Kickstarting a test c, tren e cycle

**Mcpeek2008** · 06-01-2014, 10:47 AM

I had planned on kickstarting this cycle with some dbol , but due to my source always being out of product, I was thinking of kickstarting with prop, since I already have some of it on hand. Opinions on how I would run this would greatly be appreciated. My cycle consist of 750mg of test c per week, and 600mg of tren e per week. Thanks for your time.
I have prop at 100mg x 20ml on hand btw.
All gear is hulk.

**numbere** · 06-01-2014, 11:17 AM

That's a lot of gear you plan on running. What are your stats and experance?

**brazey** · 06-01-2014, 11:24 AM

How many cycles have you run? What were they Need more info to answer.

**Mcpeek2008** · 06-01-2014, 03:42 PM

I am 215, and 12% BF. This will be my 5th cycle.
1st was test e 500 week
2nd was test e 600 week anadrol 50mg ed(4 week)
3rd was tren ace 100mg eod, test prop 150mg eod
4th was dbol 100mg ed(4 week), sust 750 week, eq 500mg week

**numbere** · 06-01-2014, 11:40 PM

There really is no need to increase tren doses every cycle. 300-400mg of tren will produce great effects without all the infamous side effects. A little of tren goes a long way because its 5 times stronger then test. 600mg/week of tren is equivelent to 3,000mg/week test. Are you open to the idea of using less tren? Maybe someing similar to your third cycle.

What is your plan for PCT? Are you going to use an AI, PA, hCG ?

**Mcpeek2008** · 06-02-2014, 07:57 AM

Yeah I'm open, can always save the extra tren . Have hcg for during and after cycle, arimidex , caber. Nolva clomid pct the usual

**numbere** · 06-02-2014, 01:29 PM

hCG is repressive so I we wouldn't advise using it during PCT.

Your chosen compounds in the OP make formulating a good cycle difficult and complicated. Test c and tren e usually take around 5 weeks to fully begin working. Im not sure you have enough test p to kick start that cycle.

How about using test p with tren a for the entire cycle. You could run the test at a TRT dosage and the tren at a higher dosage using it as the primary anabolic compound.

**clarky.** · 06-02-2014, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by numbere

hCG is repressive so I we wouldn't advise using it during PCT.

Your chosen compounds in the OP make formulating a good cycle difficult and complicated. Test c and tren e usually take around 5 weeks to fully begin working. Im not sure you have enough test p to kick start that cycle.

How about using test p with tren a for the entire cycle. You could run the test at a TRT dosage and the tren at a higher dosage using it as the primary anabolic compound.

He has got enough to kick start with prop 3/4 ml eod for 5wks = 15ml.

**numbere** · 06-02-2014, 02:44 PM

Thanks clarky, I stand corrected. I was assuming that OP would want to kick start at a higher dosage.

So you could run the prop at .75-100mg EOD along with a maintenance dose of cyp and a higher dosage of tren .

**SEOINAGE** · 06-02-2014, 04:22 PM

Why bother with the prop, just front load your test and tren .

**Mcpeek2008** · 06-03-2014, 06:36 AM

Thank you numbere and Clark. I will consider that. At what doses would you suggest front loading the tren and test cy. Just trying to get my blood levels up quick. Finally, numbere had said this would be hard with a kickstart because of the compounds, what would you suggest as a kickstart? Dbol is pretty much ALWAYS out of stock at hulk gear, but I was considering turinabol . Certainly don't want abombs. Open to suggestions.

**numbere** · 06-03-2014, 04:14 PM

To frontload you double your weekly dose just for the first week. Then continue your regular dose there after.

IMO I wouldn't front load with tren e, because if your using it as the primary anabolic at a high dose any negative sides will hit you all at once.

I think you would be better off kick starting with the prop or another AS.

**SEOINAGE** · 06-03-2014, 05:33 PM

That's not exactly how you front load. But good idea on not front loading the tren . I just don't see the point in messing with the prop.

**Mcpeek2008** · 06-04-2014, 07:17 AM

I may do away with the kickstart after much debate. Will probably just run a 750 test c/ 400 tren e cycle and keep it simple again. Maybe throw alittle something at the end to harden out.

**KBD** · 06-04-2014, 07:18 AM

Just get some dbol like 3-4 weeks worth. 25 mg a day

**gym_junki** · 06-04-2014, 10:04 AM

Why can't he use hcg during pct?

**numbere** · 06-04-2014, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by gym_junki

Why can't he use hcg during pct?

I didn't say can't. I said that I would advise against it's use during PCT.

hCG mimics LH which keeps our leydig cells active during cycle. If hCG is used during PCT it would be repressive to natural LH production. It's counterproductive to repress a process that we're trying to restore.

**mewalrus** · 06-04-2014, 12:05 PM

Frontload long esters and finish off the cycle with 3 weeks of prop. That way the long esters will have cleared and your body will be more receptive to pct.

**Firefighter33** · 06-04-2014, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by numbere

I didn't say can't. I said that I would advise against it's use during PCT.

hCG mimics LH which keeps our leydig cells active during cycle. If hCG is used during PCT it would be repressive to natural LH production. It's counterproductive to repress a process that we're trying to restore.

Just to reinforce your words, Austinite's words. If a Mod replace the text with the proper link, will be better.

What Is hCG ?

hCG stands for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin . This is a hormone produced in pregnant women. It's extracted from their urine.

- Human is obviously, human.
- Chorionic references the Chorion, which is a membrane that surrounds the fetus of pregnant females.
- Gonadotrophins references Luteinizing Hormones (LH) in this case.

Why you should use hCG ON cycle:

If you listened to me in the introduction of this thread, you would have read the HPTA segment in the linked thread above. So I'm typing with that assumption.

We know that steroids shut down production of LH at the pituitary. This means you no longer produce natural testosterone because there's nothing to stimulate your Leydig Cells in the testes. The reason your testicals normally look "full", is because they're loaded with testosterone. When your natural testosterone production is suppressed, your testes atrophy (shrink), because they're empty. Make sense?

Injecting hCG results in a "mimicked" LH. So although your pituitary gland is not secreting LH, your leydig cells, in the presence of hCG, are stimulated by the mimicked LH and begin to produce testosterone. So there's your solution for preventing testicular atrophy while on cycle. But there's more to hCG than just reversing atrophy. Let's have a quick look at some other reasons to use hCG.

Benefits of hCG during your cycle:

1. Prevention of testicular atrophy.
-- This is done by mimicking LH and restarting natural testosterone production in the testes.

2. Speed up recovery.
-- This is done by mimicking LH so that your Leydig cells remain stimulated. More on this in the next segment.

3. Balances hormonal fluctuation. (Mainly TRT patients and dose dependant)
-- By strategically timing hCG injections, you will prevent "dips" in serum levels.

4. hCG in involved in the process of production for DHEA, Cortisol and Pregnenolone.
-- A host of benefits here. These benefits will combat fatigue and stress, betters your mood, has a role in energy, reduced cardiovascular risk, immune stimulation, betters memory, and more.

Leydig Cell Desensitization:

Desensitization basically means unresponsive. Your Leydig cells are stimulated by the LH signal. If they no longer respond to LH, you will not produce testosterone.

There are 2 ways that could potentially desensitize Leydig Cells:

1. Prolonged LH deprivation: When you inject steroids, your LH production is halted at the pituitary, remember? So if you continue in a suppressed state for weeks upon weeks, your Leydig Cells could potentially become unresponsive, or desensitized. It is possible to reverse desensitization of the cells, but that has been proven to be quite a difficult task. So when you use hCG on cycle, the mimicked LH analog will maintain stimulation of Leydig cells so that you don't run the risk of rendering them useless. This level of maintenance will ensure a much healthier and speedy recovery and one of the most important reasons to use hCG on cycle.

2. Over stimulation of Leydig cells: There is no reason to use more than 500 IU of hCG at one time. And certainly not a good idea to run even that dose on a daily basis. You do not have an unlimited-ever-flowing-supply of Leydig cells. There is only so much stimulation hCG can do. What happens when you dose hCG really high, is that you're increasing intra-testicular estrogen. So you're thinking that you could use an aromatase inhibitor in that case, right? Nope. AI's are not effective treatment for intra-testicular e2. Furthermore; high doses is a surefire way to desensitize Leydig Cells. So we have a double whammy here. And this is just another reason to use hCG on cycle, and not "blast" hCG post cycle leading up to and/or during PCT.

^ If either of the events above occur, you would become hypogonadal (Low T). This is called dingdong-induced Primary Hypogonadism. You're the dingdong by the way. But wait, there's more...

Why You Should Not Use hCG Post Cycle:

Let's establish what we are trying to accomplish here. You just got done with your cycle and you've been suppressed for however many weeks. We want to bring our natural HPTA back to life, can we all agree on that? If you said no, please ask Mom if she dropped you on your head when you were a baby. Moving on...

hCG is suppressive! Since we know that hCG mimics LH, then we know that in the presence of exogenous LH, the pituitary gland will not produce LH. Hang on a minute! You see that word in blue above? It says "natural". So which one is natural? The one I just induced by using hCG, or the one coming from the pituitary? Doh! The pituitary of course! So why? Why on earth would you want to suppress your pituitary with hCG when you're trying to recover?! "Ain't nobody got time for dat!" Are we clear on this one, folks? If you said no, you know what to do...

So next time you meet Rich Piana. Tell him that he is a dingdong, and he's hurting a lot of people with his statements. Please, Rich. stop hurting people. (Jon Stewart voice)

SERMS! Clomid and Nolva are not suppressive. In fact, they work on your brain to help the pea sized gland pump out your precious LH. That is all you should be using for PCT. Otherwise, it would be like walking into a closed door and never being able to get inside. Would you constantly walk into a door without being able to get inside? Wait... that's doing the wrong thing over and over again. I'm pretty sure that's referred to as insane. Ok, enough comedy. Lame, I know. Sorry, I'm not kelkel.