Major Injection Jitters, days into cycle

**mesophyte** · 07-07-2014, 09:16 AM

Today is the third day I need to pin. So far I hit delt and glute.

I just tried to do a second delt shot (this time on the other arm) and I couldn't do it. The needled felt like it wasn't going in. I pulled out and decided to switch in a new one. Tried a little to the side, still wouldn't go in so I checked the position and tried again. It started going in, but was feeling odd and really slow, different from when I did the first time. So I pulled it out and along came a stream of blood.

Gave up on the delt, switched needles again and tried what I thought was the ventroglute. Wouldn't go in. Even though all my weight was on the other leg, I felt resistance and felt like I was still tensing that muscle. Pulled out and tried again. Still couldn't do it, probably because I did not feel confident that it was really the ventroglute.

At this point I think I've completely psyched myself out. I'm having a mild anxiety attack and can't even fathom the idea of pinning.

What is wrong with me? Anyone else been through this, if so, how did you get over it and continue?

**zempey** · 07-07-2014, 09:35 AM

I had a brief episode like that when pinning my quad, now I shoot only in my glutes, never have any pain or swelling and rotate side to side. What gauge are you using? Maybe try and go in faster with a bit more of a jab instead of slow constant pressure.

**mesophyte** · 07-07-2014, 09:42 AM

I might try doing the glute but not right now. I might need to take something to calm down, I can't inject in my current state (or do anything else for that matter).

I wish I could just do this subq with a slinpin. I'm so OK with subq. But I don't know if 0,5cc of test prop would be ok subq or if it would be an abcess waiting to happen...

**MuscleInk** · 07-07-2014, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by mesophyte

I might try doing the glute but not right now. I might need to take something to calm down, I can't inject in my current state (or do anything else for that matter).

I wish I could just do this subq with a slinpin. I'm so OK with subq. But I don't know if 0,5cc of test prop would be ok subq or if it would be an abcess waiting to happen...

It's all in your head. Commit to the injection. There are much bigger things in life to worry about or fear than a little needle.

**diesel101** · 07-07-2014, 10:19 AM

Calm down and relax MI is right its all in your head just relax and it will go smooth.

**mesophyte** · 07-07-2014, 10:21 AM

I'm so pissed off. My head is just not letting me do this anymore and I don't know why, this would be my third IM injection, I managed to do the other two...

I tried to just suck it up and do it now. Thought of triying my other glute but then I realized I wouldn't be able to reach it properly and so I went for the delt again. Same thing. Couldn't do it, the needle wouldn't go in and the muscle felt tense. It probably is tense since my anxiety has increased even more.

That's it for me. I can't do IM anymore and I don't know why this is happening when I managed to do it just fine the first two times. I don't know how I'm going to continue my cycle.

**rplante7** · 07-07-2014, 10:21 AM

When I first started injecting I was extremely nervous and awkward. After a couple of times doing glutes that passed. Injecting glutes is fairly simple. Checkout Utube if you are uncertain

**mesophyte** · 07-07-2014, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by rplante7

When I first started injecting I was extremely nervous and awkward. After a couple of times doing glutes that passed. Injecting glutes is fairly simple. Checkout Utube if you are uncertain

Thanks... I've done that and I know how to do glutes, I hit a glute on Friday. It isn't that I don't know how, it is that I've psyched myself out, completely. It's in my head and I don't know how to undo this. I'm completely blocked from pinning, at least IM. A physiotherapist friend of mine had offered to do these for me as he is used to doing them on himself but I can't even contemplate having someone else do it either. I am just blocked from IM. Either my head straightens itself out or my cycle is finished before it even really gets going.

My last subq was HCG on Saturday so I don't know if I'm blocked from Subq also or not. I think I might be fine for sub q as the needle is so short and getting it in is so quick. Could I maybe continue my cycle with test prop sub q? 100mg / 0,5cc on Monday/Wednesday/Friday? Most of the information I found online about this was just people speculating about it.

I'm so upset about this, I've spent so much money to get quality gear (my cycle includes pharma grade oxan) and I feel literally incapable of continuing.

**600@50** · 07-07-2014, 10:38 AM

As was already mentioned just watch some YouTube videos to try to get comfortable again. Some may disagree but try a quad pin. You can easily see what you're doing and not be in any awkward position. Quads are one of my favorites now.

**KidUK** · 07-07-2014, 10:47 AM

Man up.

**kelkel** · 07-07-2014, 10:50 AM

Sounds like your pinning to slow to me as well. Hit it a little harder so the pin goes in quick and it's over before you know it. If you go slow and watch every millimeter it'll fvck with you.

**austinite** · 07-07-2014, 11:47 AM

Recipe for post injection discomfort there. Do as suggested above.

**mesophyte** · 07-07-2014, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Sounds like your pinning to slow to me as well. Hit it a little harder so the pin goes in quick and it's over before you know it. If you go slow and watch every millimeter it'll fvck with you.

I think I'm totally fvcked already. Really guys, I'm stuck. Its psychological, It isn't technique, its in my head. I've never felt like this before about anything and I've been through some tough situations. I've never had any issues with needles. I have no clue how this happened but I really feel unable to do it.

I don't want to give up. I can try again later on today once my anxiety subsides. I'm just worried that this just won't work anymore. I wasted 0,5cc / 100mg of test today and if when I try again later the same things happens, it will be another 0,5cc / 100g down the toilet (literally).

What do you guys think of sub-q with test prop at 0,5cc at a time? (200mg/ml concentration)

**austinite** · 07-07-2014, 11:56 AM

You're going to faint.

**MuscleInk** · 07-07-2014, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by mesophyte

Thanks... I've done that and I know how to do glutes, I hit a glute on Friday. It isn't that I don't know how, it is that I've psyched myself out, completely. It's in my head and I don't know how to undo this. I'm completely blocked from pinning, at least IM. A physiotherapist friend of mine had offered to do these for me as he is used to doing them on himself but I can't even contemplate having someone else do it either. I am just blocked from IM. Either my head straightens itself out or my cycle is finished before it even really gets going.

My last subq was HCG on Saturday so I don't know if I'm blocked from Subq also or not. I think I might be fine for sub q as the needle is so short and getting it in is so quick. Could I maybe continue my cycle with test prop sub q? 100mg / 0,5cc on Monday/Wednesday/Friday? Most of the information I found online about this was just people speculating about it.

I'm so upset about this, I've spent so much money to get quality gear (my cycle includes pharma grade oxan) and I feel literally incapable of continuing.

Mind over matter. Sure, easy for us to say right? Danger is real, fear is a choice. There is very little if any danger to an injection. Infections aside, and if you are using sterile techniques, infections should be very rare, the fear is all in your head.

You just have to decide how bad you really want this. There is very little danger with a needle when used correctly - heck, even when used improperly, the dangers are extremely low. The fear you are experiencing is all self-induced.

**MuscleInk** · 07-07-2014, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by mesophyte

I think I'm totally fvcked already. Really guys, I'm stuck. Its psychological, It isn't technique, its in my head. I've never felt like this before about anything and I've been through some tough situations. I've never had any issues with needles. I have no clue how this happened but I really feel unable to do it.

I don't want to give up. I can try again later on today once my anxiety subsides. I'm just worried that this just won't work anymore. I wasted 0,5cc / 100mg of test today and if when I try again later the same things happens, it will be another 0,5cc / 100g down the toilet (literally).

What do you guys think of sub-q with test prop at 0,5cc at a time? (200mg/ml concentration)

.5cc at 200mg would be 100mg. More than I'd push with SQ and absorption will be slower and you may experience more bruising or PIP with the oil SQ. If you're injecting 100mg 3x a week, that's more than I'd push SQ.

**mesophyte** · 07-07-2014, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

You're going to faint.

What do you mean? If I try to inject IM again today in my currect state of mind, yes I can see that happening. Or are you referring to subq?

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Mind over matter. Sure, easy for us to say right? Danger is real, fear is a choice. There is very little if any danger to an injection. Infections aside, and if you are using sterile techniques, infections should be very rare, the fear is all in your head.
You just have to decide how bad you really want this. There is very little danger with a needle when used correctly - heck, even when used improperly, the dangers are extremely low. The fear you are experiencing is all self-induced.

Thanks MuscleInk. I really don't know what triggered this today, I don't feel like myself.

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

.5cc at 200mg would be 100mg. More than I'd push with SQ and absorption will be slower and you may experience more bruising or PIP with the oil SQ. If you're injecting 100mg 3x a week, that's more than I'd push SQ.

What if I were to do roughly 0.23cc (44mg) every day?

**zempey** · 07-07-2014, 01:32 PM

Have a couple shots of bourbon to calm down and just hit it in the same glute you did it in successfully last time. Maybe this just isn't for you, if you can't handle the pins, might need to move on and stay natural. There is a lot of hormone head games that come with this type of supplement, if you can't get past this, you might not be cut out for it. Nothing wrong with that, it's not worth screwing with your head, take a break and try again next year.

**numbere** · 07-07-2014, 01:43 PM

Injecting any amount SQ won't fix your problem.

Your pain is mostly being caused by the concentration of test and solvents. Pain within 24 hours is usually caused by solvents (BA). Pain after this time is usually caused by crystallization and hydrolization. Hypothetically speaking lets say 100mg of test p dissolved in 1ml of oil will diffuse throughout the body 48 hours. If that concentration is increased to 200mg of test in 1ml of oil 48 hours later all the oil will be diffused but 50mg of test will remain. This remaining test is then crystallizing and hydrolyzing into propanoic acid in a small area, causing intense pain and inflammation. Your pain would be less severe if you were injection 100mg/ml than if you were injecting 200mg/ml. Like I said in your last thread I see three options for you either you suffer through the pain, stop and go into PCT, or cut you injections 50/50 with sterile filtered oil.

**austinite** · 07-07-2014, 01:58 PM

Pain, (not that I believe in Pip) is mostly due to poor injection technique.

**austinite** · 07-07-2014, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by mesophyte

What do you mean? If I try to inject IM again today in my currect state of mind, yes I can see that happening. Or are you referring to subq?

If you're that nervous, you'll likely experience vasovagal syncope.

**numbere** · 07-07-2014, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

Pain, (not that I believe in Pip) is mostly due to poor injection technique.

I agree technique is the number one cause of pain. I was giving OP the benefit of the doubt that he was injecting properly. I believe all this would have been avoided had OP taken your advise last week and used test e or c instead of 200mg/ml test p.

**Mp859** · 07-07-2014, 02:35 PM

Sounds like you are in the wrong sport.

**MuscleInk** · 07-07-2014, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

If you're that nervous, you'll likely experience vasovagal syncope.

Fun times that vasovagal syncope. I've caught my fair share of patients passing out from needles.

**swolehead** · 07-07-2014, 02:57 PM

you could have someone els do it for you

**mesophyte** · 07-07-2014, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

If you're that nervous, you'll likely experience vasovagal syncope.

Yes, I can see that happening. This is why I want to do subq. If I apply ED 0.23cc (44mg) subq, would that be an acceptable work-around? I don't want to give up on my cycle.

Originally Posted by numbere

Injecting any amount SQ won't fix your problem.
Your pain is mostly being caused by the concentration of test and solvents. Pain within 24 hours is usually caused by solvents (BA). Pain after this time is usually caused by crystallization and hydrolization. Hypothetically speaking lets say 100mg of test p dissolved in 1ml of oil will diffuse throughout the body 48 hours. If that concentration is increased to 200mg of test in 1ml of oil 48 hours later all the oil will be diffused but 50mg of test will remain. This remaining test is then crystallizing and hydrolyzing into propanoic acid in a small area, causing intense pain and inflammation. Your pain would be less severe if you were injection 100mg/ml than if you were injecting 200mg/ml. Like I said in your last thread I see three options for you either you suffer through the pain, stop and go into PCT, or cut you injections 50/50 with sterile filtered oil.

The pain in my arm was not so bad, I was worried because it was red and warm (resolved now). In my glute it is more painful but I was expecting that as I fudged the injection. Anyway, that is a different issue. I'm not consciously afraid of the pip, I can deal with mild discomfort as long as I know it is nothing to worry about. Today for some reason I have a mental block, completely unable to go through with the injection. I wasn't fearful of the injection or dreading the moment or anything. I started out as normal, prepared my space got all the material ready was even feeling less nervous (initially) than I did the first day but then it didn't happen. (details in the original post above). And then an anxiety attack was triggered and the rest I already wrote above.

This is why I want to do subq. Not because I think it will be less painful. Simply because it is an injection I thnk I can actually go through with quite easily, even daily, without triggering another episode.

**zempey** · 07-07-2014, 03:51 PM

Sounds like your gear might not be the highest quality, I get zero pain at any time with the gear I use. I had some stuff prior to this that burned going in and felt like I was hit with a bat at the injection site for up to 5 days. I gave it back and went with a different company, I have pinned 450mg of test with 100mg tren e for a total of 2.5ml at one time with no sensation at all during or after. Might be worth looking into a different company, some oils seem to react differently to different people.

**mesophyte** · 07-07-2014, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by zempey

Sounds like your gear might not be the highest quality, I get zero pain at any time with the gear I use. I had some stuff prior to this that burned going in and felt like I was hit with a bat at the injection site for up to 5 days. I gave it back and went with a different company, I have pinned 450mg of test with 100mg tren e for a total of 2.5ml at one time with no sensation at all during or after. Might be worth looking into a different company, some oils seem to react differently to different people.

It's the best quality gear I can get in my country. Pharma grade, Landerlan. Everything else is UGL gear with frequent counterfeit and tampering. Landerlan is known down here for being painful. But it is human pharma grade and can be trusted. The issue though isn't the pip. I'm not sure why it came up here.

I'm going to take an anxiolitic and then try again. Maybe this is hormonal and once I get on my AI it will sort out and I'll manage fine the rest of the injections. I've not been feeling myself since the weekend.

From what I've read and what I can infer, subq with this gear would leave me with giant welps that would last a week or longer and I'd run out of reasonable sites pinning ED. I can tell from my butt which is not happy right now because the last injection went partially subq by mistake. So I'm disregarding that option. I need to find a way to continue IM.

**kronik420** · 07-07-2014, 04:25 PM

for starters i would switch the test prop to test e/c

less pinning, less pip.

and lay down on your bed when you pin..

**mesophyte** · 07-07-2014, 06:35 PM

I DID IT!

...and it was nothing.

I stuck the needle in my glute (quickly as per your suggestions) noticed it was at a weird angle so I pulled it out and went in again slightly to the side. Aspirated with some difficulty, (I didn't force it until bubbles appeared so I hope it was fine) and injected. It was no big deal, I don't know what was wrong with my mind today. A friend gave me an anxiolitic earlier because the anxiety lasted the entire day so that helped.

Could this have been hormonal? I've never felt this level of anxiety before especially for so many hours. For something so silly too.

**austinite** · 07-07-2014, 06:36 PM

yay.

**kelkel** · 07-07-2014, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by mesophyte

I DID IT!

...and it was nothing.

I stuck the needle in my glute (quickly as per your suggestions) noticed it was at a weird angle so I pulled it out and went in again slightly to the side..

Leave it be and just inject next time. Angles don't have to be perfect.
Glad you conquered your fear.

**MuscleInk** · 07-07-2014, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Leave it be and just inject next time. Angles don't have to be perfect.
Glad you conquered your fear.

Wait, are we still talking needles????

**mesophyte** · 07-16-2014, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

If you're that nervous, you'll likely experience vasovagal syncope.

...and it came close to happening today.

Everything has been fine for the last injections but today I aspirated blood so I removed the needle and tried another spot, aspirating blood again (probably from the same nicked vein). I got nervous, flushed the test and decided to do it later. Well, a couple of hours later I went for it again, aspirated, no blood, but I shook a bit as I injected and immediately started imagining that in doing so I may have hit a vein and may be injecting into my bloodstream, imagining myself having a heart attack. My heartrate skyrocketted and after I finally finished and removed the needle, I felt the telltale signs that I was about to pass out. I managed to calm down and prevent it from happening but it came too close for comfort today.

I am convinced this is hormonal anxiety but whatever the cause, I can't risk fainting on my bathroom floor. I've decided to switch to a longer ester for less frequent pinning. Plus, I am no longer comfortable injecting anywhere other than my glutes and doing so EOD switching between only 2 injections sites is not a good idea from what I've read.

Originally Posted by kronik420

for starters i would switch the test prop to test e/c

less pinning, less pip.

and lay down on your bed when you pin..

I'm buying test e. I just don't know how soon I'll receive it. I want to do some research into it too to see if I can get away with once per week pinning. I know austinite recommends 250mg 2x per week of test e for a beginner cycle.

How do you do glutes lying down? I look in the mirror in the bathroom to do it.
I think pinning in bed would be a good way to avoid passing out, or at least pass out on a decent surface.

**600@50** · 07-16-2014, 06:52 PM

Just keep doing what you're doing. Look in the mirror, pin yourself in the a$$ and you'll be fine. It's simple dude.

**mesophyte** · 07-16-2014, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by 600@50

Just keep doing what you're doing. Look in the mirror, pin yourself in the a$$ and you'll be fine. It's simple dude.

I know. This is so silly. While it is my first cycle, I am already roughly two weeks in and I've pinned test 7 times. The first time that this happened (when I posted this thread) was for the third pin and then it happened again today for the 7th. All the other times were a-OK, simple and done with no stress.

Anyways, with test e there will be less pinning.