The Science of Stacking Steroids

[jsam]

I don't want to hijack this thread.

It was a year or so after. If you would like to give some advice I'm all for it.

But could you do it here?

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...ce-please.html

[SEOINAGE]

I kind of would hope that this could be expanded upon more.

For instance what if you had a stack that was heavily on the test based compounds. Mid dose TEST, High Eq, low Dbol . I imagine dialing in an AI would be the biggest challenge, but what other negatives could occur? Then would adding low dose nandrolone make it a much better stack? Let's say it was used as a performance enhancing bulk for say strongman competition.

Or would you be better off running 1 from each? I'm not sure on a bulk if a dht based would be needed. I've doubled up on 19nors already without having much issue, but found I respond really well from winstrol along side a 19 nor, but yet to touch anything from the test category other than test.

what about expanding on things a bit further. for instance I decided I don't exactly like tren because it can lower T3. Including T3 in your stack with tren might be the way to go if using it in a cutting cycle which seems what most do with tren. After all tren is used for maintaining weight in cattle on the way to slaughter, not exactly a fat loss scenario.

[jimmyinkedup]

I kind of would hope that this could be expanded upon more.

For instance what if you had a stack that was heavily on the test based compounds. Mid dose TEST, High Eq, low Dbol . I imagine dialing in an AI would be the biggest challenge, but what other negatives could occur? Then would adding low dose nandrolone make it a much better stack? Let's say it was used as a performance enhancing bulk for say strongman competition.

Or would you be better off running 1 from each? I'm not sure on a bulk if a dht based would be needed. I've doubled up on 19nors already without having much issue, but found I respond really well from winstrol along side a 19 nor, but yet to touch anything from the test category other than test.

what about expanding on things a bit further. for instance I decided I don't exactly like tren because it can lower T3. Including T3 in your stack with tren might be the way to go if using it in a cutting cycle which seems what most do with tren. After all tren is used for maintaining weight in cattle on the way to slaughter, not exactly a fat loss scenario.

I could def see it going much much further, I cut it back dramatically and it was long as it is. This is more of an intro to stacking, the basic premise for the stack and some guidelines as to how you may wish to approach your first couple. I could def see a part 2 for more advanced stacking techniques and had to hold myself back from getting into them as that was not the purpose for this particular write up. I am not opposed to carrying it on further and doing a sequel write up if people feel they would like to go more in depth and into some more advanced techniques.

[SEOINAGE]

Ya understandable. We tend to keep the basics of things very basic since there are so many members new to this thing. It seems rare to really get into the advanced end of things since you have newcomers that will want to run it straight off.

[jimmyinkedup]

Ya understandable. We tend to keep the basics of things very basic since there are so many members new to this thing. It seems rare to really get into the advanced end of things since you have newcomers that will want to run it straight off.

Exactly. I could totally see a first cycle of low test, high tren , low dose deca , winstrol and t3 being shared and the stacking w/u referenced as justification no matter how much it was emphasized as advanced protocols.
Ive really strived lately to make my writing very basic and easily understood by all, no need to confuse with technical info etc when a basic understanding will go much further in allowing new steroid users to grasp the foundation principles and premise of proper use, stacking etc. In the past I have written things that were very technical and chock full of technical refs and I very much enjoy that but the people that type of write up helps vs the number of people a write up like this helps is no contest. These principles apply to all, where more advanced or technical ones may only apply or be of interest to a smaller % of people, and that's not really the goal with this type of article.

[Buster Brown]

I could def see it going much much further, I cut it back dramatically and it was long as it is. This is more of an intro to stacking, the basic premise for the stack and some guidelines as to how you may wish to approach your first couple. I could def see a part 2 for more advanced stacking techniques and had to hold myself back from getting into them as that was not the purpose for this particular write up. I am not opposed to carrying it on further and doing a sequel write up if people feel they would like to go more in depth and into some more advanced techniques.

That would be a great read at some point jimmy. You do a great job writing and would love to hear what you have to say about advanced cycling techniques. I personally just ran a cutter including tes/tren a/ Winnie/ hgh and t4 and was very happy with not only the results but how I was able to manage the sides which made the cycle all that much more enjoyable.

[Juced_porkchop]

WOW, This is an amazing write up Jimmy!!
I will refer noob PM`s here and some posters so they can get a grip on their knowledge.
Thank you for the contribution to the community.

[jimmyinkedup]

That would be a great read at some point jimmy. You do a great job writing and would love to hear what you have to say about advanced cycling techniques. I personally just ran a cutter including tes/tren a/ Winnie/ hgh and t4 and was very happy with not only the results but how I was able to manage the sides which made the cycle all that much more enjoyable.

WOW, This is an amazing write up Jimmy!!
I will refer noob PM`s here and some posters so they can get a grip on their knowledge.
Thank you for the contribution to the community.

Thanks for the kind words guys. Much Appreciated!
BB after I finish the article Im working on now as far at steroid history I think I will look into a part 2 with some more advanced stuff and hopefully we can get a lot of input regarding what the experienced guys use themselves and what works for them etc.

[2iron]

LH and FSH levels are low but in range indicating HPTA is running. I believe thats what you go by isn't it?

I think that means your pituitary is not working. If you un have low t I believe there are 2 reasons. Your boys dont work or your pituitary does not. If your testosterone numbers are below normal your pituitary should be cranked up trying to produce more t.

[Jaydenn]

Great Read !

[Audiofreak37]

Great Thread! Very clear and informative. Thanks!

[tarmyg]

Great read Jimmy and now also a STICKY! ​:-)

[Trainandgetlean]

Hi guys
First post, I have been training on and off for years, I have been off training for a few years now, but now back into it for the last 8 weeks. I have cycled steroids in the past, I'm 33 169cm, and at 27%BF, I'm think of using either tren hex or tren ace, sus, T3 and clen , I want to get to 13-15% BF. Would appreciate any thoughts and advice

[_-KL-_]

Looks like I have a good idea of what cycle #2 will look like.
Thanks for all the great information sir!

[skribble83]

This helped a lot thanks

[tysonfan1]

Wow, man. U totally schooled me there. That's a useful chunk'o'information u just dropped there. I really appreciate that. Thanx man. Keep it comin!

[gainz4dayz17]

Very informative. Thank you, Jimmy.

[seether]

Great post ! I am about to start my second ever cycle , going to be running sust 250 and dianabol for a kick start , was thinking of jumping into tren right away but this post has me reconsidering , I think I'll stick with the sust and dianabol

[EquilibriumZ]

Awesome post. One question: so I understand DHT based ones affect baldness for people with male baldness pattern.
What about testosterone itself (lets say at dose of 500mg not trt) ?

[jimmyinkedup]

Awesome post. One question: so I understand DHT based ones affect baldness for people with male baldness pattern.
What about testosterone itself (lets say at dose of 500mg not trt) ?

Test itself is 5 alpha reduced to dht via the 5-alpha reductase enzyme in the body. An increase in test will illicit an increase in dht. Is this as potent as a dht based steroid when it comes to MPB-no. Is it still relevant- If you are prone to MPB yes it can be and precautions should be taken.

[NACH3]

Thx for sharing your wealth of knowledge w/us all! It Doesn't get any better then this: 1. Easy read, 2. Easy to comprehend, so newbies can understand (including ones with very little to no knowledge will get this)!

[Bombas-tdot]

thank you for the info! great read

[jimmyinkedup]

Thanks for the kind words....hope it helps some people out....

[naughtynatty]

Awesome

[joel22484]

Another great sticky! So much good information in here, thank you for taking the time to share it.

[edmondle]

It's like an art

[songdog]

Yeah it really is as much an explanation as to why test only should be your first cycle as it is about stacking.

Good job Jimmy!

[anabolicsqa]

One thing is for sure, you can make 2+2=5, you can reduce sides, and you can increase gains. Take the time to educate yourself on the 3 steroid bases, the steroids that fall within each, and their individual effects.

jimmy - glad I read this info about the 3 bases, so now I know the right gear to stack. I'm planning on a 6-week cutting phase. For me, I have chosen Testosterone Propionate , Trenbolone Acetate (19-nor), and Winstrol (DHT). Without knowing that Trenbolone and Deca are both 19-nor types, I might hae made the mistake of stacking Deca with Trenbolone.

Trenbolone and Winstrol are known to be harsh, but effective for cutting, so I'm already decided on this cutting stack. I've got Anastrozole (Arimidex ) as my anti-estrogen, but is it necessary to also include Letrozole as an anti-progestin and anti-estrogen? (Letrozole is super pricey for me. It costs me about double or triple the price of gear like Testosterone Propionate .)

Would it be a good idea to post about this cutting-cycle in a separate thread?

[jimmyinkedup]

jimmy - glad I read this info about the 3 bases, so now I know the right gear to stack. I'm planning on a 6-week cutting phase. For me, I have chosen Testosterone Propionate , Trenbolone Acetate (19-nor), and Winstrol (DHT). Without knowing that Trenbolone and Deca are both 19-nor types, I might hae made the mistake of stacking Deca with Trenbolone.

Trenbolone and Winstrol are known to be harsh, but effective for cutting, so I'm already decided on this cutting stack. I've got Anastrozole (Arimidex ) as my anti-estrogen, but is it necessary to also include Letrozole as an anti-progestin and anti-estrogen? (Letrozole is super pricey for me. It costs me about double or triple the price of gear like Testosterone Propionate .)

Would it be a good idea to post about this cutting-cycle in a separate thread?

No you dont need to include letro with adex. That would for sure crash your e2 levels. I would personally use adex to manage my e2 and have prami on hand in case you should incur prolatin type sides.
The stack you outlined is a perfect example of the synergy a stack can afford you. You see winstrol itself has anti progestenic properties (it occupies but does not activate the progesterone receptor) making it a nice compliment to 19 nors in that regard.
For more cycle feedback I would post your cycle in the steroid q&a section for feedback on it. I am merely commenting on it with regards to this thread and how it is an example of the synergy a stack can afford you.

[anabolicsqa]

I see what you're saying about staying on-topic. I think this post stays on the subject of DHT-based steroids , and the stuff about DHT-based steroids use in cutting is farily general information.

(Um, my source "forgot" to include the oral Stanozolol (Winstrol ) in my shipment. The source was a U.S. underground lab.)

So I did some reading on the DHT-based profiles and decided to order "name brand" Proviron from the U.K. My decision to go with Proviron over other DHTs (Masteron , Primobolan , Anavar , Stanozolol) was based on active life (in hours/days), the androgenic /anabolic ratio, side-effects, and most importantly, the amount of androgenic, DHT activity you get for the cost.

Anyway, with no Winstrol/Stanozolol, I went shopping for brand-name Winstrol this time, but started having second thoughts on Winstrol. As I read the DHT-based steroid profiles, I found steroids with a higher Androgenic/Anabolic ratio than "Stanozolol(Winstrol). For example, Winstrol's Androgenic/Anabolic Ratio is 30:320, and Proviron's is 30-40:100-150, so I guesstimated that Proviron's DHT-based, androgenic effects probably sell at a lower price than a brand-name DHT-based alternative, like Winstrol, Masteron, or Primobolan.

Then as I went over the DHT-based steroids' profiles, I finally realized the primary use for DHT-based steroids in a stack: for cutting! The DHT binds strongly to the ARs in fat cells resulting in a lipolytic effect. This seems on-topic with the thread. It might be useful to others who don't get DHT-based steroids like Masteron or Primobolan. Just like I hadn't.

I've been meaning to post a new thread, on "The Science of Cutting", but I've got too many of questions and too little time to make a coherent thread right now...it might take me a while to put the thread up.


thx for the info btw, Jimmy

[jimmyinkedup]

I see what you're saying about staying on-topic. I think this post stays on the subject of DHT-based steroids , and the stuff about DHT-based steroids use in cutting is farily general information.

(Um, my source "forgot" to include the oral Stanozolol (Winstrol ) in my shipment. The source was a U.S. underground lab.)

So I did some reading on the DHT-based profiles and decided to order "name brand" Proviron from the U.K. My decision to go with Proviron over other DHTs (Masteron , Primobolan , Anavar , Stanozolol) was based on active life (in hours/days), the androgenic /anabolic ratio, side-effects, and most importantly, the amount of androgenic, DHT activity you get for the cost.

Anyway, with no Winstrol/Stanozolol, I went shopping for brand-name Winstrol this time, but started having second thoughts on Winstrol. As I read the DHT-based steroid profiles, I found steroids with a higher Androgenic/Anabolic ratio than "Stanozolol(Winstrol). For example, Winstrol's Androgenic/Anabolic Ratio is 30:320, and Proviron's is 30-40:100-150, so I guesstimated that Proviron's DHT-based, androgenic effects probably sell at a lower price than a brand-name DHT-based alternative, like Winstrol, Masteron, or Primobolan.

Then as I went over the DHT-based steroids' profiles, I finally realized the primary use for DHT-based steroids in a stack: for cutting! The DHT binds strongly to the ARs in fat cells resulting in a lipolytic effect. This seems on-topic with the thread. It might be useful to others who don't get DHT-based steroids like Masteron or Primobolan. Just like I hadn't.

I've been meaning to post a new thread, on "The Science of Cutting", but I've got too many of questions and too little time to make a coherent thread right now...it might take me a while to put the thread up.


thx for the info btw, Jimmy

I wasn't implying you were off topic at all. In fact I was saying your stack example was very good one of the synergy a stack can afford you.
I will say and caution you to this, do NOT put a lot of stock in A/A ratio and how they translate to real world effects of a steroid. There are a slew of examples where the #'s just do not coorlate to the actual real world effects a compound will offer/afford to you.
Thanks for posting!

[anabolicsqa]

Nah, thank you man.

Good to be aware of the point you made about A/A ratios...but I'm left somewhat confused how to evaluate gear if I can't trust the numbers.

Until I joined the forum, a lot of what I "know" about steroids has come from
(a) real-life experience,
(b)steroid profiles
(c)research articles (for example, what's listed under the References sections in the steroid profiles or on PubMed).

Besides the forums, real-life bodybuilding friends(mine are distant now), or experience by trial-and-error, are there any other resources where you'd find realistic information on gear?

[Avi3510]

Thanks for posting. New to this whole scene. This was very informative. I want to be smart and not rush. Thank you for breaking this all down.

[anabolicsqa]

np man,

if this discussion helps others, then all the better.

and feel free to like the posts you think really helped!

[kelkel]

Nah, thank you man.

.but I'm left somewhat confused how to evaluate gear if I can't trust the numbers.

By doing exactly what you're doing now. Researching, asking questions and striving to learn.

[GirlyGymRat]

Interesting read. Seems most of the "female" friendly AAS are all in the same class.

[Avi3510]

np man,

if this discussion helps others, then all the better.

and feel free to like the posts you think really helped!

How do you like a post?

[a.connolly7]

Thanks for the post! Really broke things down for me

[bloodchoke]

Wow. This is the part where, if i was reading this in a book, I would snap it shut and think about what I just read for a couple of hours. I started researching using gear about six months ago and have learned quite a bit about individual compounds, but this is the first I've read of stacking, outside of reading examples of other people's stacks. I feel like I've walked through a new door and all of the tidbits of information are coming together. Thanks so much. (Now I'm considering adding deca to my next (second) cycle.)

[Jamesmuscle]

great post