Cycling and Gyno

I asked this on another forum.

-2 weeks in on first cycle, superdmz 3.0.
-Been on nolva for multiple weeks to fight pubertal gyno. Seems to be working. Running it through the cycle as well.
-Decided to add in some prami for both it's GH releasing effects to help heal up injuries (it's worth a shot), and to fight my existing gyno from potential prolactin issues, not just estrogen.



Freaking out a bit. Just this morning (after prami yesterday and a bit right when I woke up), my nipples seemed to be more gynoish than ever before. I noticed the lumps behind them were slightly more defined and have signs of slight lactation. WTF is going on here superdmz 3.0 doesn't cause gyno directly as it doesn't aromatize, I'm on 20mg nolva a day, and just started my prami at .25ml twice a day. What caused this suddenly? I know that lactation is due to prolactin, so I'm gonna hit it hard with prami.




In all seriousness though, what do I do here? Abandon cycle? I'm just scared because I don't want my gyno to get even worse than it is. I know nips change on cycle, but the slight lactation has me freaking out. Do I just keep at the nolva/prami and hope for the best? I don't want to drop my estro levels due to joint pain :(

Should I add in something dht based to fight it as well?

You had better do a google search on superdmz 3.0 and gyno. I found several forums post from people who got gyno from it.

Over the years I have seen more negative side effects such as gyno from pro hormones than real steroids.

You should not be considering doing a cycle of anything while you are also trying to battle gyno be it from puberty or chemically induced.

^ Already did the search a while ago. Seemed like 99% of the posts were from rebound or poor planning on their part. I'm actually kind of curious as to wtf is actually in here. Most logs show it kicked in and gave pumps in a matter of days. Mine took a full two weeks to get any feeling out of it and I've just been ridiculously sweaty on it. Now estrogen and prolactin sides are popping up, which has me baffled.

On the plus side, I hit 1mg prami and blasted an OTC AI before bed. Woke up, no more lactation. Nips seemed puffy, but they have been that way for as long as I can remember. I also had a refeed yesterday and certain foods seem to make them even more puffy. I'll keep on the prami/ai/nolva to see where it gets me in the next couple days.

Do I continue to cycle or ditch it? Seems like the problem flared up, but is disappearing.

Believe me on this, I wish I just used real gear and pinned. Figured an oral would be a good start before even thinking about doing a full 12 week run.

Ditch it, do not continue cycling if you ask me. I have always heard the stuff is garbage and if you truly to believe it is causing your gyno then I would just stay away from it. I have never seen a PH do amazing things to muscle size and definition so if what you are saying is true then the risks outweigh the benefits of this dmz crap. It is going to be really hard to fight gyno while still on it.

I'm staying on. If I ditch it now, I"ll get rebound which could worsen it. This is heading in the right direction already. Upping nolva to 40mg, prami to 1mg, an OTC AI, and riding it out. We will see what happens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kgpl

I'm staying on. If I ditch it now, I"ll get rebound which could worsen it. This is heading in the right direction already. Upping nolva to 40mg, prami to 1mg, an OTC AI, and riding it out. We will see what happens.

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I hope that's 1mg of prami per week and not daily.

^ 1mg daily. Explain? This is what most suggest working up to, I just hit it hard from the start to save time and get rid of this problem. No sides other than strange sexual desires and the best sleep of my life.

You need to read a lot more of the threads here if you truly think rebound is your biggest concern. Good luck with your cycle and your worsening gyno. You were given advice and have ignored all of it, illogical.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kgpl

^ 1mg daily. Explain? This is what most suggest working up to, I just hit it hard from the start to save time and get rid of this problem. No sides other than strange sexual desires and the best sleep of my life.

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.125mg is the dose I use to treat patients with extrapyramidal symptoms and restless leg syndrome. If you properly manage your E2, dopamine agonists may not be indicated/required but blood work is the only way to know where your serum estrogen levels are at.

Don't just throw drugs in your body because you read someone told you. Use DA compounds respectfully and cautiously.

19 year old, pre-existing gyno, pro-hormone only cycle, OTC AI, ...
So much wrong with this cycle.
My advice would be to just stop taking everything.

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Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

19 year old, pre-existing gyno, pro-hormone only cycle, OTC AI, ...
So much wrong with this cycle.
My advice would be to just stop taking everything.

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Exactly. These young guys do not appreciate the risks. They are only looking at a cycle as a quick fix with no consideration of the health risks.

People instantly assume because of age that no research has been done. I've done my research and have both letro and aromasin on hand, I'm just using erase pro as it is more mild. I'm afraid of tanking estrogen levels right now due to joint pain. I did pre cycle bloods and already contacted a doctor to get them checked again. He can't get me in until later this week though so I'm doing what I can for now.

I've had gyno for as long as I can remember. It's not like I've cycled before and got it off that. I am not considering this a "quick fix" at all. I've put my time in in the gym and reached some incredible strength levels. Do I have more natural potential? Yes, it's not like I have a shit diet/junk training. In the end, this is my personal choice and I've done as much research as possible before going into it.

I find it kind of ironic that when I come here for help, all I get is shit for making my own personal choice.

Prami is frequently used at 1mg a day to it back excess prolactin levels. Completely different goal than working with rls...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kgpl

Prami is frequently used at 1mg a day to it back excess prolactin levels. Completely different goal than working with rls...

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Have you already used 1mg of prami...??

I did... And that wasnt fun...
I passed over 1 hour and a half close of the toilet seat to puke my life with horrible stomach pain. Sweating like crazy.
Wanted to.sleep so ****ing bad but had so much pain that I couldnt fall asleep.
Sweating so.much that I was thristy as ****... Thought I would lose consciousness due to the dehydratation. Getting up to get a glass of water was unbearable...
Waking up later that night to redo it again for another hour.
And the morning after still doing it for another half hour to finally puke.
Feeling lethargic for the whole day.

At low dose prami is sideless for me.
But 1mg isnt low dose.

Prami is no joke... Thats a powerfull product.
Youd better ramp up slowly...
Very slowly...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kgpl

People instantly assume because of age that no research has been done. I've done my research and have both letro and aromasin on hand, I'm just using erase pro as it is more mild. I'm afraid of tanking estrogen levels right now due to joint pain. I did pre cycle bloods and already contacted a doctor to get them checked again. He can't get me in until later this week though so I'm doing what I can for now.

I've had gyno for as long as I can remember. It's not like I've cycled before and got it off that. I am not considering this a "quick fix" at all. I've put my time in in the gym and reached some incredible strength levels. Do I have more natural potential? Yes, it's not like I have a shit diet/junk training. In the end, this is my personal choice and I've done as much research as possible before going into it.

I find it kind of ironic that when I come here for help, all I get is shit for making my own personal choice.

Prami is frequently used at 1mg a day to it back excess prolactin levels. Completely different goal than working with rls...

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It is assumed that you come here seeking advice from experienced users more familiar with the substances you are planning to self-administer. You asked the question of us, we didn't ask you for advice.

Advice is what you're getting. It makes no difference to me if you put yourself in a hospital or not. It's your life. Live it anyway you want, but if you're hoping to have your ego stroked and told how smart you are and how grateful we are to have you enlighten the more experienced members, get past it because it's not going to happen. We advise you on what we know from experience is safe and appropriate use. If you think you are wiser and better off not listening, all the power to you. Good luck with your cycle. I have better things to do than try to convince you otherwise.

If something goes wrong with your cycle, it won't be me helping you out. You just burned that bridge with your arrogance and ignorance.

Hopefully other members will guide you, if not, well figure it out yourself. Like many kids, you've got ALL the answers from your short time on this earth. Maybe some of the other kids with limited experience can come stroke your ego. LMAO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by qscgugcsq

Have you already used 1mg of prami...??

I did... And that wasnt fun...
I passed over 1 hour and a half close of the toilet seat to puke my life with horrible stomach pain. Sweating like crazy.
Wanted to.sleep so ****ing bad but had so much pain that I couldnt fall asleep.
Sweating so.much that I was thristy as ****... Thought I would lose consciousness due to the dehydratation. Getting up to get a glass of water was unbearable...
Waking up later that night to redo it again for another hour.
And the morning after still doing it for another half hour to finally puke.
Feeling lethargic for the whole day.

At low dose prami is sideless for me.
But 1mg isnt low dose.

Prami is no joke... Thats a powerfull product.
Youd better ramp up slowly...
Very slowly...

---

He's got it all figured out. No need for our guidance. He'd rather argue than discuss. I'm sure Google and You Tube gave him the scholarly training he needed to be an expert because we know the only posts on Google and You Tube come from the world's greatest minds. Lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by qscgugcsq

Have you already used 1mg of prami...??

I did... And that wasnt fun...
I passed over 1 hour and a half close of the toilet seat to puke my life with horrible stomach pain. Sweating like crazy.
Wanted to.sleep so ****ing bad but had so much pain that I couldnt fall asleep.
Sweating so.much that I was thristy as ****... Thought I would lose consciousness due to the dehydratation. Getting up to get a glass of water was unbearable...
Waking up later that night to redo it again for another hour.
And the morning after still doing it for another half hour to finally puke.
Feeling lethargic for the whole day.

At low dose prami is sideless for me.
But 1mg isnt low dose.

Prami is no joke... Thats a powerfull product.
Youd better ramp up slowly...
Very slowly...

---

Started at .25mg, then upped it to 1mg out of desparation. I'll admit it's not a good idea to jump like this, but I consider myself lucky. No harsh sides, just made me really sleepy and have kind of weird sexual thoughts around the clock.



Muscleink- I did not once mention on having my ego stroked or anything. I came here for the very reason that you guys are more knowledgeable than me. It's perfectly normal to assume most guys my age don't do research, but this isn't the case with me, and that is all I said. I have made the personal choice of cycling. It wasn't an overnight thing or spur of the moment....

I'm not arguing in any way, just trying to get the point across that I have as much knowledge as someone who has no experience can have. I've done the research, but have no first hand use with them obviously.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kgpl

Started at .25mg, then upped it to 1mg out of desparation. I'll admit it's not a good idea to jump like this, but I consider myself lucky. No harsh sides, just made me really sleepy and have kind of weird sexual thoughts around the clock.

Muscleink- I did not once mention on having my ego stroked or anything. I came here for the very reason that you guys are more knowledgeable than me. It's perfectly normal to assume most guys my age don't do research, but this isn't the case with me, and that is all I said. I have made the personal choice of cycling. It wasn't an overnight thing or spur of the moment....

I'm not arguing in any way, just trying to get the point across that I have as much knowledge as someone who has no experience can have. I've done the research, but have no first hand use with them obviously.

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Upping it out of desperation is not doing your research. It takes time for hormones to respond to dose adjustments. I'd recommend cutting that dose in half and giving it time to work. I'd rather it take time and you don't harm yourself than rush the process and you hurt yourself. Often times there a re dangerous side effects building that we don't see. We're trying to keep you safe.

I'll back it down then. I panicked and started to look up prami doses to prolactin related gyno and a lot of the comments I saw were 1mg to eliminate it. I jumped to that in desperation to eliminate the problem. I'm probably lucky that I am quite resistant to substances (both prescription and otc) as no immediate sides popped up and on top of that, the problem is already decreasing.

.5mg for how long? Should I just do it for another week or so than continue to cut the dose gradually and cruise on it for a bit?

I believe than .5 is plenty.
No need to go higher.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by qscgugcsq

I believe than .5 is plenty.
No need to go higher.

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Agreed. I'd prefer you dose that EOD but prami has a relatively short life. In two weeks you may want to run BW. Keep managing the E2 aggressively.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kgpl

I asked this on another forum.

-2 weeks in on first cycle, superdmz 3.0.
-Been on nolva for multiple weeks to fight pubertal gyno. Seems to be working. Running it through the cycle as well.
-Decided to add in some prami for both it's GH releasing effects to help heal up injuries (it's worth a shot), and to fight my existing gyno from potential prolactin issues, not just estrogen.



Freaking out a bit. Just this morning (after prami yesterday and a bit right when I woke up), my nipples seemed to be more gynoish than ever before. I noticed the lumps behind them were slightly more defined and have signs of slight lactation. WTF is going on here superdmz 3.0 doesn't cause gyno directly as it doesn't aromatize, I'm on 20mg nolva a day, and just started my prami at .25ml twice a day. What caused this suddenly? I know that lactation is due to prolactin, so I'm gonna hit it hard with prami.




In all seriousness though, what do I do here? Abandon cycle? I'm just scared because I don't want my gyno to get even worse than it is. I know nips change on cycle, but the slight lactation has me freaking out. Do I just keep at the nolva/prami and hope for the best? I don't want to drop my estro levels due to joint pain :(

Should I add in something dht based to fight it as well?

---

The only way to know for sure what is going on is some blood work.
The NOLVA and PRAMI should have you covered.

I have letro ready for any sudden outbreaks, but I'll let the erase do it's job now. It's working for now and I'd rather not take letro... Do not want those sides.

Issue seems under control, no more lactation or sensitivity. Obviously, this doesn't change the fact that the lumps are still there like they always have been. The prami is actually doing great things for me in regards to recovery and joints.


Now that it's under control, it's time to "fight" back at it and eliminate it.

1. I've been on nolva for roughly 4-5 weeks now, even before cycle. During the first two weeks, it seemed to reduce it slightly, but now it's not doing too much. Not all hope is lost though, since it did have an effect in the beginning.

2. Cruise on a low dose of prami for a bit to keep prolactin in check.

3. Switch to ralox? Ralox seems to have the best effect at targeting the tissue directly.

4. Keep estrogen levels low.

What are your thoughts? Obviously, there's a good chance nothing will touch it since it's been there for so long, but hey, it's all worth a shot.

Ralox and Nolva are both effective at treating gyno, but Ralox is slightly better according to the data from the published studies. Having said that I would switch to Ralox if the Nolva stops producing results in the next few weeks. If you have plenty of Nolva it wouldn't be a bad idea to give it a little more time either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RangerDanger830

Ralox and Nolva are both effective at treating gyno, but Ralox is slightly better according to the data from the published studies. Having said that I would switch to Ralox if the Nolva stops producing results in the next few weeks. If you have plenty of Nolva it wouldn't be a bad idea to give it a little more time either.

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Appreciate it. I'll keep at it, left nipple is better than ever now, right seems unchanged. I have about 1.5g nolva left, which should be more than enough.

Going to hit a low dose of letro as well. VERY low.