Effects of Cycles without Test and non-test AAS

[razman]

I'm going to preface the following questions with the fact that I am NOT intending to run a testosterone-less cycle but am merely trying to better understand the effects of such cycles on the HPTA system. Moreover, for the sake of simplicity I'm not going to discuss including AIs or other ancillaries in cycles.

Test Only Cycle: It's easy and intuitive to understand that if one were to run a test only cycle their body reacts but shutting down endogenous test production since there is ample exogenous test floating around. Specifically, the massive amounts of exogenous test causes the hypothalamus to stop producing GnRH, which in turn stops FSH and LH production, which in turn shuts down test production. I get that.

Non-test AAS and Test-less Cycles: However, what effects do non-test AAS and consequently test-less cycles have on the HPTA system? For instance, if one were to take only d-bol without test for 6 weeks what would happen to their testosterone blood serum levels?

Based on what I've read it appears that non-test AAS still shut down endogenous test production but do NOT satisfy the body's need for testosterone, and thus a supplementary amount of exogenous test (e.g., at least 150 mg/wk) is needed to "maintain normal bodily functions." I don't quite understand why the body would react like that. For example, if taking d-bol, winstrol, or anavar all by itself without test causes the body to shut down endogenous test production it only makes sense that these compounds, which are derivatives of test itself, would also replace the need for testosterone in the body. It seems odd that the body would get duped into thinking there's plenty of test floating around in the system causing it to cease natural test production but in reality the non-test AAS don't provide the same functionality as test for the body's purposes.

Any help understanding these processes would be much appreciated!

[Chicagotarsier]

I might get smacked but here is the skinny from all the books I read.

It has nothing to do with what you take. Test cycles do not shut you down because you take test. Test cycles shut you down for the same reason Tren shuts you down.

You saturate the androgen receptors.

There are MANY things that will impact the negative feedback loop but from your question ....CYCLING....it is an androgen receptor thing. Tren shuts you down for much longer than test...as is the same with many orals....because it leaves behind metabolites and these mimic the saturation of the receptor for feedback purposes.

Anavar can...but usually does not...shut down test production (this is where I get slapped) because it cannot saturate the androgen receptor alone. If you take something with Anavar then yes..it will most likely saturate the andro receptor.

*****Also as a note Estrogen is a feedback item. If your E2 is high it will send a negative feedback response....because it is only going to be in the male body via armoatization which means too much test. The feedback loop is very complex.

[Nobuddy]

Chicagotarsier -

Wow! Thanks! I've only been awake long enough to shower, but have already learned something. I had never really asked why, just knew that YES a 19 Nor would shut u down and not replace it. I never really wondered about what he just asked til he asked it. Appreciate the info!

[magic32]

Adding to what Chi-town said...

Any form of aas will register within the negative feedback loop (NFL), as it is all either Test or a Test-derivative. Thus all aas at least suppresses if not totally oppresses (shuts down) natty - endogenous Test. The determinant is the compounds harshness (anabolic:androgenic) ratio, largely androgenic. Thus harsher aas like Test, Tren, Deca, Halo, etc. will necessarily shut you down...and quickly, whereas less harsh aas such as Winny, Var, Tbol, Primo, etc. are more inclined to merely suppress natty...this is why they rarely if at all require counterbalancing by AIs, HCG, etc.

Administering Test as the base of a cycle essentially provides exogenous amounts of what is being endogenously halted. Consequently, the body tends not to suffer from hypogonadic (low testosterone) symptoms while Test is supplemented. Please not the use of the qualifying words "inclined" and "tends" above, because these are wholly normal physiological responses, there are also rarely cited atypical or abnormal responses which lay outside the norm, i.e., it is possible to have a Test-induced decline (usually temporary) in libido, penile rigidity, staying power, etc.

It's obviously a lot more complex when you consider Test's impact on the Test:Estro ratio, and related unbalanced side effects, but this is the basis. In short, Test is Best...don't cycle without it.