oxan / test prop / hcg cycle

[mesophyte]

Hello

Thanks to the suggestions some of you gave me on another thread, I've put together a new plan for my cycle. Please let me know if you think it looks good or if more changes should be made.

My goal is to put on lean mass with quality while reducing body fat.
I'd like to prevent side effects like testicular atrophy as much as possible and facilitate a quick recovery of the hpta.

Stats:
Age: 27
Height: 5'9
Weight: 170lbs
BF: ~10%

Week 1-6 test prop 25mg EOD (roughly 75-100mg per week)*
Week 1-6 HCG 125iu twice weekly (250iu per week)**
Week 1-6 pharma grade oxandrolone 60mg ED (20mg every 8 hours)
Week 1-6 Anastrozole 0.25mg EOD (starting from day 2)
Week 5-6 mesterolone 25mg ED***

EDIT:
UPDATED CYCLE
Week 1-6 test prop 100mg Mon, Wed, Fri (300mg per week)
Week 1-6 HCG 250iu twice weekly (500iu per week)**
Week 1-6 pharma grade oxandrolone 60mg ED (20mg every 8 hours)
Week 2-6 Anastrozole 0.25mg EOD (started from mid 2nd week because of mail delay)

I am interested in re-evaluating my test dose and also the length of my cycle, looking for feedback.

Once the cycle finishes, PCT:

Day 1 to 14 mesterolone 50mg ED***
Day 3 to 10 clomiphene 75mg ED
Day 3 to 10 tamoxifen 40mg ED
Day 11 to 31 clomiphene 50mg ED
Day 11 to 31 tamoxifen 20mg

Also:
Week 1-10 NAC 600mg ED
Week 2-9 Organ shield, 1 cap per day (1/2 dose)

*Low dose just to make up for the hpta suppression from the oxandrolone. I was told that 100mg per week should be sufficient for this purpose.

**As for the low dose of HCG:
I'd rather not risk over stimulation of the leydig cells by starting too high. I figure I can increase in increments of up to 500iu weekly if I don't think it is working (if I notice shrinkage). Does this make sense?

***It was recommended to me to remove mesterolone from PCT and I am considering removing it entirely from the cycle too. Looking for some more feedback.

Thanks for the help!

[VegasBody]

That much test wont do much for U

[mesophyte]

That much test wont do much for U

I based that amount on the feedback below. It is just meant to make up for the hpta suppression from the oxandrolone.

How low a dose of test do you think would be enough? enough to cover your natty test production. the male can produce between 7 & 10 mg/day. So you could easily get by with 100mg/week.

[mesophyte]

Interesting that the advice on the local forums in my country is different than the advice on the english forums.

A couple of people have recommended dropping Clomid because of the sides, saying that nolva will be enough on this "light" cycle. I've even gotten feedback about dropping the anastrazole.

If I can get away with not taking clomid, and anastrozole, I prefer it. On the other hand, I want to do things right.

I really respect the people on this forum, I think you guys know your stuff and I'm curious as to what you guys think on here. Is this cycle good as it is? Can I really drop clomid and anastrozole?

[VegasBody]

If U are cutting then what times roman says is fine but ur already %10 bf
I just finished a same cycle
but i did 200 mg test (im on trt)60 mg Anavar do ur g2g

[VegasBody]

So Ur good to go
They say masteron is only good if ur already a low bf which ur ..maybe throw it in at end

[VegasBody]

From anavar u will not see much mass thats why i said not enough test

[mesophyte]

If U are cutting then what times roman says is fine but ur already %10 bf
I just finished a same cycle
but i did 200 mg test (im on trt)60 mg Anavar do ur g2g

So Ur good to go
They say masteron is only good if ur already a low bf which ur ..maybe throw it in at end

From anavar u will not see much mass thats why i said not enough test

I was considering mesterolone (proviron ), not masteron . You think mesterolone/proviron is worth considering? I prefer to keep the test at the minimum effective dose to make up for the oxandrolone / anavar suppression. You agree that for this purpose 100mg per week is sufficient?

I've gotten feedback that the AI might not be necessary
I've also gotten feedback that it would be better to drop the clomid and PCT only with nolva. Thoughts?

I'd like to finalize my order with my contact this week and wanted to know if anyone has any other comments about this cycle before I do so. I really appreciate the feedback.

Right now it looks like:


Week 1-6 test prop roughly 100mg per week (divided and administered on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday)
Week 1-6 HCG 250iu per week (divided and administered on Monday and Friday)
Week 1-6 pharma grade oxandrolone 60mg per day (divided and taken in 20mg doses every 8 hours)
Week 1-6 Anastrozole 0.25mg EOD (starting from day 2)


Once the cycle finishes, PCT:

Day 3 to 10 clomiphene 75mg ED
Day 3 to 10 tamoxifen 40mg ED
Day 11 to 31 clomiphene 50mg ED
Day 11 to 31 tamoxifen 20mg

Also:
Week 1-10 NAC 600mg ED

[mesophyte]

I am leaning towards dropping the anastrozole. My e2 is currently 26pg/ml pre-cycle and I'll only be using about 100mg of test per week. Shouldn't cause any major issues with aromatization, should it?

Any problems I should be aware of with using vet-grade HCG (Chorulon from Intervet)?

I see you guys talking a lot about "slin pins". Is this just a standard insulin syringe and "slin pin" is just slang or is it something different?

[Chicagotarsier]

just slang so they sound cool lol

Do a lab after a month on just your E2. That will answer your question without any question. On 100 a week normally you would be middle or less on the E2 range.

No clue on the HcG


I would like to add this:

Test below 300 does not activate the fat loss mechanism to a high degree. From tests you see no difference on 50-100-150 dose of test for fat burning or muscle gains. At 300 you see it start to kick in. At 600 it kicks in big time.

Using anavar at 100 a day has shown me :

...it can make you bloat and an AI can remove that bloat.
...it adds some strength but not a lot.
...I personally haven't noticed any fat burning excess from it beyond what I knew would happen with testosterone .
...killer pumps and nitrogen retention.

It is possible I have not reached the point where the fat burning kicks in (time on). t3@ 75mcg daily was far more impressive than Var so far. Var has been tested and not bunk or substituted.

[mesophyte]

Thanks for the reply!

I'll monitor my e2 for sure. You think I should wait a month into the cycle? It is only a 6 week cycle.

I was almost going to run a var-only cycle. I decided to add the testosterone just to compensate for the possible suppression of the hpta. The HCG I added because regardless of whether the oxandrolone will cause hpta suppression or not, the testosterone certainly will and I don't want to deal with testicular atrophy. That is how my cycle came together. So, while I know that a higher dose of test would give me bigger gains, I'm really hesitant to increase it above the minimum necessary to cover the potential hpta suppression from the var, also because I assume the higher the dose of test, the more difficult recovery of the hpta will be. At this mild dose of 100mg per week, I hope recovery will be pretty quick and easy. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

About your observations of var, did you use pharma-grade oxandrolone? Oxandrolone is a DHT derivative and therefore cannot aromatise. If your product was pharma grade, could the bloat have been from the testosterone you ran alongside the var? 100mg of pharma grade oxandrolone is a lot and should have given you more noticeable results based on the literature. In one study for example, even elderly men who did not train experienced improved body composition when given 20mg per week of oxandrolone for 12 weeks.

Var has been tested and not bunk or substituted.

I did not understant this part above, can you please explain?

[mesophyte]

I noticed I had not updated this thread. I gave up on 100mg per week of test and opted for 300mg.

100mg every monday, wednesday and thursday.

[mesophyte]

I am interested in re-evaluating my test dose and also the length of my cycle, looking for feedback.

UPDATED CYCLE
Week 1-6 test prop 100mg Mon, Wed, Fri (300mg per week)
Week 1-6 HCG 250iu twice weekly (500iu per week)**
Week 1-6 pharma grade oxandrolone 60mg ED (20mg every 8 hours)
Week 2-6 Anastrozole 0.25mg EOD (started from mid 2nd week because of mail delay)

[mesophyte]

Switching from test-p to test-e. Still looking for feedback about my testosterone dose and the length of the cycle. I'm thinking of making it 8 weeks.

I am interested in re-evaluating my test dose and also the length of my cycle, looking for feedback.

UPDATED CYCLE
Week 1-6 test prop 100mg Mon, Wed, Fri (300mg per week)
Week 1-6 HCG 250iu twice weekly (500iu per week)**
Week 1-6 pharma grade oxandrolone 60mg ED (20mg every 8 hours)
Week 2-6 Anastrozole 0.25mg EOD (started from mid 2nd week because of mail delay)

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Using anavar at 100 a day has shown me : ...it can make you bloat and an AI can remove that bloat. ...it adds some strength but not a lot. ...I personally haven't noticed any fat burning excess from it beyond what I knew would happen with testosterone. ...killer pumps and nitrogen retention. It is possible I have not reached the point where the fat burning kicks in (time on). t3@ 75mcg daily was far more impressive than Var so far. Var has been tested and not bunk or substituted.

Chicagotarsier,
How do you know what the Anavar is doing when you are taking 25mg test, 100mg NPP, 50mg tren , 100mg Anavar, and 50 mg aromasin ED?
This is your first cycle and you spout off information like you have years of experience.
You have been training since March. That's all of 5 months.
Maybe your bloat is coming from the fact that you are taking 1225mg of injectables plus 700mg of Anavar a week and you have 42% bodyfat.

I am not claiming to be an expert by any means.
I am on my first cycle.
TRT for about 1.5 years.
I just dislike when people make it seem like they know more than they do.