Something which has baffled me for years.. looking for a scientific reason please.

[guitario]

The scenario goes a little like this;

Newbie enters the forum and wants to do an oral only cycle; loads of people chime in declaring the idea to be foolhardy and offer a multitude of reasons why. That's great. One of these reasons, which I have never understood, is that you're at a greater risk of damaging your long term testosterone levels by NOT supplementing with testosterone .

My question is why?

Why does using a low dose of test, say 200mg pw, reduce the chances of long term damage compared to an equivalent dosage using another, oral only androgen. Equivalent being strength, not total mg.

To extend this question; why is taking testosterone AND an oral, safer than taking on oral alone? We all want a raging libido and to feel on top of the world, but I'm not discussing lifestyle; I am talking purely about HTPA recovery - nothing else.

I'm not looking to cycle anything. I popped back here out of curiosity as I haven't been on these forums for while.

A genuine answer based on science, not opinion is welcomed. It seems to be the one detail that is never explained when responding to these newbie questions.

[ghettoboyd]

simple answer is you are right it dosent, all taking test dose is keep you levels high or at least normal during your cycle so you don't feel lethargic while on...whatever oral you take no matter how "mild" it is will shut you down or at least suppress you enough to make you feel like shit....is that your goal to feel like crap on cycle?...at least when you include test you are giving your self the best chance at a productive cycle cus you will feel great, be stronger and in turn have your test at peak levels for better gains imho...

[Times Roman]

The scenario goes a little like this;

Newbie enters the forum and wants to do an oral only cycle; loads of people chime in declaring the idea to be foolhardy and offer a multitude of reasons why. That's great. One of these reasons, which I have never understood, is that you're at a greater risk of damaging your long term testosterone levels by NOT supplementing with testosterone.

My question is why?

Why does using a low dose of test, say 200mg pw, reduce the chances of long term damage compared to an equivalent dosage using another, oral only androgen. Equivalent being strength, not total mg.

To extend this question; why is taking testosterone AND an oral, safer than taking on oral alone? We all want a raging libido and to feel on top of the world, but I'm not discussing lifestyle; I am talking purely about HTPA recovery - nothing else.

I'm not looking to cycle anything. I popped back here out of curiosity as I haven't been on these forums for while.

A genuine answer based on science, not opinion is welcomed. It seems to be the one detail that is never explained when responding to these newbie questions.

You almost have that right.

What I tell people is that taking ANY steroid will shut down your natural testosterone production. There is a pretty good chance that with proper PCT and time, your natural testosterone production will return to normal. There are also other risks. Once your testosterone production returns, there is no guarantee it will return at the same levels. Levels may degrade due to steroid usage. Variables that contribute to this degradation are length of cycles, number of cycles, age, quality of PCT, amongst others.

The part that you are confusing is this. I tell people to TAKE testosterone with every cycle. I call it a foundation steroid, meaning every stack should be built on this foundation. By NOT taking testosterone, you run the risk of a variety of symptoms, such as depression, lethargy, sexual dysfunction, to name a few. Testosterone is fairly benign when it comes to liver damage, as opposed to orals. To overly rely on orals puts your liver at risk. yes, there are substances you can take to help mitigate liver damage, but it won't eliminate the risk.

Does this help clear up the confusion?

---Roman

[guitario]

You almost have that right.

What I tell people is that taking ANY steroid will shut down your natural testosterone production. There is a pretty good chance that with proper PCT and time, your natural testosterone production will return to normal. There are also other risks. Once your testosterone production returns, there is no guarantee it will return at the same levels. Levels may degrade due to steroid usage. Variables that contribute to this degradation are length of cycles, number of cycles, age, quality of PCT, amongst others.

The part that you are confusing is this. I tell people to TAKE testosterone with every cycle. I call it a foundation steroid, meaning every stack should be built on this foundation. By NOT taking testosterone, you run the risk of a variety of symptoms, such as depression, lethargy, sexual dysfunction, to name a few. Testosterone is fairly benign when it comes to liver damage, as opposed to orals. To overly rely on orals puts your liver at risk. yes, there are substances you can take to help mitigate liver damage, but it won't eliminate the risk.

Does this help clear up the confusion?

---Roman

Thanks for your response.

Although you have not answered my specific question. I understand everything you have explained there; but many people (not saying you) give the reason that by NOT using testosterone that the individual is at greater risk of reduced HTPA recovery compared to running an oral WITH testosterone.

I am not debating orals alone vs orals with test from a gains/lifestyle/mental/sexual sides perspective; just purely on the basis of HTPA recovery - nothing else.

I apologise in advance if you don't fully understand my question.

[michael30]

Guitario ghettoboyd and times answered the question but ill give ya the short version. Its not true!!! Yes there are benefits to running test and you should. But that statement is not true.

[guitario]

Very strange, ghettoboyd's response wasn't showing initially, but it does now.

Thanks. Logic and common sense would suggest that as far as your body goes, an androgen is an androgen and thus it will turn off the taps in response.

So the reason why a lot of people say otherwise is scaremongering? Or more likely, a section of uneducated forum members trying to sound knowledgeable by parroting things they don't fully comprehend?