First Cycle Test-Prop/D-bol Help

[Muscle1988]

Hey guys,
I'm 4 days into my first cycle. I chose test-prop over a longer esther due to time constraints. My brother and I wanted to run our first cycles together and wouldn't have a chance to run a full 12 week cycle until mid next year earliest as we live in different states. So we been thinking and planning this for awhile, suddenly he had a full 7 weeks off and we decided capitalise on it, and to run a 6 week test-prop cycle w Dbol. Would never have ran test e or anything else that short. And was willing to take the risk that test prop is a little more painful and troublesome to run. But felt we were stable enough people to take this smallish risk to fit our schedules. Not afraid of pinning, not afraid of post-pain.

Stats:
Training for 5 years.
12% Bodyfat 70kg.
Good condition overall. Know how to diet and train. Do not know much about gear from experience, but have done a ton or research.

Here is the cycle
Week 1 - week 6: Test Prop 200mg EOD
: 50mg Dbol ED (split into 5 doses)
: Arimidex 0.5mg EOD

PCT Week 7-8 : Nolva 40mg
Week 9-10: Nolva 20mg

Have Clomid and extra Nolva on hand.

So everything great, and then disaster struck haha.

Problems

Soreness after the test prop shot is intense and makes training hard. Omg the weren't lying when they said prop hurts. Ok question is, do i train through it or not? If we're being babies just tell us to suck it up. But its extremely sore and sometimes when i train through it, it just doesn't feel like i'm doing the right thing. I'm not sure if anyone has any idea what the science is to this ? There are a ton of different opinions on this some say, gear crashed in muscle and formed crystals so massage and train through it, some say give it rest etc ... I'm ok with the pain, but i'm just wondering if its going to be like this the rest of the cycle, my training might be affected and then the point of running the cycle is kinda diminished. I'm concerned with doing the right thing, Im much more able to handle the pain if i know its good for me. Problem is if its actually doing me more harm than good. On the plus side, this is 4th day, and left delt (first pin) is a bit better and less red today. Right delt (pinned yesterday) is sore but not as sore as first pin was (but we used only a 100mg in an effort to find out if we could maybe start pinning 100mg each day as opposed to 200mg EOD). Just trying to find best way to go about the cycle.

Secondly, I got a slight test flu after first pin on the following day, which went away by the 3rd day. But on the 3rd day I had my 2nd pin, and today (4th) i'm not feeling great again. Will this continue ? I trained through the first bout of test-flu and felt ok, but obviously wasn't at my A-game at the gym which sucked. Today i train legs and its just a whole host of problems. Firstly i dont feel great, secondly legs gonna be sore as hell tomorrow and thats when I have my next pin which happen to be on butt or quads, and im guessing thats gonna double the soreness. And i pinned shoulders on day 1 and day 3 and tomorrow is also shoulder training and can barely lift my arms. Although left shoulder which i pinned first is doing better.

3rdly, D-bol gave me bad cramps, was ok for my bro so he's still on it. But the cramps for me were intense and made me lose appetite. So this one not up for debate, i instantly stopped the d-bol. Otherwise i wouldnlt be able to train or eat. So screw that. I will try a lower dose to 20mg as soon as this test flu ends. I dont want to complicate shit. The 2nd day of cycle. WOke up with test-flu, stomach cramps and immobile shoulder. Haha. Imagine the shock to wake up on my first cycle 2nd day thinking im gonna go train and kill it only to feel like i was dying. Anyway got up forced fed myself, and dragged myself to gym. All good, but what should i do from here on out.

Question is, should i continue with this cycle ? Is there any way to salvage it ? Should i a) work through it and re analyze at a later date, maybe it starts to ache less, maybe test flu goes away. Please note that now that first pin was 200mg, made incrediby sore. 2nd pin was 100mg in effort to see if smaller doses help recovery of soreness so can train properly. If continue on cycle, will try something like 150mg next pin and maybe keep it there EOD. So dosage of whole cycle lowered a bit. Maybe add in some 200mg pins here and there on butt shots b) give up on this cycle, which really sucks i guess c) maybe there's some other way to re-do my cycle plan and add in some test-e and maybe front-load, and backload with test prop. or something. Or start test-e now, stretch the cycle to 8 weeks by backloading on the test e on end of week 8. Basically the first day of week 8 is the last day I can pin. I have been reading a ton on esther half lives, but I understand half lives and active lives, but i to do a plan like this, i need an idea of how test accumulates. I understand that the whole reason why test-e is taking weekly is because even though test levels technically should start to rise as soon as it is injected (as esthers are cleaved off and become dissolved in lipid phase) So basically the dosage is irrelevant to how much test levels increase at one time. I'm not sure if dosing test e weekly keeps blood test levels stable ? or does it have a cumulative effect. I'm guessing there is some accumulation as people always say week4 onwards they really start to feel it, or is it just week 4 onwards people notice physical gains because thats really just that it takes muscle time to grow, and your body time to get stronger, even on steroids you will need training to grow so you can pin today, actually have effects but not feel or see any changes in strength, size but definately have mental effects etc .. and people just less sensitive to those changes and thus feel like it only hits like week 4. Anyway, my point is is there anyway to mix test prop and test e and somehow create a cycle with only 8 weeks, and week 8 day 1 is last day to pin.

Thanks in advance !! Sorry if its tons long, tried not to miss anything in terms of info !

[Muscle1988]

Gear is Thaiger Pharma Prosten. Its a mix of Test Prop, Test phenylprop, Test Acetate. Guessing it has a high BA content which explains the super soreness post injections. Am using 5/8 inch 25 gauge pin for delts. And 1 inch 23 gauge for butt. Have thin skin and low body fat

[Back In Black]

Age?

Height?

700mg test pw as a first cycle is way too high. It should also be test only.

No HCG? Clomid should be used in pct not be kept on hand.

I doubt you will but you should consider stopping your cycle and educating yourself properly. Read this

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html

[Muscle1988]

I am doing 100mg EOD. That's like 350mg per week. Hcg not necessary to some people, necessary for others. Probably less needed on such a low dose simple cycle of 350mg per week. Using nolvadex and clomid together is debateable as to whether it is better or not. What is the science to say we need both ? Half the sources say nolva by itself is fine. Bill roberts, this website itself on the beginner sample cycle says nolva alone. What on earth are u talking about.

[Muscle1988]

These aren't sources with scientific backing but neither is the source you gave me which says hcg is a must and clomid and nolva together is the way to go. I'm not opposed to these but how can you say I haven't done enough research just because my plan didn't include clomid and hcg. People are saying all kinds of different things all over the net, on every forum, on every site . Obviously I have everything on hand in case. I could always add clomid to pct easy. You want me to stop cycle because I didn't add clomid to my pct ? Lol

[Blade15]

Age?

Height?

700mg test pw as a first cycle is way too high. It should also be test only.

No HCG? Clomid should be used in pct not be kept on hand.

I doubt you will but you should consider stopping your cycle and educating yourself properly. Read this

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html

^^ agreed..whats your age and height..??

[Muscle1988]

26. 170cm.

"700mg test pw as a first cycle is way too high. It should also be test only."
Its 100mg EOD.

"No HCG ? Clomid should be used in pct not be kept on hand."
I can get HCG. Clomid I have on hand, so i can add it. I didnt add HCG because many forums and sites said its not always necessary, i thought i give it a miss this time. I can always add it. Clomid I have on hand. I didnt put into plan because some sites and forums say Nolva by itself is better, some said both together. Some said clomid by itself. All with various backing "science", "bro science" and "experience". I thought i go with the Nolva but keep clomid on hand in case someone shows me a reason beyond a doubt why clomid and nolva is the way to go.

There is a difference between lack of research and doing research and choosing a certain route. I have researched that clomid and nolva together is great. I have also researched that Clomid and Nolva together is not so good. I am not a scientist, and most of the forum posters aren't either. With gear its really a lot of taking peoples word from their experience. And i'm fine with that, but i have heard both sides. This very site, in which the forum is on, has a beginner cycle which it recommends. It says Nolva 40mg 2 weeks and then Nolva 20mg 2 weeks. The guy who i got my gear from said "why do you want clomid, you're already getting Nolva"?. Of course i want the best possible scenario, which is why I HAVE CLOMID ON HAND like i said. For instances like this. when people come on and all agree clomid and nolva is the way to go. So I can add it during PCT which is 6 weeks away. I have it on hand. I do not have to go out and look for it.

I find it so annoying when the standard response to first timers is. go do your research. I have done it. There is a lot of info out there. A ton of different experiences. Some people swear by clomid, others by nolva, others by both, others have done bloodwork and say both, some are scientist and say just one. Bill roberts has an entire article saying there is no benefit to taking both at the same time. I did my research and i chose a route. There is a difference. Furthermore, i am up to opinions and ideas and can alter my plan at any time given i have clomid on hand. I can also get HCG tomorrow from my gym partner if i wanted so i effectively have it now, so that is not a problem either. My real problems are the ones are listed above. I appreciate any help.

[Back In Black]

Can you refer me to where I said 'lack of research'?

And in your firs post you say you planned 200mg EOD then did one shot of 100mg then plan on doing 150mg EOD with 'some 200mg pins here and there'. So, in effect, you have random amounts weekly rather than a steady stream.

So, you have one thread I gave you to read, here are some more

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...njections.html

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ml#post6666415

Oh, and 154lbs at 5'7 or so sounds pretty light. Maybe you should hit up our nutrition forum too.

[Blade15]

Can you refer me to where I said 'lack of research'?

And in your firs post you say you planned 200mg EOD then did one shot of 100mg then plan on doing 150mg EOD with 'some 200mg pins here and there'. So, in effect, you have random amounts weekly rather than a steady stream.

So, you have one thread I gave you to read, here are some more

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...njections.html

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ml#post6666415

Oh, and 154lbs at 5'7 or so sounds pretty light. Maybe you should hit up our nutrition forum too.

totally agree with Back in Black^^
5'7'' you should be walking around 175/180 with 15% bf max..achieve that first then consider a cycle..

[Blade15]

Can you refer me to where I said 'lack of research'?

And in your firs post you say you planned 200mg EOD then did one shot of 100mg then plan on doing 150mg EOD with 'some 200mg pins here and there'. So, in effect, you have random amounts weekly rather than a steady stream.

So, you have one thread I gave you to read, here are some more

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...njections.html

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...ml#post6666415

Oh, and 154lbs at 5'7 or so sounds pretty light. Maybe you should hit up our nutrition forum too.

totally agree with Back in Black^^
5'7'' you should be walking around 175/180 with 15% bf max..achieve that first then consider a cycle..

[Blade15]

Sorry for repost.. internet problem..

[Muscle1988]

Alright man, i dont want to get into a useless argument. It just rubbed me the wrong way when I'm asked to educate myself and I have been reading forums, scouring the net, reading about the science of it. Its a big job seperating bro science, from science, from general consensus to lesser known protocols. Theirs Michael Scally, then theirs bill roberts, theres this forum stickys then there is like 3 other gear forum all with their own stickies. I'd appreciate it if less people just jumped to conclusions with regards to how much knowledge newbies have. I obviously put a lot of thought into it given my lengthy posts. I'm not some moron who jumped in, i understand there must be a ton given the general reaction to beginners who ask questions that seem to be "stupid". Its not about reading sometimes, its about reading too much. Its hard to filter.

I can always add to that education of course which is what i'm trying to do now. Now you say that HCG is a must. I'll add it. You said add clomid, ok I'll do that. I didnt add HCG because i have read from the forums that a lot of people do not use it and they were fine. The general idea I have been getting is that it is recommended but not a must. I didnt know it was such a crime not to take it, but now i know, so i'll take it. Clomid and Nolva, I have read countless places that have said Nolva alone, or Clomid alone, and also sources that have said use both. I think the science makes sense from what i've read with my layman understanding of it, and due to your pushing me in this direction, it has tipped me over the edge to add it. But really, if you search clomid and nolva there are tons and tons of different views. I think its understandable that I chose one over using both, but still kept the other on hand in case i changed my mind.

I agree i am on the light side. I started at 50kg though so i have put on a fair bit of muscle at 10% bf or slightly under. I just came out from a cut so i'm really lean with a decent amount of muscle mass. 5'7 is pushing it w height. Maybe a bit less, will have to measure but its close. Put on about 10kg in the first year of training and then diminishing returns after. Been bulking and cutting all through to keep me from straying too far from low-bodyfat. I just like it like that, slow gains but lean gains, dont have to diet hard after a bulk.

So now that everything is in order. What can I do from here. I will take clomid post, i will add HCG to my cycle. I have read everything you sent me. What can i do about the prop from here on out. I've got enough prop for 2 for the entire cycle. One is already open. I just need some guidance with regards to using prop. First pin on the left is still red and hurting. Swelling has gone down, and pain has gone down. It is day 4. Right delt has similar pain but much less than experienced with the first pin, no reddness yet, and just seems better overall then the experience w the left. I think maybe the 100mg dose, together w heating the vile and injecting slowly has helped. Should i be worried that the left side is red. I've been scouring the net and test prop seems to cause so many people to have reddness, and swelling and immense pain etc ... Some end up w infection, some says it goes away, seems that a lot of people just complain about it through the cycle. I mean, its just hard to filter out good from bad info. Which is why i'm posting. For help.

Appreciate it.

[Muscle1988]

One thing that really bothers me is this. Test prop tends to make the area under the injection site red. If it is just that, i can live with it. But does it increase the chances of infection. Because then i would prefer not to continue pinning and hoping the red area doesnt turn into an infection. I understand that one reason why test prop makes skin red and hot and painful is because of the BA used in it. Is this correct ? Does it increase the chance of infection or is it seperate. I look at the red part all day and just worry if its an infection. My brother who has pinned the same thing has also gotten a red patch but it is subsiding faster. Does it mean mine is infected and his body managed to overcome the inflamattion. thx

[Blade15]

Alright man, i dont want to get into a useless argument. It just rubbed me the wrong way when I'm asked to educate myself and I have been reading forums, scouring the net, reading about the science of it. Its a big job seperating bro science, from science, from general consensus to lesser known protocols. Theirs Michael Scally, then theirs bill roberts, theres this forum stickys then there is like 3 other gear forum all with their own stickies. I'd appreciate it if less people just jumped to conclusions with regards to how much knowledge newbies have. I obviously put a lot of thought into it given my lengthy posts. I'm not some moron who jumped in, i understand there must be a ton given the general reaction to beginners who ask questions that seem to be "stupid". Its not about reading sometimes, its about reading too much. Its hard to filter.

I can always add to that education of course which is what i'm trying to do now. Now you say that HCG is a must. I'll add it. You said add clomid, ok I'll do that. I didnt add HCG because i have read from the forums that a lot of people do not use it and they were fine. The general idea I have been getting is that it is recommended but not a must. I didnt know it was such a crime not to take it, but now i know, so i'll take it. Clomid and Nolva, I have read countless places that have said Nolva alone, or Clomid alone, and also sources that have said use both. I think the science makes sense from what i've read with my layman understanding of it, and due to your pushing me in this direction, it has tipped me over the edge to add it. But really, if you search clomid and nolva there are tons and tons of different views. I think its understandable that I chose one over using both, but still kept the other on hand in case i changed my mind.

I agree i am on the light side. I started at 50kg though so i have put on a fair bit of muscle at 10% bf or slightly under. I just came out from a cut so i'm really lean with a decent amount of muscle mass. 5'7 is pushing it w height. Maybe a bit less, will have to measure but its close. Put on about 10kg in the first year of training and then diminishing returns after. Been bulking and cutting all through to keep me from straying too far from low-bodyfat. I just like it like that, slow gains but lean gains, dont have to diet hard after a bulk.

So now that everything is in order. What can I do from here. I will take clomid post, i will add HCG to my cycle. I have read everything you sent me. What can i do about the prop from here on out. I've got enough prop for 2 for the entire cycle. One is already open. I just need some guidance with regards to using prop. First pin on the left is still red and hurting. Swelling has gone down, and pain has gone down. It is day 4. Right delt has similar pain but much less than experienced with the first pin, no reddness yet, and just seems better overall then the experience w the left. I think maybe the 100mg dose, together w heating the vile and injecting slowly has helped. Should i be worried that the left side is red. I've been scouring the net and test prop seems to cause so many people to have reddness, and swelling and immense pain etc ... Some end up w infection, some says it goes away, seems that a lot of people just complain about it through the cycle. I mean, its just hard to filter out good from bad info. Which is why i'm posting. For help.

Appreciate it.

You said you have been reading all stickies from this and other forums and still cant figure out what a first cycle should be like??

[Muscle1988]

Most advise to start w test-e for 12 weeks at 500mg per week. Decided to go with test-prop because it fit my schedule better and i was adventerous and thought i could handle it. Now i'm asking for advise. So anyone who does not follow the "first cycle test e 500mg per week for 12 weeks" is instantly not allowed to ask questions on this forum ? Starting to feel that way. Ok forget it.

[Muscle1988]

Bill roberts proposed a 2 week on 4 week of cycle. He said even beginners can use that. A search on the forums has quite a few posters saying it worked well. So he looks like he has enough credentials, posters who have experience with it say it worked. If i were to decide to try it because the science made sense to me automatically am i am idiot because i didnt follow the 500mg / week test e protocol ? Because its better to listen some posters but not others and some scientist but not others ? Obviously i made a decision with what made sense to me and went with that. Now im asking for advise, and all you can say is i should have done the standard over and over again. Yes if i had done the standard i probably wouldnt be here asking for further advise. You always follow the majority EVERY time ? Sometimes you dont take a chance because something made sense to you ? So what if i was wrong. I'm asking for help and all you can do is say the same shit over and over again. If you were born in china, during the commnist era because the majority believe it makes it right ? Or the nazis ? Jesus christ get off ur high horse and give me a break

[Muscle1988]

Bill roberts proposed a 2 week on 4 week of cycle. He said even beginners can use that. A search on the forums has quite a few posters saying it worked well. So he looks like he has enough credentials, posters who have experience with it say it worked. If i were to decide to try it because the science made sense to me automatically am i am idiot because i didnt follow the 500mg / week test e protocol ? Because its better to listen some posters but not others and some scientist but not others ? Obviously i made a decision with what made sense to me and went with that. Now im asking for advise, and all you can say is i should have done the standard over and over again. Yes if i had done the standard i probably wouldnt be here asking for further advise. You always follow the majority EVERY time ? Sometimes you dont take a chance because something made sense to you ? So what if i was wrong. I'm asking for help and all you can do is say the same shit over and over again. If you were born in china, during the commnist era because the majority believe it makes it right ? Or the nazis ? Jesus christ get off ur high horse and give me a break

[Muscle1988]

Ah shit sorry for double posting. Internet disconnected and reconnected and i clicked twice.

[Blade15]

^^ LOFL

[Blade15]

IF you dont want to read same shit over and over again then you dont have enough patience.. this field is about patience brotherrr...

[Muscle1988]

No i didnt mean the stickies man. I'll read that as many times. I mean harping on the fact that i ran a non-standard cycle as my first.

[Muscle1988]

yeah i ran something diff as my first. Now i got a load of prop and i'm 4 days into cycle, with a whole host of new knowledge. Now whats the plan of attack. Can i do 6 weeks of prop. 100mg EOD. Will run HCG and AI. and PCT clomid and nolva both ? Will it be an ok cycle ? Do you have any experience w prop ? Help me out brutha

[Blade15]

I am not expert here.. some vets will guide you soon to achieve what you want and whats best will be possible..

[Back In Black]

yeah i ran something diff as my first. Now i got a load of prop and i'm 4 days into cycle, with a whole host of new knowledge. Now whats the plan of attack. Can i do 6 weeks of prop. 100mg EOD. Will run HCG and AI. and PCT clomid and nolva both ? Will it be an ok cycle ? Do you have any experience w prop ? Help me out brutha

Yes you can do 6 weeks of prop but at that length I'd want to be doing 150mg EOD. It may help if you split that dosage among different sites to try and ease the pain. Maybe 75mg each delt and the next time each glute. You might need to use other sites but at 6 weeks you may be ok. My prop gives me zero PIP unless I pin my quads. Or biceps. PIP couple with EOD pinning is why most people do a longer ester cycle first.

Run your HCG yes. Clomid and nolva for pct. Run your a'dex at 0.25mg EOD to start. Drop your d'bol so you know how you react to test only.

Eat big and lift big. When you start pct you need to eat bigger and train shorter (as a rule) to try and ensure you maintain your gains.

It will still be worth your while heading to the nutrition forum.

[Blade15]

^^ Agreed totally..

[Capebuffalo]

Some people just can't run prop. I'm one of them. I don't know why. I've taken a lot of different esters no problem but prop I get painful knots. It's not worth it to me. I don't even try anymore.

Everything Back in Black said x2. Listen.

[Muscle1988]

Ok gotcha. Got my hcg and clomid. Will follow this cycle to the T and see how it pans out. Will pin glutes today. Next week will try 75mg each side instead of 150mg one side and see if it makes it more manageable. Will update in case might help other prop users. At the moment redness on left delt has gone down, which is a relief. But still a bit sore. Right has gotten a bit more sore but both still manageable . Kinda worried about getting that mild test flu feeling day after pins so will see how it goes. Hopefully body will adapt.

Appreciate the help a ton !!

[richard k]

iam 51 been doing trt started test c at 200mg week after 5 month iam at 600 week and the last 6 weeks started dbol injectable at 200 mg week and added 200mg of testprop and started to make some gains small but still gains iam going to do 6 more weeks of the dbol and test prop, then 8 week off still keeping test c at 600mg and amerdix 1mg 2 x a week then iam going to cycle tren deca test any advise

[Back In Black]

Yes, start your own thread for your terrible plan.

[richard k]

My doctor seem to think is a good start50 years uroligist

yes, start your own thread for your terrible plan.

[Muscle1988]

Ok sorry I havent been updating. Been busy with work and cycle both ! If anyone is interested here is a recap of whats been going on.

I'm now on end of week2 of my cycle. Tomorrow is the first day of week 3. So far I can say that I have felt slight strength gains, and visually i can see gains too. Training is definately a whole lot more focused. I'm suprised though that other than that I don't really feel all that much different. I guess I was expecting to be like a lot more energetic throughout the day and what not, but not really.

A couple of things have made this cycle fairly tough. I don't know how much there is out there about Test Prop, i know there is a lot of forum posts about it, but nothing really accumulated and stickied or anything (sorry if i missed it). Anyway, I can tell you that Test Prop hurts. The injection is relatively painless. But the PIP comes within 12 hours, and gets worse. I usually shoot at 12pm in the afternoon. And by 8pm i feel the onset of soreness without a doubt every other day. I'll go to sleep and the next morning it will very sore. I first shot my left delt. And i shot 200mg (a mistake that was pointed out to me and i later reduced it to 150mg). My gear is 200mg/ml so its quite concentrated. Next day my delt was insanely sore. Couldn't lift it. It took slightly over a week to come down. After the 3rd day the pain started to lessen, but the whole muscle was hard, started to turn red, and the redness and pain was migrating towards the bicep. I've read that this is either due to the BA content, or the gear crashing and crystalizing in the muscle as the oil is absorbed but the hormone is not. I am not sure if this is right or wrong, but i can tell you that prop hurts. After my left delt, i did right delt, than rotated to butt both sides and eventually quads. Everything hurt less. Right delt was better than left, butt was better than delts, and right quad was awsome. Than came left quad, and i fumbled abit with the injection, as i coudlnt aspirate, so maybe it could be because of that, but anyway, 12 hours later, i could feel the PIP coming on strong. NExt day, woke up and when i stood up my muscle just felt like someone was pulling both ends. I could barely limp around. ANd i found that the pain was most strong after changing positons. If i lay down, it was good. Then i'd stand up, and standing on it for the first time in a while the muscle would spasm or something. No good. Also, you dont realise how much we use quads. Basically everything. So hurts all the time. Anyway, so day 1 after the shot hurt, day 2 not much better, day 3 (today) its starting to feel less painful, but more red. I can hobble about with less pain. Im guessing i'll wake up tomrrow and the pain will be even lesser. Throughout everything, you keep questioning as to whether u have an infection or an abcess because prop somehow gives you all the symptoms of infection. Red, hot, painful and sometimes even itchy. But it always passes, and is healing faster as time goes on. So i assume either injecton technique is getting better, or body getting used to this stuff. I doubt its injection technique. I must say though that the left quad was a shocker, and it was one of the latest ones too.

Ok lastly, wanted to talk about test flu. I've gotten it 3 times now. With the first 2 shots, and today. I noticed that it comes the day after i shoot. And usually really hits if my body has one area that is extra painful due to PIP. Im guessing its something to do with the body thinking the gear injected is foreign or something. I didnt get test flu when i did butt, and there was barely any PIP (there was but nothing like left quad or left delt). I got test flu full on with my first shot, the second shot i got a little bit, and yesterday and today i got it pretty full on, i guess body was busy healing my left quad. Now i feel pretty much great again.

Overall been a rough ride, but i've got 5 weeks left and i've been making gains and feeling good overall. Will continue and see how everything pans out !!