Sustanon 250 or Test E? Feedback please

[JerseyAP]

Hey guys. I am on my fourth cycle currently and have done mainly sustanon . I added Tren on the 3rd cycle, and it worked out well, but the side effects are exactly as I had researched about them. So I'm planning ahead for my 5th cycle, and wanted to get some advice. Understanding the attributes of both Sus and Test-e, with which one have you had best results? I'm not looking to stack with Mast or Tren again. I just want to do simple gains, and I'll take care of the rest with my diet, training and rest. Let me know your experiences if you don't mind guys.

Stats:
height - 5'9"
weight - 184
bf: 10%

[XxAndreaxX]

test is test, for me, enth is better than sust, less pip and cheaper and less spikes.
regarding results, test is test

[Buster Brown]

There is no advantage one over the other. Tes e may kick in a week earlier and sus you have to wait longer to start pct but you can backload with prop so there's really no advantage.

[voshi]

Sus, in my opinion, is a poor and extremely overrated drug. While test is test, sus has to be administered how it was designed to be administered and not 'shot twice a week' or anything like that. Way too much spike with sus and its expensive because of its somehow 'glorious' reputation. Test is test but keep it simple with test e. Without going into 'novel mode' sustanon , if used for BB purposes, should be administer once every 2 weeks (4ml once every 2 weeks for a 500mg a week dose). This way the esters take effect in a sustained release (as it was designed to do) keeping levels stable in the blood.

[Buster Brown]

Sus, in my opinion, is a poor and extremely overrated drug. While test is test, sus has to be administered how it was designed to be administered and not 'shot twice a week' or anything like that. Way too much spike with sus and its expensive because of its somehow 'glorious' reputation. Test is test but keep it simple with test e. Without going into 'novel mode' sustanon, if used for BB purposes, should be administer once every 2 weeks (4ml once every 2 weeks for a 500mg a week dose). This way the esters take effect in a sustained release (as it was designed to do) keeping levels stable in the blood.

That maybe your opinion but it has served me well for many years and packed on loads of muscle. Sometimes it boils down to what you have access to!

[< <Samson> >]

Test is test - period

Done it every which pay possible - there is zero dif

[voshi]

That maybe your opinion but it has served me well for many years and packed on loads of muscle. Sometimes it boils down to what you have access to!

Dead right, sometimes it does boil down to what one can get their hands on... I used sus for my first 2 cycles. But if u have access to test e/c and sus then test e/c would be a better option for BB purposes as the single ester is easier to keep blood levels stable yeah?

So there kinda is a difference... Without being a smartarse, I would love to hear the benifit of a test blend (designed to be administered in TRT patients with less frequent shots ie once a month). Not dissing anyone that uses it but single esters are quite simply a better choice.

If ur going to use Tren for example, would you use ace, enth or hex... Or would you use a blend for some reason?

[< <Samson> >]

If ur going to use Tren for example, would you use ace, enth or hex... Or would you use a blend for some reason?

Test is test

But, tren - well


Ace is the only way to go IMO - due to a few factors. One being that if shit goes to hell, you can pull the plug fast & not battle sides for ages until it's out of your system

Hex sounds like so cool shit - But, is just to over priced

[voshi]

Test is test

But, tren - well


Ace is the only way to go IMO - due to a few factors. One being that if shit goes to hell, you can pull the plug fast & not battle sides for ages until it's out of your system

Hex sounds like so cool shit - But, is just to over priced

Lol. If test is test, then tren is tren, which is correct. And thats not what im getting at. Im saying there is no advantage of using blends, unless you don't like needles and administer it how it is designed to be. If one were to choose a drug, single esters are better due to the ease of keeping blood levels consistent. Its a no brainer.

OP, if you can get test e then use test e. If you can only get sus then that is fine because test is test. Was just trying to outline the uselessness of blended esters in bodybuilding.

Peace.

[voshi]

Btw Samson, if you think tren ace is the only way to go (not disagreeing at all here) then you will have no interest in hex at all given that it is a very similar halflife to enth. Seems that people still believe esters have some sort of play on how the drug that its attached to works. Release time is the only thing an ester plays a role in. Hex doesnt make the TREN any different to the TREN with an ace or an enth ester.

[Gaspaco]

Test is test that is true!

But some people reacts on different ester better then others!

And SUST is pretty good compound and remember the point of 4 esters is for the main purpose of this compound and that is TRT and not juicing!

[voshi]

Ok wasnt going post this, but here is the point i was trying to make... Excerpt from another forum...

Abstract: Sustanon And It’s Use
By OuchThatHurts

Sustanon. Every BBer in the world knows the name. Every “noob” has to try it. But is it a good choice for BBers? Not really. Unless you know what you’re doing and even then you would likely have better and more stable results with less expensive and easier to maintain compounds. Let’s take a look at Sustanon.

Sustanon was originally designed and formulated by Organon as a timed-release compound used for androgen replacement for hypogonadic males, HRT, and all the other uses where androgens are indicated. The difference being that Sustanon (sustained release) was designed to be administered once per month. By combining multiple esters in such a way, starting with shorter chain molecules (propionate ) and progressing to longer ones (decanoate), you can design a formula that takes effect almost immediately and releases it’s payload (testosterone ) over a length of time.

So let’s look at the esters in Sustanon. Would anyone consider stacking two forms of esterified test in a single cycle? For example, would you combine propionate and enanthate ? If so, how would you do it? Would you take 30mg or propionate every other day or twice a week along with 100mg of enanthate at the same time? Of course not! Well not only are you doing that with sust, but with FOUR esters, not just two. Testosterone is testosterone whether your body cleaves it from a short molecule or a long molecule. Many people still think that these different esters of the same organic compound are somehow different or “synergistic”. That’s almost like saying the caffeine in coffee is different than the caffeine in Pepsi. And if you stack coffee and Pepsi you’ll have a more pronounced effect or synergistic effect. There IS a difference but in only one regard and that is that you will get MORE raw test mg/mg with shorter esters than longer ones. The reason for this is simple. The larger the molecule, the more carbons are added which increases the total weight of the molecule. In short, more of the molecule’s weight is taken up by carbon and not testosterone. The additional carbon and occasionally oxygen atoms also increase the compound’s solubility and half-life but that is beyond this article. So what esters are we dealing with in Sustanon?

propionate 30mg (2 days)
phenylpropionate 30mg (4 days)
isocaproate 60mg (9 days)
decanoate 100mg (15 days)

In parenthesis, you see their approximate half lives. It is no coincidence that each ester is roughly twice the quantity of the one before it nor is it coincidental that each half life is approx. double the length of the one before it. Still beyond this article. Moving on…

I decided to experiment with Sustanon after receiving a fairly large quantity. Even though I had plenty, I was still thinking greedily and wanted to get the most out of my testosterone dollar. I started with the twice-a-week approach. A month later, I had no gains, a bad flu, and had used almost 20 amps (1ml) at 250mg/ml. I wanted to know what had gone wrong. It didn’t take long to figure out. During the first week, all that had taken effect was the prop and phenylprop. And 120mg total (out of 500mg) is all that my system saw. That’s about enough to suppress the axis but that’s it. Throw two amps in the trash. The second week, probably not much different and had used 4 amps (1000mg). By the third week I had the flu. Not exactly a surprise with all the HPTA suppression and unstable test levels. Most people have heard of the “sust flu”? Well, there you go. I was beginning to plan a PCT regimen when it dawned on me… I’m not getting enough STABLE, high levels of testosterone ! So not long after that I moved everything to the all to common every-other-day (EOD) approach. Don’t get me wrong, I started noticing results but then again, who wouldn’t? This is a shotgun approach! If you had propionate and enanthate would you just keep dosing until something worked? No. You wouldn’t. The idea there is to just keep shooting the stuff and “one of them esters” will eventually work. Personally, I don’t like this approach. I think we can do much better. After all, don’t we owe it to Organon to abuse their product properly? SO… how well did it work? I’d have 3 good days, followed by 3 bad days. I was emotional. I wanted to sleep all the time. I had a runny nose. Two different blood tests during this time proved that I had almost twice the free test in my system as the blood test a week later. By this point, my great buy was turning into a great waste. I took 2 months off, did a fairly aggressive PCT and started planning my next cycle.

Here is where it seemed to all come together. I decided to try taking Sustanon as Organon intended, but in BBer amounts. This meant using it less frequently but using larger doses. Using it as a SUSTained-release product. Again, being greedy like I am, I didn’t want to waste the propionate in the Sust so I scheduled the entire cycle dosage amounts based on what I would take if I was doing a propionate-only cycle. This meant 4 amps or 1000mgs. That gave me a starting dose of 120mg propionate (30mg x 4) and instead of taking the next dose of propionate, I knew I could just relax knowing that as the propionate fell off, the phenylpropionate would begin and as the phenylpropionate fell off, the isocaproate would begin, etc, etc. This worked phenomenal and I began the cycle figuring on every two weeks (one decanoate half life). In reality, I played with this until I found a sweet spot of 8 days (approx. half of a half life). This gave me testosterone levels that remained stable throughout the cycle and at levels that were good for the results I wanted. You may need to adjust this time period to suit your physiology.

Conclusion: If I were to ever use Sustanon in a cycle again, which I doubt since there are less expensive, more stable compounds available, I would use it as intended in BBer amounts. I would do 1000-1500mg once every 8 days. This would allow for it to take immediate effect and with a few additional amps of propionate, you could use it with predictable stability right up until a few days before starting PCT. This dosing regimen, in my opinion, combined with equipoise or nandrolone would be a very productive cycle. Given the choice, I would still stick with enanthate. The injections are usually painless, the stability is high, the half life is fairly long. If you don’t mind EOD injects then prop or phenylprop would also be better choices than Sustanon in my opinion. Especially phenylprop. You would likely have to compound this yourself though as I haven’t seen this ester alone very often except in the case of nandrolone phenylprop (fast-acting deca ).

[< <Samson> >]

Ah

Regurgitation

[voshi]

Ah

Regurgitation

Factual* regurgitation... Worth a read cowboy, you might get what the whole point of the post was.

[NACH3]

Ok wasnt going post this, but here is the point i was trying to make... Excerpt from another forum...

Abstract: Sustanon And It’s Use
By OuchThatHurts

Sustanon. Every BBer in the world knows the name. Every “noob” has to try it. But is it a good choice for BBers? Not really. Unless you know what you’re doing and even then you would likely have better and more stable results with less expensive and easier to maintain compounds. Let’s take a look at Sustanon.

Sustanon was originally designed and formulated by Organon as a timed-release compound used for androgen replacement for hypogonadic males, HRT, and all the other uses where androgens are indicated. The difference being that Sustanon (sustained release) was designed to be administered once per month. By combining multiple esters in such a way, starting with shorter chain molecules (propionate ) and progressing to longer ones (decanoate), you can design a formula that takes effect almost immediately and releases it’s payload (testosterone ) over a length of time.

So let’s look at the esters in Sustanon. Would anyone consider stacking two forms of esterified test in a single cycle? For example, would you combine propionate and enanthate ? If so, how would you do it? Would you take 30mg or propionate every other day or twice a week along with 100mg of enanthate at the same time? Of course not! Well not only are you doing that with sust, but with FOUR esters, not just two. Testosterone is testosterone whether your body cleaves it from a short molecule or a long molecule. Many people still think that these different esters of the same organic compound are somehow different or “synergistic”. That’s almost like saying the caffeine in coffee is different than the caffeine in Pepsi. And if you stack coffee and Pepsi you’ll have a more pronounced effect or synergistic effect. There IS a difference but in only one regard and that is that you will get MORE raw test mg/mg with shorter esters than longer ones. The reason for this is simple. The larger the molecule, the more carbons are added which increases the total weight of the molecule. In short, more of the molecule’s weight is taken up by carbon and not testosterone. The additional carbon and occasionally oxygen atoms also increase the compound’s solubility and half-life but that is beyond this article. So what esters are we dealing with in Sustanon?

propionate 30mg (2 days)
phenylpropionate 30mg (4 days)
isocaproate 60mg (9 days)
decanoate 100mg (15 days)

In parenthesis, you see their approximate half lives. It is no coincidence that each ester is roughly twice the quantity of the one before it nor is it coincidental that each half life is approx. double the length of the one before it. Still beyond this article. Moving on…

I decided to experiment with Sustanon after receiving a fairly large quantity. Even though I had plenty, I was still thinking greedily and wanted to get the most out of my testosterone dollar. I started with the twice-a-week approach. A month later, I had no gains, a bad flu, and had used almost 20 amps (1ml) at 250mg/ml. I wanted to know what had gone wrong. It didn’t take long to figure out. During the first week, all that had taken effect was the prop and phenylprop. And 120mg total (out of 500mg) is all that my system saw. That’s about enough to suppress the axis but that’s it. Throw two amps in the trash. The second week, probably not much different and had used 4 amps (1000mg). By the third week I had the flu. Not exactly a surprise with all the HPTA suppression and unstable test levels. Most people have heard of the “sust flu”? Well, there you go. I was beginning to plan a PCT regimen when it dawned on me… I’m not getting enough STABLE, high levels of testosterone ! So not long after that I moved everything to the all to common every-other-day (EOD) approach. Don’t get me wrong, I started noticing results but then again, who wouldn’t? This is a shotgun approach! If you had propionate and enanthate would you just keep dosing until something worked? No. You wouldn’t. The idea there is to just keep shooting the stuff and “one of them esters” will eventually work. Personally, I don’t like this approach. I think we can do much better. After all, don’t we owe it to Organon to abuse their product properly? SO… how well did it work? I’d have 3 good days, followed by 3 bad days. I was emotional. I wanted to sleep all the time. I had a runny nose. Two different blood tests during this time proved that I had almost twice the free test in my system as the blood test a week later. By this point, my great buy was turning into a great waste. I took 2 months off, did a fairly aggressive PCT and started planning my next cycle.

Here is where it seemed to all come together. I decided to try taking Sustanon as Organon intended, but in BBer amounts. This meant using it less frequently but using larger doses. Using it as a SUSTained-release product. Again, being greedy like I am, I didn’t want to waste the propionate in the Sust so I scheduled the entire cycle dosage amounts based on what I would take if I was doing a propionate-only cycle. This meant 4 amps or 1000mgs. That gave me a starting dose of 120mg propionate (30mg x 4) and instead of taking the next dose of propionate, I knew I could just relax knowing that as the propionate fell off, the phenylpropionate would begin and as the phenylpropionate fell off, the isocaproate would begin, etc, etc. This worked phenomenal and I began the cycle figuring on every two weeks (one decanoate half life). In reality, I played with this until I found a sweet spot of 8 days (approx. half of a half life). This gave me testosterone levels that remained stable throughout the cycle and at levels that were good for the results I wanted. You may need to adjust this time period to suit your physiology.

Conclusion: If I were to ever use Sustanon in a cycle again, which I doubt since there are less expensive, more stable compounds available, I would use it as intended in BBer amounts. I would do 1000-1500mg once every 8 days. This would allow for it to take immediate effect and with a few additional amps of propionate, you could use it with predictable stability right up until a few days before starting PCT. This dosing regimen, in my opinion, combined with equipoise or nandrolone would be a very productive cycle. Given the choice, I would still stick with enanthate. The injections are usually painless, the stability is high, the half life is fairly long. If you don’t mind EOD injects then prop or phenylprop would also be better choices than Sustanon in my opinion. Especially phenylprop. You would likely have to compound this yourself though as I haven’t seen this ester alone very often except in the case of nandrolone phenylprop (fast-acting deca).

I always knew it was a SUSTStained reaction... But thx for puttin that great post in laymans terms as you made easy sense of it all, it was Good post Voshi!

Could someone elaborate on regurgitation(for some reason my search engine isn't comin up w/sh*t! Thx fellas...

[Buster Brown]

Dead right, sometimes it does boil down to what one can get their hands on... I used sus for my first 2 cycles. But if u have access to test e/c and sus then test e/c would be a better option for BB purposes as the single ester is easier to keep blood levels stable yeah?

So there kinda is a difference... Without being a smartarse, I would love to hear the benifit of a test blend (designed to be administered in TRT patients with less frequent shots ie once a month). Not dissing anyone that uses it but single esters are quite simply a better choice.

If ur going to use Tren for example, would you use ace, enth or hex... Or would you use a blend for some reason?

Tell you what......I first did sus in 1989 and again in 1990. There were no blood test, pct or the internet and from a growing standpoint of view it worked wonders. I feel far too many obsess over the prop and if one wants to split hairs over it then by all means. Your original statement was Sus is a poor and extremely overrated drug. I am def not the poster child for it but if i had a choice between pharm grade sus and ugl tes e ....I am going with sus. I dont think you will anyone on hear claiming it to be anything special.....certainly not from me. I have seen that write up before and if I never used sus perhaps I would most def avoid it but I also feel that training and eating are whats really going to make or break the cycle.

[voshi]

Tell you what......I first did sus in 1989 and again in 1990. There were no blood test, pct or the internet and from a growing standpoint of view it worked wonders. I feel far too many obsess over the prop and if one wants to split hairs over it then by all means. Your original statement was Sus is a poor and extremely overrated drug. I am def not the poster child for it but if i had a choice between pharm grade sus and ugl tes e ....I am going with sus. I dont think you will anyone on hear claiming it to be anything special.....certainly not from me. I have seen that write up before and if I never used sus perhaps I would most def avoid it but I also feel that training and eating are whats really going to make or break the cycle.

I dont disagree with you at all man. I was meaning it is a poor choice over test e, given they are both ugl or both pharma that is. All i was trying to say right from the start, test e is a better choice. Like i said I used sus twice previous, but back then I wasnt exactly as educated with the finer details as I am now. Is sustanon an over rated drug in this sub culture (not comparing pharma with ugl) yes I do think so.