably gain some LBM too, which is fine by me. I'm not sure how I will react to juice, but I hope to gain a fair bit of strength on this combo.

Cycle layout:

Week 1-4: Test prop @ 100 mg EOD. (350mg/week) -
Week 1-8: Test Cyp @ 250 mg every 3.5 days (500mg/week total)
Week 1-8: hCG @ 500iu/week
Week 4-8: Oxandrolone @ 30/mg ED

Suppls: NAC for liver, b12 methyl, pycnogenol, b5, multi, zinc, niacin (for cholesterol).

PCT: Start 18 day after last injection:

Clomid @ 75/50/50/50 & Nolvadex @ 40/20/20/20

I'll run Arimidex @ .25 mg EOD through the duration of the cycle. I'm estrogen dominant, and I determined I'm an over responder, since that same dose took me from 38 pg/ml E2 to zero drug-free, and I'm now on .5mg a week. If I get any bloat or moonface I'll bump it up.

I included Oxandrolone because my guy got some new powders and will send me a freebie, enough for 1 month at 30 mg/ day. I'm only adding it because it's a mild compound and will get some more strength gains. The dose is low, would it be better to run it 2 weeks at 60mg?

I think I have all bases covered. Test base, uncomplicated, hcg to keep my nads nice and full, and liver protection as insurance, and keep it at 8 weeks to avoid myostatin increase and the plateau it will bring. This will also hasten recovery and let me cycle again sooner. I could add the anavar at week 8 and run for 12, but my gut tells me this is not a good idea.

Diet is fine, I'll add a lot of emphasis on sleep, and my routine will be Ice cream fitness template (Stronglifts with some accessory work added), since my body responded pretty well to it while natural.

I'll also throw in some cardio on off days (I train BJJ, but I'll add some jump rope or treadmill, depending on my mood) and watch my RCBC just in case. I'm slightly anemic ATM due to my thyroid (fixing it as we speak), so if anything the AAS will actually help me at the medical level, is my take.

How does it look? I really like the layout, but since most of you are old monkeys with plenty of cycles under your belts, I humbly bow my head and defer to you for advice and suggestions.

Cheers

**RangerDanger830** · 04-12-2014, 05:55 PM

Well you seem to have done your research. You are doing quite a bit of test the first few weeks, I am not going to say you shouldn't do 850mg a week for those first four weeks but I would say that you won't need to in order to make good gains. Me personally never recommend anything over 500 or 600 a week for a first cycle. But if you are hellbent on doing that I would just make sure you are prepared to increase your AI since the test dose is fairly high.

Have you considered extending the cycle to 10-12 weeks? You would see better results and even 10 weeks wouldn't be detrimental to your HPTA when compared to 8. I did an 8 week cycle for my first one but wished I had done more. I have never taken anavar myself, only dated a woman who did and know a few people at the gym so I cannot say. If it were me though I would keep with 30mg over a longer period.

**tren_monster** · 04-12-2014, 11:25 PM

Clomids effectiveness is overrated and can cause a host of nasty side effects. nolva bites rancid nut sacks.

**ElGringo** · 04-12-2014, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by tren_monster

nolva bites rancid nut sacks.

wut?
can you explain what you mean for us non native english speakers please
i'm guessing less or weaker side effects?

**MuscleInk** · 04-13-2014, 01:09 AM

Doses of clomiphene citrate and tamoxifen (nolva) are fine. Stick with that. Consider 12 weeks with longer ester as advised.

**ppwc1985** · 04-13-2014, 01:20 AM

^^^ this, but for first cycle 850test a week is way to much. IMO drop the prop, stick with the cyp and extend your cycle out to 12 weeks. You won't feel cyp till the 4-6 week period. Or drop the cyp, and just do the prop for 8 weeks. Just up it to 500mg ew. You really only need the test too. Otherwise looks like you did you research, good luck.

**FapOLantern** · 04-13-2014, 02:42 PM

Well, the reason I'd be taking the prop is to start feeling the test working sooner. Since you can really start feeling the cypionate at 4-5 weeks due to blood concentration, why do you guys think it'd be detrimental to take the prop? I wouldn't be having 850mg of ACTIVE test for those first four weeks. At least that's what I understood. If I'm wrong, I'll be glad to be corrected.

**RangerDanger830** · 04-13-2014, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by FapOLantern

Well, the reason I'd be taking the prop is to start feeling the test working sooner. Since you can really start feeling the cypionate at 4-5 weeks due to blood concentration, why do you guys think it'd be detrimental to take the prop? I wouldn't be having 850mg of ACTIVE test for those first four weeks. At least that's what I understood. If I'm wrong, I'll be glad to be corrected.

A lot of guys do take the prop and cyp the way you are because they do enjoy getting more out of the few weeks they are on cycle, I am all for it. The reason I wouldn't recommend that is because the dose is still fairly high. If you took it would you fall over dead with instant gyno? No you wouldn't, you might could get away with it. But the higher dose you go the more risk of side effects. A higher dose is sometimes necessary after you have been cycling for awhile but in your situation, it isn't necessary so why risk it?

You generally want to avoid bad side effects as much as possible in a first cycle for a few reasons, in my opinion of course, others may feel differently. For one, you aren't quite dialed in on how your body reacts to everything. So maybe your estrogen gets little high and you have to feel out your dose of AI, I would prefer to have done a very basic, easy cycle in order to get a feel for things like that first so if sides do develop you are more equipped to handle them. That and a bad first cycle experience is not what anyone wants anyway.

How do you get that you will not have 850mg of active test in you those four weeks?

**FapOLantern** · 04-13-2014, 05:55 PM

Because cypionate is a longer ester and the release will be quite slow, so not 100% test is bioavailable from day 1. Still, I see where you're coming from, and you make a very good point. I want to use prop to get a headstart, but I didn't want to do a prop only cycle because pinning EOD is a hassle, I can take it for 4 weeks but not 8 or, god forbid, 12.

So far, I think I'll change my cycle to 10 weeks, a happy medium between 8 and 12. I'm still not sold on dropping the prop, though. I'm just really excited for my first cycle and I want to feel the test immediately. I know that's a bad mentality to have, but I can't help it. Maybe I should pin less prop? I'm gonna try to calculate the actual amount of bioavailable test if I do reduce the prop during those first 4 weeks. I know that for a first cycle I should stick to 250-500mg test/week.

Thanks for your input!

**RangerDanger830** · 04-13-2014, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by FapOLantern

Because cypionate is a longer ester and the release will be quite slow, so not 100% test is bioavailable from day 1. Still, I see where you're coming from, and you make a very good point. I want to use prop to get a headstart, but I didn't want to do a prop only cycle because pinning EOD is a hassle, I can take it for 4 weeks but not 8 or, god forbid, 12.

So far, I think I'll change my cycle to 10 weeks, a happy medium between 8 and 12. I'm still not sold on dropping the prop, though. I'm just really excited for my first cycle and I want to feel the test immediately. I know that's a bad mentality to have, but I can't help it. Maybe I should pin less prop? I'm gonna try to calculate the actual amount of bioavailable test if I do reduce the prop during those first 4 weeks. I know that for a first cycle I should stick to 250-500mg test/week.

Thanks for your input!

I wouldn't necessarily say you should do 250mg of test a week for a first cycle, that is pretty low even for a first cycle. 500mg is a happy medium. If it were me I would keep the both esters in there and just lower the dose of each a little bit so I could run it longer and everything works out. That's not to say you can't do the 850mg, no it won't be all bioavail right away but towards the end of that four weeks you would definitely be feeling it. So you can do it, I just wanted you to be aware of the risks of doing so. That way you can plan accordingly, you may have to adjust your AI dose or something like that.

I would say ten weeks is a pretty decent timeframe. You should see good results with it. Just be careful with that 850mg. A lot of people on here would tell you to lower it.

**FapOLantern** · 04-15-2014, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by RangerDanger830

I wouldn't necessarily say you should do 250mg of test a week for a first cycle, that is pretty low even for a first cycle. 500mg is a happy medium. If it were me I would keep the both esters in there and just lower the dose of each a little bit so I could run it longer and everything works out. That's not to say you can't do the 850mg, no it won't be all bioavail right away but towards the end of that four weeks you would definitely be feeling it. So you can do it, I just wanted you to be aware of the risks of doing so. That way you can plan accordingly, you may have to adjust your AI dose or something like that.

I would say ten weeks is a pretty decent timeframe. You should see good results with it. Just be careful with that 850mg. A lot of people on here would tell you to lower it.

Thanks for your advice. I'll keep what you said in mind, what do you think if I half the amount of cypionate ?

**RangerDanger830** · 04-15-2014, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by FapOLantern

Thanks for your advice. I'll keep what you said in mind, what do you think if I half the amount of cypionate?

Well that is one option, I personally have never done a short ester in the front of my cycle before so I cannot say that is the best choice for you, someone else might have to make that call. I will say that seems like a pretty good option if you are wanting to play it safe with a more reasonable dose of test. That should give you a good amount of active test in you fairly quickly and by the time the prop dose is lowering then the cyp should be going up.

I would like to hear from others' experienced with front loading a short ester like this before you make a final decision. All I can say is what I would do with the knowledge and experience I have. If it were me though I would probably take all four weeks of prop like you intended. I would half the cyp for the first three weeks and the fourth week on take a full dose of cyp at 500mg a week. By the time the fourth week of cyp became completely bioavail I believe the prop would be low enough so as not to spike you t levels too much.