HCG or no HCG during cycle?

[_-KL-_]

I've read on the topic, and it seems to be a 50/50 split on whether or not this is beneficial.
Some say to run it with PCT to help the transition....some say to run it while on.

Initially, I was planning on running it while on...but here are some thoughts:

Adding HCG to a cycle increases estrogen conversion. (More sides, more likely to need AI)
Even though you've added HCG, you'll still be shutdown from the test!!

So if you're going to be shutdown from the test, why take HCG?
Logically, if one sends a signal to shut down the testes, and the other sends the signal to turn the testes on.......
Does the HCG actually turn the testes on...?

Wouldn't it be more practical to utilize the HCG during & after PCT?
I'm pretty torn between the two, as I've heard great arguments on both sides.

[Bodacious]

Take it during. I see you said more likely to need an AI.
I would cycle with an AI and HCG or thats what I am going to do. Because I asked a lot of questions and have been planing.

To answer your question DURING.

[Bodacious]

250iu e3d
AI .25mg EoD

[derekkpapa1]

250iu e3d
AI .25mg EoD

2x this agreed

[lunatikgixxer]

HCG is a Luteinizing Hormone Mimetic. HCG is dosed in iu’s and comes in various sizes most common being a 5000iu kit. Luteinizing Hormone (LH) is a hormone produced by the Pituitary that Stimulate the leydig cells causing the production of testosterone . HCG mimics this LH, stimulating the leydig cells causing the production of testosterone. This takes place in the testes.
HCG has been used in many different ways over the years by steroid users, many of them incorrect. The proper use of HCG in my opinion is using it while on cycle, to maintain testicular function, allowing for an easier recovery of testicular function post cycle. There are added benefits of HCG as well such as backfilling hormonal pathways. When shutdown, hormones such as dhea and pregnenolone are not produced. More and more it has been discovered these are not simply testosterone precursors but provide function and benefit on their own. HCG allows for the production and thus the benefits these hormones have to offer. As we know steroids shut down the HPTA (hypo pituitary testicular axis) thus testicular function ceases. We then use Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) to try to re-induce the function of the HPTA as quickly as possible. The use of HCG ON CYCLE maintains this testicular function allowing for a smoother, faster easier recovery of natural testicular function. It should not be taken only at the end of the cycle in large doses; it should not be taken on large doses at all as it may cause desensitization of the leydig cells. It also should not be taken during PCT as it is Suppressive of pituitary function of LH production. The proper method for HCG use is to use it on cycle, starting at the beginning of your cycle and running it up to 3 days before you start your PCT. Proper dosage should be 250iu’s inject 2x/week (ie: mon/thurs). HCG is often overlooked as an ancillary but thankfully is becoming more and more widely used and accepted as a standard part of a steroid cycle protocol. Rightfully so.
Taken from the ARG.

[_-KL-_]

250iu e3d
AI .25mg EoD

This was my intention...but I was considering having the Adex on hand and using it at the first sign of gyno.
Reason being, to maximize gains. I've heard using an AI when not needed can hinder gains.

However, if running HCG while on - I'd choose to run the Adex from the get go.

[_-KL-_]

HCG is a Luteinizing Hormone Mimetic. HCG is dosed in iu’s and comes in various sizes most common being a 5000iu kit. Luteinizing Hormone (LH) is a hormone produced by the Pituitary that Stimulate the leydig cells causing the production of testosterone . HCG mimics this LH, stimulating the leydig cells causing the production of testosterone. This takes place in the testes.
HCG has been used in many different ways over the years by steroid users, many of them incorrect. The proper use of HCG in my opinion is using it while on cycle, to maintain testicular function, allowing for an easier recovery of testicular function post cycle. There are added benefits of HCG as well such as backfilling hormonal pathways. When shutdown, hormones such as dhea and pregnenolone are not produced. More and more it has been discovered these are not simply testosterone precursors but provide function and benefit on their own. HCG allows for the production and thus the benefits these hormones have to offer. As we know steroids shut down the HPTA (hypo pituitary testicular axis) thus testicular function ceases. We then use Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) to try to re-induce the function of the HPTA as quickly as possible. The use of HCG ON CYCLE maintains this testicular function allowing for a smoother, faster easier recovery of natural testicular function. It should not be taken only at the end of the cycle in large doses; it should not be taken on large doses at all as it may cause desensitization of the leydig cells. It also should not be taken during PCT as it is Suppressive of pituitary function of LH production. The proper method for HCG use is to use it on cycle, starting at the beginning of your cycle and running it up to 3 days before you start your PCT. Proper dosage should be 250iu’s inject 2x/week (ie: mon/thurs). HCG is often overlooked as an ancillary but thankfully is becoming more and more widely used and accepted as a standard part of a steroid cycle protocol. Rightfully so.
Taken from the ARG.

That's exactly what I was looking for.
Reading Austinite's post about HCG also persuaded me towards using it while ON.
Just wanted to confirm it's practicality while ON, instead of opting to use it after cycle.

[lunatikgixxer]

Goodluck!

[Khazima]

This was my intention...but I was considering having the Adex on hand and using it at the first sign of gyno.
Reason being, to maximize gains. I've heard using an AI when not needed can hinder gains.

However, if running HCG while on - I'd choose to run the Adex from the get go.

You need to run adex from the get go to manage your E2, if you already start getting gyno it's too late, AI's don't reverse gyno they're just for getting your E2 to a good level.

[_-KL-_]

You need to run adex from the get go to manage your E2, if you already start getting gyno it's too late, AI's don't reverse gyno they're just for getting your E2 to a good level.

Good to know. I'm planning on it!
This is what I had in mind:

WEEK 1-8
Test E 500mg/wk (Mon/Thurs)
HCG 500mg/week(Mon/Thurs)

WEEK 9-10 DELOAD
HCG 500mg/week(Mon/Thurs)

WEEK 11-18
Test E 250mg/wk (Mon/Thurs)
*EQ* 400mg/wk (Mon/Thurs)
HCG 500mg/week(Mon/Thurs)
WEEK 19-20 DELOAD
HCG 500mg/week(Mon/Thurs)

ADEX .25mg EOD Until PCT starts
HCG until 3 days before PCT starts

PCT:
WEEK 21: 40mg Nolva + 75mg Clomid ed
WEEK 22: 20mg Nolva + 50mg Clomid ed
WEEK 23: 20mg Nolva + 50mg Clomid ed
WEEK 24: 20mg Nolva + 50mg Clomid ed

Basically the slingshot system with back-to back 8 week cycles.

[lunatikgixxer]

Nice good luck. Arimidex is good but ive read tons of opinions and threads about aromasin being a better AI simply because arimidex only disables Estro. So basically once youre off Adex at the end of your cycle it is going to bounce back with all that estro youve been putting off. Aromasin completely disables estro so there will be no bounce back effect of estro at the end of your cycle. I will try to find the info again.

[lunatikgixxer]

Taken from allaboutpeptides .com

Exemestane (Aromasin ) is a Type 1 inhibitor and so therefore is a steroidal inhibitor or suicidal aromatase inhibitor. It’s called this because it lowers estrogen production in the body by attaching to the aromatase enzyme, and permanently deactivating it, and being a steroidal type 1 inhibitor it has androgenic effects. It is especially good as a test boosting AI as it prevents SHBG releasing more free test and as it averages an 85% rate of estrogen suppression which translates to an overall reduction in estradiol levels of about 50%, as well as raising testosterone to a significant degree it makes it quite exciting. Because its a type 1 inhibitor it offers other promising aspects, once it deactivates the aromatase enzyme those particular enzymes will no longer function, even if your body produces more aromatize, it cant do anything because it cant bind. In this case, the advantage of using a suicidal aromatize inhibitor is that it really won’t cause much, if any, noticeable “rebound” in estrogen when you cease using it, so no rebound gyno which is quite possible with Anastrozole and letrozole . Also as well as reducing water retention, having no negative impact on good cholesterol, no chance of rebound gyno, its androgenic effects make it great to use in pct, as a pre workout boost, 25mg taken and hour or so before training always does its job for me, and helps keep strength up during PCT with is mild androgenic effect. Talking of PCT it is also the only AI that should be used with Nolva, it doesnt interfere with the actions of nolvadex , nolva will reduce about 60 percent of the effect of both letro and arimadex.. so it seems pointless, thought they are great on cycle for reducing estrogen, once into PCT its a different story and Aromasin is king. Remember we said above it permanently deactivates the aromatize enzyme.. well it means it doesnt need to be taken everyday.. and it will still increase IGF levels substantially, which normally plummet in pct, and still prevent any estrogen and water retention…. this permanent effect on the Aromatize enzyme maybe the reason why nolva doesn’t interfere with it.

So in summary it has the potential to increase testosterone by upwards of 40 percent, increase Insulin like growth factor im muscle, stimulate androgen receptors, lower estrogen, increase free test, has numerous uses, doesnt impair bone mineral content or have any adverse effect on your lipids… Aromasin is quite simply the King of AI’s during PCT. I used Nolva as an example here as 25 mgs is as effective in studies as 150mg of clomid. Anastrozole and its uses. Half life : 46.8 hours.

[_-KL-_]

Taken from allaboutpeptides .com

Exemestane (Aromasin ) is a Type 1 inhibitor and so therefore is a steroidal inhibitor or suicidal aromatase inhibitor. It’s called this because it lowers estrogen production in the body by attaching to the aromatase enzyme, and permanently deactivating it, and being a steroidal type 1 inhibitor it has androgenic effects. It is especially good as a test boosting AI as it prevents SHBG releasing more free test and as it averages an 85% rate of estrogen suppression which translates to an overall reduction in estradiol levels of about 50%, as well as raising testosterone to a significant degree it makes it quite exciting. Because its a type 1 inhibitor it offers other promising aspects, once it deactivates the aromatase enzyme those particular enzymes will no longer function, even if your body produces more aromatize, it cant do anything because it cant bind. In this case, the advantage of using a suicidal aromatize inhibitor is that it really won’t cause much, if any, noticeable “rebound” in estrogen when you cease using it, so no rebound gyno which is quite possible with Anastrozole and letrozole . Also as well as reducing water retention, having no negative impact on good cholesterol, no chance of rebound gyno, its androgenic effects make it great to use in pct, as a pre workout boost, 25mg taken and hour or so before training always does its job for me, and helps keep strength up during PCT with is mild androgenic effect. Talking of PCT it is also the only AI that should be used with Nolva, it doesnt interfere with the actions of nolvadex , nolva will reduce about 60 percent of the effect of both letro and arimadex.. so it seems pointless, thought they are great on cycle for reducing estrogen, once into PCT its a different story and Aromasin is king. Remember we said above it permanently deactivates the aromatize enzyme.. well it means it doesnt need to be taken everyday.. and it will still increase IGF levels substantially, which normally plummet in pct, and still prevent any estrogen and water retention…. this permanent effect on the Aromatize enzyme maybe the reason why nolva doesn’t interfere with it.

So in summary it has the potential to increase testosterone by upwards of 40 percent, increase Insulin like growth factor im muscle, stimulate androgen receptors, lower estrogen, increase free test, has numerous uses, doesnt impair bone mineral content or have any adverse effect on your lipids… Aromasin is quite simply the King of AI’s during PCT. I used Nolva as an example here as 25 mgs is as effective in studies as 150mg of clomid. Anastrozole and its uses. Half life : 46.8 hours.

This was a really great read! Going to study Aromasin some more....
Perhaps I could include this in PCT to avoid any rebound from Adex.

[lunatikgixxer]

Type in Aromasin vs Arimidex into google and read the first link. Thats where that article came from^^

[maddad]

I love exemestane. Can I run that pct without crashing my e2?

[BulkCity]

i know people who have cycled for over 6 years consistently and never even herd of hcg , got great results and has had kids
you'll be find if you dont run hcg in your cycle

[jimmyinkedup]

Taken from allaboutpeptides .com

Exemestane (Aromasin ) is a Type 1 inhibitor and so therefore is a steroidal inhibitor or suicidal aromatase inhibitor. It’s called this because it lowers estrogen production in the body by attaching to the aromatase enzyme, and permanently deactivating it, and being a steroidal type 1 inhibitor it has androgenic effects. It is especially good as a test boosting AI as it prevents SHBG releasing more free test and as it averages an 85% rate of estrogen suppression which translates to an overall reduction in estradiol levels of about 50%, as well as raising testosterone to a significant degree it makes it quite exciting. Because its a type 1 inhibitor it offers other promising aspects, once it deactivates the aromatase enzyme those particular enzymes will no longer function, even if your body produces more aromatize, it cant do anything because it cant bind. In this case, the advantage of using a suicidal aromatize inhibitor is that it really won’t cause much, if any, noticeable “rebound” in estrogen when you cease using it, so no rebound gyno which is quite possible with Anastrozole and letrozole . Also as well as reducing water retention, having no negative impact on good cholesterol, no chance of rebound gyno, its androgenic effects make it great to use in pct, as a pre workout boost, 25mg taken and hour or so before training always does its job for me, and helps keep strength up during PCT with is mild androgenic effect. Talking of PCT it is also the only AI that should be used with Nolva, it doesnt interfere with the actions of nolvadex , nolva will reduce about 60 percent of the effect of both letro and arimadex.. so it seems pointless, thought they are great on cycle for reducing estrogen, once into PCT its a different story and Aromasin is king. Remember we said above it permanently deactivates the aromatize enzyme.. well it means it doesnt need to be taken everyday.. and it will still increase IGF levels substantially, which normally plummet in pct, and still prevent any estrogen and water retention…. this permanent effect on the Aromatize enzyme maybe the reason why nolva doesn’t interfere with it.

So in summary it has the potential to increase testosterone by upwards of 40 percent, increase Insulin like growth factor im muscle, stimulate androgen receptors, lower estrogen, increase free test, has numerous uses, doesnt impair bone mineral content or have any adverse effect on your lipids… Aromasin is quite simply the King of AI’s during PCT. I used Nolva as an example here as 25 mgs is as effective in studies as 150mg of clomid. Anastrozole and its uses. Half life : 46.8 hours.

There are many things wrong with this. First of all there will be no rebound gyn as you would transition from your cycle and AI right to serms in pct thus preventing gyno. Also there is no clinical significance to the reduction in blood levels of adex when run with tamoxifen . Meaning the end result in the reduction in aromatase and thus estrogen is exactly thee same so you can run dex with tamox with no reduction in effectiveness what so ever. There is no place for an ai during pct as quite simply there is no test present to armonatize to estrogen upon the start of pct and also the estrogen agonist/antagonist effects of the serms (clomid and nolva) are part of what make them so effective - you do not want to in any way negate this.
While this write up sounds good it is , in fact, nonsense.

[Juced_porkchop]

There are many things wrong with this. First of all there will be no rebound gyn as you would transition from your cycle and AI right to serms in pct thus preventing gyno. Also there is no clinical significance to the reduction in blood levels of adex when run with tamoxifen . Meaning the end result in the reduction in aromatase and thus estrogen is exactly thee same so you can run dex with tamox with no reduction in effectiveness what so ever. There is no place for an ai during pct as quite simply there is no test present to armonatize to estrogen upon the start of pct and also the estrogen agonist/antagonist effects of the serms (clomid and nolva) are part of what make them so effective - you do not want to in any way negate this.
While this write up sounds good it is , in fact, nonsense.

I have to agree with Jimmy here on all points... I really cant add to this.
Noobs listen^^^

[Mrandersonvv]

As far as hcg vs. No hcg could HCGenerate be a substitute for actual hcg?

In other words how different are the two?

[jimmyinkedup]

As far as hcg vs. No hcg could HCGenerate be a substitute for actual hcg?

In other words how different are the two?

Night and day. You might as well cap grass clippings from your front lawn and take them as it would do about as much for you as HCGenerate would.

[< <Samson> >]

Kinda funny, but true - I have talked to a handful of local juicers who were like "wtf is that HCG shit"


My question was: you have any bawls left? Well, no - I'm on test


I'll stick to HCG - cheap as hell & I still somewhat have my nuts

[motobrox]

As far as hcg vs. No hcg could HCGenerate be a substitute for actual hcg?

In other words how different are the two?

One works, one doesn't. It is what it is, these pro this and that compounds are useless / dangerous

[motobrox]

Kinda funny, but true - I have talked to a handful of local juicers who were like "wtf is that HCG shit"

My question was: you have any bawls left? Well, no - I'm on test

I'll stick to HCG - cheap as hell & I still somewhat have my nuts

I can't believe how the world has changed. Back in the day hcg was always a post cycle thing. Which from personal experience, always did the job alongside tamoxifen . I'm running it in cycle currently and my balls have experienced minimal shrinkage, so all is good? Gear used to be a gym fly only thing. Now anybody can buy it on the net, there's big trouble ahead for some.

[Mrandersonvv]

Night and day. You might as well cap grass clippings from your front lawn and take them as it would do about as much for you as HCGenerate would.

Lol Damn and HCGenerate has "claimed" to do exactly what HCG does... People even have good reviews on it. Thanks for the reply though, on thoughts about going on cycle it was never the gyno or the injections that got to me, it was always the thought of my testicles shrinking and never busting as much honestly lol. Reading more on it I don't understand why anyone wouldn't use it. I know I will..

[_-KL-_]

I can't believe how the world has changed. Back in the day hcg was always a post cycle thing. Which from personal experience, always did the job alongside tamoxifen. I'm running it in cycle currently and my balls have experienced minimal shrinkage, so all is good? Gear used to be a gym fly only thing. Now anybody can buy it on the net, there's big trouble ahead for some.

Yeah, I've seen a lot of contradictory stuff on the topic.
A lot of old school lifters use big amounts after cycle when OFF.

After looking into it more - I'm definitely seeing more benefits of running HCG while ON.