Question about Oxandrolone Cylce

[mesophyte]

Hello all!

I'm a new poster but I've been lurking around the forums for a while...

I'll be starting the following cycle in a couple of weeks when I get back from travelling:

1-6 60mg oxandrolone
5-6 25mg mesterolone
7-8 50mg mesterolone

Some stats:

Height: 5'9
Weight: 170lbs
BF: ~10%

I follow the "Slow Carb" diet (as described by Timothy Ferriss)

I've been training off and on for roughly 2 years. Currently I train 5 days per week. I do not do cardio (considering adding it back in during my cycle).

I am looking to lower my bf % further while increasing lean mass with quality.

(btw, I am aware that adding testosterone would significantly improve results, that it should be the base of all cycles, etc. My reason for not adding it in has nothing to do with it being an injectable. I did not add it in because this is my first cycle and I want to minimize the hpta suppression while seeing how my body reacts on just oxandrolone and oxan + masterolone. I thought about this a lot and decided not to include it this time around. I am aware that there will be some suppression anyways.)

The question:

I am travelling and away from the gym. I'll be unable to train properly for roughly 2 weeks. Would it be worthwhile to add on an extra couple of weeks to my cylce and start now with a lower dose of oxandrolone (maybe 20mg per day) until I get back?

It would then look like:

1-2 20mg oxandrolone (diet but no gym during these first 2 weeks)
3-6 60mg oxandrolone
5-6 25mg masterolone
7-8 50mg masterolone

[itsjayman02]

Hello all!

I'm a new poster but I've been lurking around the forums for a while...

I'll be starting the following cycle in a couple of weeks when I get back from travelling:

1-6 60mg oxandrolone
5-6 25mg masterolone
7-8 50mg masterolone

Some stats:

Height: 5'9
Weight: 170lbs
BF: ~10%

I follow the "Slow Carb" diet (as described by Timothy Ferriss)

I've been training off and on for roughly 2 years. Currently I train 5 days per week. I do not do cardio (considering adding it back in during my cycle).

I am looking to lower my bf % further while increasing lean mass with quality.

(btw, I am aware that adding testosterone would significantly improve results, that it should be the base of all cycles, etc. My reason for not adding it in has nothing to do with it being an injectable. I did not add it in because this is my first cycle and I want to minimize the hpta suppression while seeing how my body reacts on just oxandrolone and oxan + masterolone. I thought about this a lot and decided not to include it this time around. I am aware that there will be some suppression anyways.)

The question:

I am travelling and away from the gym. I'll be unable to train properly for roughly 2 weeks. Would it be worthwhile to add on an extra couple of weeks to my cylce and start now with a lower dose of oxandrolone (maybe 20mg per day) until I get back?

It would then look like:

1-2 20mg oxandrolone (diet but no gym during these first 2 weeks)
3-6 60mg oxandrolone
5-6 25mg masterolone
7-8 50mg masterolone

First off read the stickies

Next read the profiles

But without even knowing your age ....you have been training on and off which tells me not consistently.

So either way imo you should hold off!!

[mesophyte]

First off read the stickies

Next read the profiles

But without even knowing your age ....you have been training on and off which tells me not consistently.

So either way imo you should hold off!!

I'm 27 years old, I've read the profiles, by off and on I mean that there were brief "off" periods (of a couple weeks each) due to travel but I have essentially been at it quite consistenly. No I have not reached my genetic threshold but my question is not about whether or not I should cycle or even what cycle I should do. I am asking, based on the info provided and the planned cycle, if it would be worthwhile to start 2 weeks early (extending the cycle) with a lower Oxan dose while travelling and away from the gym.

[itsjayman02]

I'm 27 years old, I've read the profiles, by off and on I mean that there were brief "off" periods (of a couple weeks each) due to travel but I have essentially been at it quite consistenly. No I have not reached my genetic threshold but my question is not about whether or not I should cycle or even what cycle I should do. I am asking, based on the info provided and the planned cycle, if it would be worthwhile to start 2 weeks early (extending the cycle) with a lower Oxan dose while travelling and away from the gym.

I would start after and run fir a solid 6-8 weeks

Good dose for me is around 70mg ed but depending on the quality some run at 100mg

Add T3 and a dose of cardio and bobs your uncle!!

[itsjayman02]

I would start after and run fir a solid 6-8 weeks

Good dose for me is around 70mg ed but depending on the quality some run at 100mg

Double post

[numbere]

To answer your question you shouldn't run this cycle for an extra two weeks because it doesn't make any sense. If you can't workout for the first two weeks then you shouldn't start at that time. Begin your cycle when you have access to the gym. If you do go through with this cycle you should still run a proper PCT of clomid and nolva.

There are some members on here who say var doesn't shut their HTPA down. You have no way of knowing how you'll react to var without taking it and then getting BW. If not, it's a bit like playing Russian roulette. Unless your paying upwards of $50/day for your var then it's likely under dosed dbol, and I'm sure you're aware that dbol only cycles are horrible.

You state that the purpose for running this cycle is to "minimize HTPA suppression". If thats true then you should think about cycling test p for 8 weeks while using hCG. You'll see much better results, get to experience how your body reacts to test, and if you have any problems during cycle this forum can better help. I'm sure you know what type of responses you'll get if you come back here in a month and say that you're having problems on a var only cycle.

[mesophyte]

I would start after and run fir a solid 6-8 weeks

Good dose for me is around 70mg ed but depending on the quality some run at 100mg

Add T3 and a dose of cardio and bobs your uncle!!

Thanks! I'm leaning towards 60mg since it is my first cycle but I haven't decided. I might do anywhere from 60mg to 80mg. Have not considered adding T3 though. I'll look into it but I had planned on keeping this as simple as possible so that I am better able to make adjustents in subsequent cycles. If I mix it up too much I won't know what worked and what didn't and I'm already including masterolone for part of the cycle too...

If you can't workout for the first two weeks then you shouldn't start at that time. Begin your cycle when you have access to the gym.

Ok, thanks! It is what I thought, I'll just wait it out. It wasn't very bright of me to even consider it now that I've thought about it more.

you should still run a proper PCT of clomid and nolva.

I'm still planning my TPC but I'm aware I'll need to do something, yes.

There are some members on here who say var doesn't shut their HTPA down. You have no way of knowing how you'll react to var without taking it and then getting BW.

Exactly, the idea is to see how it works on its own (/with masterolone since it is in part of the cycle). If it works well for me with minimal suppression, great! If not, I'll know to make some adjustments next time, add test, etc. I've gotten pre-cycle BW done already, spoken to my endocrinologist about what I'm doing and have already scheduled a post-cycle follow-up for more BW. While far from having medical approval, I am doing this under medical supervision and with detailed BW.

Unless your paying upwards of $50/day for your var then it's likely under dosed dbol,

This is from a trusted lab, pharmaceutical grade regulated by the ministry of public health, in the original packaging with security seal, holographic label, verification numbers, even the original box and inserts. I'm pretty sure it isn't anything other than oxandrolone but although expensive, it does not cost nearly $50 per day here in my country.

You state that the purpose for running this cycle is to "minimize HTPA suppression". If thats true then you should think about cycling test p for 8 weeks while using hCG. You'll see much better results, get to experience how your body reacts to test, and if you have any problems during cycle this forum can better help.

I'll consider it for my next cycle, thanks!

[Back In Black]

If it's true pharma grade then you'll likely need no more than 40mg per day.

[Times Roman]

where's the testosterone?

[Bonaparte]

Wait, so you're using Proviron for the last 4 weeks instead of PCT drugs or anything useful?

[fit2bOld]

This is not good.....

[mesophyte]

If it's true pharma grade then you'll likely need no more than 40mg per day.

Really? All the dosage guidelines I've seen tend to recommend doses of 80 to 100mg per day for men... Is that assuming inferior product?

What is masterolone?

*mesterolone (proviron)

This is not good.....

Are you referring to the testosterone?

where's the testosterone?

I didn't want this thread to become another one of those...I know there are plenty on here already. I really was just asking about adding those extra couple of weeks while I'm travelling (which I have already decided against).

But, since it has already become about the testosterone issue, I'll get into it and say that I am reconsidering my cycle yet again.

I really would like some guidance but I see people react so harshly about this topic and respond by saying to do more research. Well, more research is exactly the reason why I am so uncertain about this. It's incredible that there can be so much conflicting information. It seems that the more I read, the less I know.

Oxandrolone profile on this website:

...even in a very high dosage this compound does not influence the body's own testosterone production. To make this clear: Oxandrolone does not suppress the body's own hormone production. The reason is that it does not have a negative feedback mechanism on the hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis, meaning that during the intake of Oxandrolone, unlike during the intake of most anabolic steroids, the testes signal the hypothalamus not to reduce or to stop the release of GnRH (gonadotropin releasing hormone) and LHRH Luteinizing hormone releasing hormone). This special feature of Oxandrolone can be explained by the fact that the substance is not converted into estrogen Oxandrolone (Anavar), when given to normal men in high doses does not reduce the seminal volume or count, nor can it be converted (aromatized) into estrogen.

Mesterolone profile on this website:

lets talk about how Proviron affects your HPTA ... When a reasonable dose of this stuff is given ... it had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels...it can even raise your LH! Thus, by not suppressing those hormones and maybe even raising some, your normal testosterone levels will remain intact. ...in yet another study, administration of Proviron ... produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL.

Based on this and on information from many other sources from websites in my country and english language sites, I thought this would be an okay approach. I'd be playing it safe while still ennhancing my progress, even if less than with test.

I have gone through the posts about var-only cycles on this forum (and others) and they only cause confusion.

For example, comments on var-only cycles from this forum:

There are no benefits to not running test, so why would you not?

I thought that running test would pretty much shut down the hpta which is exactly what I want to avoid.

If you don't want to inject now, why would you take something that could potentially cause you low testosterone and end up NEEDING to inject every week for the rest of your life?

So now oxandrolone without a test base can cause permanent hpta shut down and running it alongside test is the solution???? This does not make any sense to me but no one seemed to question this post. Is this true?

Then others post things like:

I've done Anavar only cycles before with good results. But I also did HCG and a full PCT.

So it is okay to cycle oxandrolone without test as long as I include HCG and do proper PCT?

I think that many testo-maniacs on this forum will push testosterone into your cycle at any cost. Yes, it will make the cycle more effective, and you will be able to have sex every day (or perhaps several times a day LOL), but it will complicate recovery (because your endogenous testosterone will be far more markedly suppressed) and it may also exacerbate androgenic side effects, if you are sensitive to it.

...

There are more of these from both sides of the argument all over this and other forums, all just adding to the confusion.

[mesophyte]

Wait, so you're using Proviron for the last 4 weeks instead of PCT ****s or anything useful?

I didn't include details on my PCT protocol in the post because I am still looking into it. I may include both nolva and clomid, using mesterolone only as an adjunct during the last two weeks of the cycle and first two weeks of pct (for a total of 4 weeks). I want to look into some more information first. I read some things about both clomiphene and tamoxifen that I did not like.

[Times Roman]

I agree it can be confusing regarding all the misinformation on var. Var will suppress natty test production, partially at lower doses, fully at higher doses.

If you do not believe me, this is direct from the manufacture's website:

Testosterone Side Effects of Anavar:

Anabolic steroids suppress natural testosterone production. The rate of suppression will be dependent on the steroids being used and their total doses. In the case of Oxandrolone, the side effects of Anavar are relatively mild in this regard. However, they're still strong enough to warrant exogenous testosterone supplementation in most men. Anavar will not result in total suppression, but a moderate dose will result in total serum levels being suppressed by approximately 50%. This is enough suppression to result in testicular atrophy, and regardless of how special you may feel, it will occur.

The side effects of Anavar in relation to testosterone suppression are of no concern when exogenous testosterone is applied. By administering the testosterone hormone, there is no risk of a low testosterone condition that might very well otherwise occur. Further, once the use of Anavar has been discontinued along with all anabolic steroids, natural testosterone production will begin again. This will also reverse testicular atrophy. Natural testosterone recovery is dependent, however, on no damage occurring during anabolic steroid use to the HPTA due to improper practices. It also assumes no prior low testosterone condition existed. It should also be noted: women do not need to concern themselves with exogenous testosterone therapy when using Anavar.

Anavar Side Effects - Anavars .com

anyone that has ever taken a var only cycle as their first cycle will tell you their testicles still shrunk, a pretty big clue of being shut down.

Good luck!
---Roman

[mesophyte]

anyone that has ever taken a var only cycle as their first cycle will tell you their testicles still shrunk, a pretty big clue of being shut down.

Thanks Roman, I appreciate the info. How low a dose of test do you think would be enough?

Does the degree of suppression caused by test depend on the amount injected? For example, will a low dose stop all production or does the amount need to exceed some level in the body before the testicles stop producing test naturally?

test + oxandrolone will still result in testicular atrophy during the cycle, right? How much shrinkage are we talking about, is it very noticeable? I would very much like to prevent this, maybe with HCG?

[Times Roman]

Thanks Roman, I appreciate the info. How low a dose of test do you think would be enough? - enough to cover your natty test production. the male can produce between 7 & 10 mg/day. So you could easily get by with 100mg/week.

Does the degree of suppression caused by test depend on the amount injected? For example, will a low dose stop all production or does the amount need to exceed some level in the body before the testicles stop producing test naturally? - try to visualize the thermostat on your house. Your body is like that thermostat. Although each male has a preset "temperature" that will shut on/off natty test production, the exact amount depends on the individual. Once the exogenous testosterone exceeds this preset amount, your body begins shutting down natty production. Once you get past this preset amount, it really doesn't matter if you take 200mg or 1000mg, the natty test production is in the OFF position. Of course, this is an over simplification, but it does illustrate the basic process.
test + oxandrolone will still result in testicular atrophy during the cycle, right? How much shrinkage are we talking about, - shrinkage to prepubery levels. is it very noticeable? I would very much like to prevent this, maybe with HCG?

see my response in RED

[VegasBody]

To answer your question you shouldn't run this cycle for an extra two weeks because it doesn't make any sense. If you can't workout for the first two weeks then you shouldn't start at that time. Begin your cycle when you have access to the gym. If you do go through with this cycle you should still run a proper PCT of clomid and nolva.

There are some members on here who say var doesn't shut their HTPA down. You have no way of knowing how you'll react to var without taking it and then getting BW. If not, it's a bit like playing Russian roulette. Unless your paying upwards of $50/day for your var then it's likely under dosed dbol, and I'm sure you're aware that dbol only cycles are horrible.

You state that the purpose for running this cycle is to "minimize HTPA suppression". If thats true then you should think about cycling test p for 8 weeks while using hCG. You'll see much better results, get to experience how your body reacts to test, and if you have any problems during cycle this forum can better help. I'm sure you know what type of responses you'll get if you come back here in a month and say that you're having problems on a var only cycle.

X2 this guy is good
U got your answers

[Othello]

Meso

IMO, for your first cycle, go with Test E or P, 500Mg per week and HCG and adex. have a solid PCT protocol and you are there.

save the money for future cycles and for when you have had enough cycles under your belt to be able to know how well your body reacts to and add more compounds.

if you worry about your HPTA, all those drugs you mentionned will shut you down. this is why its recommended to have test as a base for every cycle, at a minimum TRT dose just to cover the HPTA shutdown part. Test and HcG during cycle will keep you well, your dick functioning, and your balls size regular. then hit a good PCT and you are done.

there are two ways to learn. either you experiment on yourself (and bear the consequences, loss of time and side effects) or learn from others experiences which is I guess why you posted on this forum.

what those guys are talking about is proven scientifically solid facts. Id follow their advice if I were you.

cheers

[mesophyte]

Thanks everyone, this is being very helpful!

I am taking your suggestions.

How does the following cycle look? Keep in mind that my goal is to put on lean mass with quality while reducing body fat, preventing testicular atrophy and hpta suppression as much as possible and facilitating a quick recovery of the hpta.

Week 1-6 test prop 25mg EOD (roughly 75-100mg per week)
Week 1-6 HCG 125iu twice weekly (250iu per week)*
Week 1-6 pharma grade oxandrolone 60mg ED (20mg every 8 hours)
Week 1-6 Anastrozole 0.25mg EOD (starting from day 2)
Week 5-6 mesterolone 25mg ED

Once the cycle finishes, PCT:

Day 1 to 14 mesterolone 50mg ED
Day 3 to 10 clomiphene 75mg ED
Day 3 to 10 tamoxifen 40mg ED
Day 11 to 31 clomiphene 50mg ED
Day 11 to 31 tamoxifen 20mg

Also:
Week 1-10 NAC 600mg ED

*As for the low dose of HCG:

Use the least amount that works for you.

I figure I can always add a third day per week if I notice any shrinkage. I'd rather not risk over stimulation of the leydig cells. Any reason not to start low?

What about Hematocrit levels? Is that something to worry about on this cycle? My current levels are 44%.

[numbere]

I would personally do a 8 week test p cycle if I were you, but 6 weeks or 8 weeks is only a matter of preference. The any gains you make, lean or bulk, will be dictated by your diet.

hCG should be dosed at 250IU 2x/week (500IU week total). I'm not pulling these numbers out of the air. This is the protocol being prescribed to TRT patients.

Drop the oxandrolone and mesterolone completely from your cycle. Use Test p at 150mg/EOD. Test should be the only AS for your first cycle. Refer to my previous post for the logic behead test only first cycles.

PCT should begin 3 day after your last pin when using a short ester. Drop the mesterolone from PCT. There is much debate whether or not mesterolone is suppressive, I would rather not get into that discussion. It is an out dated drug as there are better products to take for enhancing libido.

A normal hematocrit level for men is 45%. You shouldn't worry about this while on this cycle but you should be mindful. Have you blood checked mid cycle and post PCT. If your level is high then donate blood.

[mesophyte]

Thanks!

hCG should be dosed at 250IU 2x/week (500IU week total)

I can do 250iu x 2 days per week of HcG, I was just wondering if there is any downside to starting a bit lower than that and increase as needed...

Drop the oxandrolone and mesterolone completely from your cycle. Use Test p at 150mg/EOD. Test should be the only AS for your first cycle

I'm quite set on running an oxandrolone cycle. Test p in this case is just as a base. I'm not interested in running a test p cycle. Oxandrolone is the substance that I am most interested in and that set me off on this path so I am really not prepared to drop it. Plus, I have already spend a lot of money on it. (which doesn't mean I can't save it for another cycle but I just don't want to.)

Drop the mesterolone from PCT. There is much debate whether or not mesterolone is suppressive

I can definitely take your advice about dropping the mesterolone from the PCT. Actually, I can drop it altogether if the general consensus is against it. Between the oxan, the test base and the hcg, the mesterolone does seem a bit excessive...

A normal hematocrit level for men is 45%. You shouldn't worry about this while on this cycle but you should be mindful. Have you blood checked mid cycle and post PCT. If your level is high then donate blood.

Blood donations / phlebotomies are the only way to deal with high hematocrit? Do you think it is unlikely to come to that on this kind of cycle?

[numbere]

Blood donations / phlebotomies are the only way to deal with high hematocrit? Do you think it is unlikely to come to that on this kind of cycle?

Yes, donating blood and phlebotomies are the only solutions to high hematocrit levels. Oxygen deprivation is the main cause of high hematocrit levels. Unless you smoke, suffer from sleep apnea, or become dehydrated it's unlikely that you will have issues with your RBC.

[mesophyte]

Thanks everyone for your help!

This thread has kind of gone off topic from the original post which was about extending a cycle while away from the gym... Which I now realize is a stupid thing to do.

I guess I hijacked my own thread! So, I'm going to post one specifically about the new cycle separately.