Cruising vs PCT if Done Correctly

[davesah1]

Now we all know how PCT works and this forum covers it very thoroughly and strictly. But out of curiosity, how detrimental would cruising be to one's health at say a TRT dose? Hypothetically, if the person were to take a dose in the HRT range like 125mgs a week (not sure if thats a proper dose, as I'm not big into HRT being 21, but stick with me here). Also, if the person were to get their bloods dialed in and the AI dose down to a tee what would be the negatives? Impotency and hypogonadism could be fixed with HCG and then the person would never have to go through the annoying PCT drag and two-three weeks with little to no natural test. Also, since the TRT dose would be the same at the end of every cycle the AI dosing would be easy and so would the bloods. Would the HCG stop working after years of using it at a low dose? Would DHT sides still be present? Would the person have a significantly easier time maintaining gains? Anyone on here prefer to cruise?

Take money of of the picture, let's imagine this individual is Bill Gate's rich.

I'm not posting this as a snide way of self consideration, but rather a different type of topic besides "pct help," "whats a good stack," and "gyno issues."

[Times Roman]

not a big fan of cruising.

either pct or TRT, depending on your situation...

....but your body, if you don't want to risk long term health issues, needs a recovery period and to rest.

my .02

[Times Roman]

and I just checked your profile.

only 21?

OK...................

.........don't say we didn't warn you!

---Roman

[davesah1]

not a big fan of cruising.

either pct or TRT, depending on your situation...

....but your body, if you don't want to risk long term health issues, needs a recovery period and to rest.

my .02

I'm going to do a PCT, I was just curious if doing a TRT instead of PCT is much more detrimental. I'm not going on the MR. O stage unfortunately with my genetics so I'll stick to one cycle a year and the classic PCT style.

[Times Roman]

your body needs to recover and begin production of natty testosterone, especially since your hormonal system is still in the final stage of development. TRT/Cruising does not do this, as you will still be shut down.

And your are still probably a year or two away from safely cycling.

What many fail to understand is that PCT is not a magic trick. It usually works. Sometimes it fails to restore natty test production to it's previous levels.

Many here are way too over confident in their bodies ability to recover....

....either that or they naively believe it can't happen to them.

Either way, no matter how you slice it, you are still gambling...

...and sometimes, you crap out.

Good luck!
---Roman

[davesah1]

what if the person doesn't care about producing natural test but just having a natural amount from an exogenous route circulating in their system? Which is basically like TRT I think, right? Would that be any worse then restoration, thats the root of my question?

On a side note I have 16-18 year olds asking and using OTC pro-hormones and oral only cycles without any knowledge of this subject matter you discussed let alone a solid diet. I always try to get them to say no, but this generation is pretty uniformed and lacks a lot of knowledge on many things, its sad.

[Times Roman]

otc prohormones, in most cases, are crap. some are even dangerous. who knows what the long term health risks are for many of these newly created chemicals?

look mate,

I advocate the safe and intelligent use of steroids.

Any youngster willing to sacrifice natty test production for the rest of their lives for the short term benefit of a few extra pounds of LBM lacks critical thinking and a certain amount of mental clarity to think things through.

You are right in trying to get those 16 to 18 year olds from abusing AAS and instead on a solid diet and exercise protocol.

I'm willing to bet money some of the youngsters would be willing to trade 20 years off the end of their lives for an extra 20 pounds of muscle for five years....
....it's a horrible trade, yet this is how many think.

[songdog]

Bro just cycling at your age is a very risky thing.Cruising at 21 would be down right insane! Because its not the amout of the TRT dose its you being shut down that long.There is nothing written in stone that says you will ever be the same after a cycle.Especally at your age.

[davesah1]

Bro just cycling at your age is a very risky thing.Cruising at 21 would be down right insane! Because its not the amout of the TRT dose its you being shut down that long.There is nothing written in stone that says you will ever be the same after a cycle.Especally at your age.

Guys I DO NOT WANT TO CRUISE, I promise. I was saying hypothetically for example a 30 year old.

[davesah1]

otc prohormones, in most cases, are crap. some are even dangerous. who knows what the long term health risks are for many of these newly created chemicals?

look mate,

I advocate the safe and intelligent use of steroids.

Any youngster willing to sacrifice natty test production for the rest of their lives for the short term benefit of a few extra pounds of LBM lacks critical thinking and a certain amount of mental clarity to think things through.

You are right in trying to get those 16 to 18 year olds from abusing AAS and instead on a solid diet and exercise protocol.

I'm willing to bet money some of the youngsters would be willing to trade 20 years off the end of their lives for an extra 20 pounds of muscle for five years....
....it's a horrible trade, yet this is how many think.

Is it possible the kids messed themselves up if they managed to outgrow me? I was always curious. I assumed having Low T and other HPTA and pituitary issues would mean growth and sexual development issues. The one person is 6'1 now and he's 20 and the other hit 5'10. I'm 5'7 and waited to cycle until recently. Good old genetics haha. My parents are 5'4 tho and I haven't grown since I was 19.

[Times Roman]

Guys I DO NOT WANT TO CRUISE, I promise. I was saying hypothetically for example a 30 year old.

problem is with hypothetical discussions is that they have a way of becoming actual practices.

I was talking hypothetical with a young bloke a year or so ago, and then a few months later, he informed me that I gave him everything he needed to get the ball rolling.

hope you understand.

I am ethically driven. And the advice I give on the open board needs to be safe and solid...
...I sleep better at night that way.

[davesah1]

problem is with hypothetical discussions is that they have a way of becoming actual practices.

I was talking hypothetical with a young bloke a year or so ago, and then a few months later, he informed me that I gave him everything he needed to get the ball rolling.

hope you understand.

I am ethically driven. And the advice I give on the open board needs to be safe and solid...
...I sleep better at night that way.

Alrighty, I have enough college debt anyway no need to blow money for cruising on test. Was just wondering if cruising was a wrong way to go about things health wise for those that prefer it to PCT and arent in the IFBB.

[davesah1]

but based on the fact that you are hesitant to give a response I'm going to assume its optimal to PCT for the regular man.

[Times Roman]

I think you already know the answer.............

[kelkel]

this generation is pretty uniformed and lacks a lot of knowledge on many things, its sad.

If they're uninformed then they are simply lazy. The problem is they are the "instant gratification" generation. So many just want the results without having the discipline and patience to actually work for it.

[austinite]

If they're uninformed then they are simply lazy. The problem is they are the "instant gratification" generation. So many just want the results without having the discipline and patience to actually work for it.

Right on.

[Times Roman]

If they're uninformed then they are simply lazy. The problem is they are the "instant gratification" generation. So many just want the results without having the discipline and patience to actually work for it.

no shit. If I had access to this information, including diet and exercise, 35 years ago, who knows where I could have taken this thing?

Back then, I was starving for information. The books in the library were old, contradictory, or just didn't make sense. The knowledge we have of muscle tissue types, how to properly stress to maximize the growth signal, AND how to properly rest....? And no one really discussed body building nutrition, other than I knew I had to eat a lot. The guys that were big in the gym were primarily taking Abombs, knew nothing about proper cycling or PCT. The local "big guy" gym was full of guys that were very reluctant to share their knowledge. This bloke Joe Corsi asked me how I felt about oral sex in the showers? Like that would be the price I had to pay before someone could mentor me in the gym? (I don't think so....)

So yeah, I get a little peeved with this younger generation that has everything handed to them on a silver platter and still they are not happy...?

[fit2bOld]

no shit. If I had access to this information, including diet and exercise, 35 years ago, who knows where I could have taken this thing?

Back then, I was starving for information. The books in the library were old, contradictory, or just didn't make sense. The knowledge we have of muscle tissue types, how to properly stress to maximize the growth signal, AND how to properly rest....? And no one really discussed body building nutrition, other than I knew I had to eat a lot. The guys that were big in the gym were primarily taking Abombs, knew nothing about proper cycling or PCT. The local "big guy" gym was full of guys that were very reluctant to share their knowledge. This bloke Joe Corsi asked me how I felt about oral sex in the showers? Like that would be the price I had to pay before someone could mentor me in the gym? (I don't think so....)

So yeah, I get a little peeved with this younger generation that has everything handed to them on a silver platter and still they are not happy...?

How true!
I would have been really huge. Lol

[Times Roman]

How true!
I would have been really huge. Lol

my biggest issue was overtraining and lack of nutritional knowledge preventing me to sufficiently eat to grow.

....same with many, I would assume?

[Times Roman]

How true!
I would have been really huge. Lol

not only that, but I can now construct a nutrition plan in seconds that would have been nearly impossible back then. This is yours...

[< <Samson> >]

Damn man, I never even noticed you're 21


Running tren @ 21 < aight


PCT would be best, this way you can carry on with normal life in between cycles. Then cycle whenever, get your BW and so on.


As far as cruising(which is just a term for staying on), yeah it will be more fun. But, you will be damn near 100% guaranteed a life long commitment to the spike. It's kinda where I am, but I know I put myself here & have no issues with it at this time(aside from the random out of nowhere complications. . . lol). But, I'm in my mid 30's and I feel like I somewhat started to early on this staying on something for life path. All of the guys that I personally know that stay "on" are over 40< yet they look as young as me.



There's a lot to this shit. Juice is just one small part: constant BW, raised RBC over time, raised BP, skewed lipid profiles, constant pinning, HCG, Ai - I'm pretty sure I am missing a few

[qscgugcsq]

There is always two side of the story, heres the other one.

The healthiest way, is never doing steroids except if you have a medical issue in which case TRT is safer.

But for an healthy young male health wise, steroid in any way of form are more risky than natural.

However, I firmly believe that TRT/cruising is healthier/ better than cycling.
Its like being married, if you have the right one in the right circumstance everything will go smoothly.

There is risk with cycling but there is a way out.
With trt the risk are smaller but you cant get away.

I choose cruising cause high test is healthier in way WAY more way than low test. And I had low test before any steroid use.

Im not a doctor and Im not as knowledgable as TR and kelkel and MuscleInk and many others.

But thats my opinion take it or leave it.
Hoising cruise overcycling, this is a choice you have to make for yourself.
With cycling comes hormonal roller coaster, feeling like shit, loss of gain.
Return to lower test than before forcing you to go back on, and eventually still end up in TRT...
But you have True off time, if you feel good enough you can stop and never worry about it again.

Cruising is a lifetime commitement...
You must know what you are doing and must be ready to live with it forever.

For your question, longterm health I say cruising is safer.

[Back In Black]

^^^^strictly speaking you're not 'cruising' you're on TRT. Self prescribed or not you're not following the usual blast and cruise that I think the OP is on about.

[marcus300]

Such a young age to consider any to be honest but I8 guess your better of researching TRT, I'm sure it will come in handy soon enough.

[davesah1]

There is always two side of the story, heres the other one.

The healthiest way, is never doing steroids except if you have a medical issue in which case TRT is safer.

But for an healthy young male health wise, steroid in any way of form are more risky than natural.

However, I firmly believe that TRT/cruising is healthier/ better than cycling.
Its like being married, if you have the right one in the right circumstance everything will go smoothly.

There is risk with cycling but there is a way out.
With trt the risk are smaller but you cant get away.

I choose cruising cause high test is healthier in way WAY more way than low test. And I had low test before any steroid use.

Im not a doctor and Im not as knowledgable as TR and kelkel and MuscleInk and many others.

But thats my opinion take it or leave it.
Hoising cruise overcycling, this is a choice you have to make for yourself.
With cycling comes hormonal roller coaster, feeling like shit, loss of gain.
Return to lower test than before forcing you to go back on, and eventually still end up in TRT...
But you have True off time, if you feel good enough you can stop and never worry about it again.

Cruising is a lifetime commitement...
You must know what you are doing and must be ready to live with it forever.

For your question, longterm health I say cruising is safer.

This was the kind of feedback I was looking for. Just a curious thought on whether PCTing say twice a year is better or worse for someone than cruising in the TRT range.

[qscgugcsq]

^^^^strictly speaking you're not 'cruising' you're on TRT. Self prescribed or not you're not following the usual blast and cruise that I think the OP is on about.

I can consider my dose cruising cause im in the high end TRT(200mg/week) and right now Im blasting.

If someone in TRT blast I dont see the distinction between cruise and TRT.

[davesah1]

I can consider my dose cruising cause im in the high end TRT(200mg/week) and right now Im blasting.

If someone in TRT blast I dont see the distinction between cruise and TRT.

Wouldnt the health effects be the difference b/w and reason why one would cruise and blast?

[qscgugcsq]

Being on TRT at 200mg/ week is the same that cruising at 200mg/week.

However when cruising people often use more. 250mg+

More you use, more you risk issue.
If we strictly talk about test. IMO even at 1G a week, the risk can be minimized to be pretty equivalent to TRT.

But best or worst, it all depends on how you handle and how you do it.
And the only way to know for sure is Bloodwork.

[davesah1]

Being on TRT at 200mg/ week is the same that cruising at 200mg/week.

However when cruising people often use more. 250mg+

More you use, more you risk issue.
If we strictly talk about test. IMO even at 1G a week, the risk can be minimized to be pretty equivalent to TRT.

But best or worst, it all depends on how you handle and how you do it.
And the only way to know for sure is Bloodwork.

Luckily in life all drugs from recreational to steroids I handle with minimal physical side effects. not sure about my organs. Next year I think I wanna pin 750 mgs or a gram of test with the same dose of tren (500mgs). I don't want to only add an oral for four weeks (too short for my taste) and no other steroid compares to tren so if I can already handle the best what can I really do? Add masteron? Upping tren past 500mgs seems like overkill.

Test 750-1g
Tren 500mg
or?
Test 500
Tren 500
Mast 400

not looking at deca at all bc I bloat easy as it is and winny is no go bc of my shoulder joint issue
Never read much about Halotestin and everyone says EQ is ass.

All I want is to be 200 pounds and 10% BF at 5'7. Is that even maintainable natty? Considering where I am at now if I keep these gains I'll probably only need one more heavy cycle to be where I want and then I could give a shit about gear for a while.

[auswest]

Luckily in life all drugs from recreational to steroids I handle with minimal physical side effects. not sure about my organs. Next year I think I wanna pin 750 mgs or a gram of test with the same dose of tren (500mgs). I don't want to only add an oral for four weeks (too short for my taste) and no other steroid compares to tren so if I can already handle the best what can I really do? Add masteron? Upping tren past 500mgs seems like overkill. Test 750-1g Tren 500mg or? Test 500 Tren 500 Mast 400 not looking at deca at all bc I bloat easy as it is and winny is no go bc of my shoulder joint issue Never read much about Halotestin and everyone says EQ is ass. All I want is to be 200 pounds and 10% BF at 5'7. Is that even maintainable natty? Considering where I am at now if I keep these gains I'll probably only need one more heavy cycle to be where I want and then I could give a shit about gear for a while.

Maintainable naturally, if you didn't get there naturally I would suggest no, 200lb 10% 5.7 is big. Cycling steroids and coming off and relying on natural test IMO is a joke eventually all gains past what your natural hormone levels can support will be gone, which for the average human with average genetics is not much, the fitness industry is a lie, not many naturals around.

[auswest]

Also those who report gains on cycle and kept gains after cycle, these weights are generally given after pct. what about 3 months after pct, but most will be back on again by then so kept gains means nothing, I would like to hear from those a year after cycling then maintaining naturally..I think those numbers would put most people off ever using. Steroids is a long term commitment where true progress is made by maintaining high test levels all year round. Anything else is just borrowing a few extra pounds for summer to look good.

[Back In Black]

I can consider my dose cruising cause im in the high end TRT(200mg/week) and right now Im blasting.

If someone in TRT blast I dont see the distinction between cruise and TRT.

Cruising is, generally, not considered a lifelong process and is much more of a person choice. Whereas TRT is much more of a medical choice. I'm not entirely sure how long you have been self prescribing your TRT but I'd be interested to learn how long and how many blood tests you've had in order to dial yourself in properly.

You might not see a difference because you are flying at the top end of TRT and running advanced compounds on a second cycle but I do. Unless you have a medical reason for running tren!?

For me, my TRT is not a cruise it's a necessity.

[davesah1]

Also those who report gains on cycle and kept gains after cycle, these weights are generally given after pct. what about 3 months after pct, but most will be back on again by then so kept gains means nothing, I would like to hear from those a year after cycling then maintaining naturally..I think those numbers would put most people off ever using. Steroids is a long term commitment where true progress is made by maintaining high test levels all year round. Anything else is just borrowing a few extra pounds for summer to look good.

Come to think of it my first cycle I did keep the same "weight" for 6 months but I didn't look nearly as good as I did coming off. Probably just exchanged the muscle for fat over time. That's depressing.

[auswest]

Come to think of it my first cycle I did keep the same "weight" for 6 months but I didn't look nearly as good as I did coming off. Probably just exchanged the muscle for fat over time. That's depressing.

Yeah I experience the same
Scale weight is a very poor way to monitor change. Things may appear all well and good on the scales but it does not express a true picture of results. IMO cycling is pointless, I believe it is unhealthy and pointless.

[davesah1]

Yeah I experience the same
Scale weight is a very poor way to monitor change. Things may appear all well and good on the scales but it does not express a true picture of results. IMO cycling is pointless, I believe it is unhealthy and pointless.

Your advising bridging? That's first from anyone I've heard from on these forums. I going to PCT and lay off the gear for a while, but yeah I think I'm going to make the choice when I hop on again when I'm 25 or so to commit like a marriage and just stay on. Forever. The PCT is the most expensive part of the cycle and you basically paying to only look good for what 12-16 weeks?
For example you think its better to run a cycle and then keep on the test at say a modest amount, which I am not sure what that dose would be. I would guess 300-400mgs and rinse and repeat. If someone does "cruise" at a high HRT dose of say 200-250mgs would it make sense to taper your way down to that dose to maximize gain retention?

Also, then whats your take on guys that run short cycles like 6-8 weekers? Is that even more of a waste? I appreciate the feedback without flaming me. Thank you.

[auswest]

Your advising bridging? That's first from anyone I've heard from on these forums. I going to PCT and lay off the gear for a while, but yeah I think I'm going to make the choice when I hop on again when I'm 25 or so to commit like a marriage and just stay on. Forever. The PCT is the most expensive part of the cycle and you basically paying to only look good for what 12-16 weeks? For example you think its better to run a cycle and then keep on the test at say a modest amount, which I am not sure what that dose would be. I would guess 300-400mgs and rinse and repeat. If someone does "cruise" at a high HRT dose of say 200-250mgs would it make sense to taper your way down to that dose to maximize gain retention? Also, then whats your take on guys that run short cycles like 6-8 weekers? Is that even more of a waste? I appreciate the feedback without flaming me. Thank you.

I'm not advising it, as everyone's situation is different, and everyone's reasons for using may be different. But for me personally it got to a time where cycling on/off felt pointless and unhealthy. There soon becomes a time where cycling on/off starts to feel like a waste of time, attempting to maintain unnatural gains on lower than natural hormones for half the year is pointless, at this stage for me personally it is a waste trying to gain back your natural test production. It is a big commitment and not one I would choose to be on for simple reasons like pct is expensive. I made the choice for 2 reasons, 1. My latest natural test results came back at the lowest range of normal about 3-4 months post pct 2. I don't plan to stop using anytime soon. So now given that my recovery is becoming really hard and at best low end of normal, I could proberly recover better but I want to keep using steroids, so for me the answer is simple, why am I going to cycle and gain lbm for a few months then spend the next 3 months with test levels of a 60-70 year old man. Waste of time as I'm only going to get back on again without being "fully recovered" can I ever fully recover? Proberly not, am I willing to spend long enough off using to find out? No

If you want to know what I truly advise?
That would be not to touch steroids full stop, and if you have, then get out while you can. That's my honest advise.

[qscgugcsq]

I'm not advising it, as everyone's situation is different, and everyone's reasons for using may be different. But for me personally it got to a time where cycling on/off felt pointless and unhealthy. There soon becomes a time where cycling on/off starts to feel like a waste of time, attempting to maintain unnatural gains on lower than natural hormones for half the year is pointless, at this stage for me personally it is a waste trying to gain back your natural test production. It is a big commitment and not one I would choose to be on for simple reasons like pct is expensive. I made the choice for 2 reasons, 1. My latest natural test results came back at the lowest range of normal about 3-4 months post pct 2. I don't plan to stop using anytime soon. So now given that my recovery is becoming really hard and at best low end of normal, I could proberly recover better but I want to keep using steroids, so for me the answer is simple, why am I going to cycle and gain lbm for a few months then spend the next 3 months with test levels of a 60-70 year old man. Waste of time as I'm only going to get back on again without being "fully recovered" can I ever fully recover? Proberly not, am I willing to spend long enough off using to find out? No

If you want to know what I truly advise?
That would be not to touch steroids full stop, and if you have, then get out while you can. That's my honest advise.

^^^ can't like it on my phone, so Ill say it, I like this post XD

[michael30]

I'm not advising it, as everyone's situation is different, and everyone's reasons for using may be different. But for me personally it got to a time where cycling on/off felt pointless and unhealthy. There soon becomes a time where cycling on/off starts to feel like a waste of time, attempting to maintain unnatural gains on lower than natural hormones for half the year is pointless, at this stage for me personally it is a waste trying to gain back your natural test production. It is a big commitment and not one I would choose to be on for simple reasons like pct is expensive. I made the choice for 2 reasons, 1. My latest natural test results came back at the lowest range of normal about 3-4 months post pct 2. I don't plan to stop using anytime soon. So now given that my recovery is becoming really hard and at best low end of normal, I could proberly recover better but I want to keep using steroids, so for me the answer is simple, why am I going to cycle and gain lbm for a few months then spend the next 3 months with test levels of a 60-70 year old man. Waste of time as I'm only going to get back on again without being "fully recovered" can I ever fully recover? Proberly not, am I willing to spend long enough off using to find out? No

If you want to know what I truly advise?
That would be not to touch steroids full stop, and if you have, then get out while you can. That's my honest advise.

Im curious, could you please list your stats???

[michael30]

Being on TRT at 200mg/ week is the same that cruising at 200mg/week.

However when cruising people often use more. 250mg+

More you use, more you risk issue.
If we strictly talk about test. IMO even at 1G a week, the risk can be minimized to be pretty equivalent to TRT.

But best or worst, it all depends on how you handle and how you do it.
And the only way to know for sure is Bloodwork.

Your first sentence couldnt be farther from the truth. Also your statement about a gram of test. Try running a gram of test for afew years straight, then pull your bloodwork and see if you managed it as well as a trt dose.

[< <Samson> >]

The less the better

Just recently I found a guy cruising on test/tren for over two years.

Ahhhh, who needs a life span past 50 anyways?!