OLD Guys and Cycles / Advice

**chris.baker** · 02-12-2015, 08:32 AM

Been over a decade since a cycle. I'm now 50-years-old. Other than a bum knee, I'm in good shape and doc recently gave me a clean bill of health. Great blood pressure, cholesterol, etc.

Like many older guys, I do suffer from joint pain (note bum knee mentioned above), so I want to avoid anything that causes excess joint pain. I know certain steroids are to be avoided just for this reason. Also need to keep an eye on my blood pressure. Aside from that, anything else us old guys need to watch out for? I'm looking for a bit higher levels than just HRT, of course.

I'd love to introduce HGH into a stack, but it's just not in the budget. Damned Hollywood starts have all the luck.

Oh yeah.... I get a steroid /cortisone (different kind of steroid!) injection in my bum knee once every 6-months. Is this something I should avoid for a while, or will it not effect a cycle? Past experience stacks have contained Test E, Deca , Sustanon 250, Winstrol , and HCG .

Back in the day I used HCG during cycle to keep things working, use Nolvadex on cycle, and Clomid for PCT.

In reading up on some of the newer recommended cycles, I see Arimidex on cycle and Nolvadex for PCT. Is this the new recommended way to go? Is there some advantage to doing it that way rather than the old school way I mentioned? I know science advances, so trying to re-learn some things here.

Thanks all!

**ojm3** · 02-12-2015, 08:39 AM

Nolvadex and Clomid work in synergy together to combat estrogen, while stimulating natural test together.

**XxAndreaxX** · 02-12-2015, 08:56 AM

If you have dry joints, you could still do a test – deca – winstrol cycle. At your age this should be still ok. Water retention will help you with joints. Water from test and deca, should win over drieness of winstrol. Anyways you will see. If you want to go safe, do a test enth only cycle.
I would stay away from hardcore drugs like tren , clen , T3, DNP , IGF-1 and so on. Keep it simple, and with a smart-watch you could monitor many parameters.
Good luck

**kelkel** · 02-12-2015, 09:01 AM

Consider this:

My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful First Cycle

Also consider visiting the HRT forum and posting up your BW. Love to see what your doc considers good when it comes to testosterone levels ....

**NACH3** · 02-12-2015, 09:01 AM

Hey cb,

hCG on cycle - 250iu e3.5d throughout cycle and stop 3 days prior to PCT
AI - Adex(.25mg eod to start)or Exemestane(aromasin at 12.5mg ed - 25mg ed)
If running a 19 nor like Nandrolone or Tren ... DA's(Dopamine Agonists)needed to combat a rise prolactin... If E2 is in check this won't be a problem but good to have on hand...Caber/Prami - caber is taken e3d(codeine based drugs renders it inactive).... Prami is taken ed(.125mg and adjust if needed - take at bed time may cause nausea etc)

PCT - Clomid and Nolvadex as mentioned above work in synergy to raise matty test production
Clomid - 4 wks example 75/50/50/50
Nolva. - 4 to 6 wks. 40/40/20/20 avg test cycle

**NACH3** · 02-12-2015, 09:24 AM

Why would you recommend winny to someone who said they don't want anything to be destructive to his joints?! As winny is known for its joint discomfort! Just my .02!

Originally Posted by XxAndreaxX

If you have dry joints, you could still do a test – deca – winstrol cycle. At your age this should be still ok. Water retention will help you with joints. Water from test and deca, should win over drieness of winstrol. Anyways you will see. If you want to go safe, do a test enth only cycle.
I would stay away from hardcore drugs like tren , clen , T3, DNP , IGF-1 and so on. Keep it simple, and with a smart-watch you could monitor many parameters.
Good luck

**Oki-Des** · 02-12-2015, 09:29 AM

I agree with Nach3 and would stay away from Winstrol . I know XXandreaXX said that the other compounds would override the Winstrol, but why take any chances here? Good luck.

**XxAndreaxX** · 02-12-2015, 09:41 AM

Winstrol is very anabolic , I think the second injectable anabolic after tren with not even a fragmention of sides of tren. I use to say, Winstrol is the pharma version of tren, or tren is the cheap form of winstrol. Results are very similar, although they are 2 completely different AAS.
I read that winstrol attacks joints when E2 are very low. But in that case, you can play with AI, if joints get dry, lower AI.
I told, if you want to play safe, go with test only, but at 50yo, I’d still risk some harder cycle.

**altered genetics** · 02-12-2015, 10:05 AM

I'm no expert but I'd say a mid to high range test stacked with a low dose deca

**tectime** · 02-12-2015, 01:32 PM

Hey dude ! Fifty isn't old anymore ! Haha! After 10 years since last ride so need to just do a simple tes cycle to get back in the game first without freakin yourself out when something goes weird if it does. If your on hrt then bump up the Tes, add some deca , hcg , and an ai after you have strengthened your ligaments and tendons and prepared your body for what you're going to start doing with the added wonderful effects of testosterone .

**Buster Brown** · 02-12-2015, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by XxAndreaxX

Winstrol is very anabolic , I think the second injectable anabolic after tren with not even a fragmention of sides of tren. I use to say, Winstrol is the pharma version of tren, or tren is the cheap form of winstrol. Results are very similar, although they are 2 completely different AAS.
I read that winstrol attacks joints when E2 are very low. But in that case, you can play with AI, if joints get dry, lower AI.
I told, if you want to play safe, go with test only, but at 50yo, I'd still risk some harder cycle.

Don't do this.......winny can be extremely harsh on joints. I am 44 and hadn't cycled in 15 years and when I decided to I ran my first cycle tes only along with a proper pct, hcg , and AI. This would be the direction i would point you in.

**chris.baker** · 02-12-2015, 02:52 PM

I hope I didn't confuse anyone.... To be clear I'm -not- on HRT. I only mentioned it because I know men my age that are on HRT and they are taking test in the 250mg/week range. I'm looking for more than just hormone "replacement" and looking for enhancement. Back in the day I started simple, test e 400mg/week. I've always used HCG while on cycle and have been happy with results.

I used Winstrol back in the day on some cutting cycles, but I don't want to risk anything that may be hard on my joints.... at least until my body gets used to more mass anyway. I was more asking about other issues such as blood pressure and such. If I remember correctly, they all can cause a rise in BP, but wanted to see if there was anything in particular to look out for in that area. Also was wondering if the steroid /cortisone shots for my knee were of any issue. I get the shot once about every 6-months. So if an issue I could skip one or just make sure I cycle in between or whatever.

Also was curious about udates in anti-estrogens and PCT updates as there seems to be some changes since I was into it.

I've never messed with anything Clen , IGF, etc. I used ephedrine back when it was still legal. Just before it was taken off the market I had stopped using it due to the jitters getting to me. I do well with basic stacks, so I stay away from that stuff. I have used HGH before, in my late 40s. I have to say, one of the best stacks/cycles I've ever done. That stuff has great synergy. Just wish it wasn't so expensive! ha!

As far as the doc.... That was years ago I dated her. Seems like a lifetime ago. I still have notes of stuff we went over, though.

Thanks all!

**chris.baker** · 02-12-2015, 02:55 PM

Buster Brown, I'm looking at basics like that. Nothing fancy. I'm familiar with stacks and not a lot seems to have changed in that area. Just wondering about changes in PCT (ie, I've never used Arimidex , and don't recall much discussion of it back in the day) and if there is anything to look out for specifically for us older gentlemen (other than joint issues). I always kept a close eye on my BP when doing a cycle before, so guess just keep at it and go slow back into it.

Thanks guys.

**Oki-Des** · 02-12-2015, 06:12 PM

No worries, some of us were confused before we ever came on this site today! Lol. Unfortunately some were more confused than others! Kelkel is king and he is someone you can always trust on here. I have always seen solid information from BusterBrown and even though Nach3 has not been here as long, I am always impressed with his knowledge and good information. You are in good hands and will soon learn who knows what they are talking about and these three you can trust; always. Although Austinite has not chimed in on this thread, he is also someone with an amazing amount of info. You might be confused by his posts because he actually puts pictures of his mom as his avatar. But when you see her you will know why he has some experience too! Lol.

**tectime** · 02-12-2015, 07:26 PM

You really don't think Dana is his mom do you ? He'd be around 12 or so! Haha!

**Java Man** · 02-12-2015, 09:35 PM

Winstrol bad idea. Deca at around 100mg/wk will keep the joints lubed nicely. If you want to use the deca as a stack to supplement the test I'd go 400-600 instead. 100 won't give you much of anything in the way of gains but it's plenty to alleviate dry joints.

**Java Man** · 02-12-2015, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Consider this:

My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful First Cycle

Also consider visiting the HRT forum and posting up your BW. Love to see what your doc considers good when it comes to testosterone levels....

Me as well. Some (most)? Think just because 350ng is within the low end of most test result scales, it's fine and you don't need trt. Horseshit. If you're not at 600+ you'll feel like crap.

**SidVicious77** · 02-12-2015, 11:53 PM

I'll leave it to the much more experienced members on the board to suggest anabolic plans, etc. But I'd like to sound a warning. If you've been taking regular cortizone shots to the knee, I'd be very careful about increasing poundages in leg exercises even if the steroids lead to a rapid increase in muscle strength.

**Mr.BB** · 02-13-2015, 01:28 AM

Research some tb500 for your knee.

The other questions are answered in the link kelkel provided.

**bobtail** · 02-13-2015, 10:49 AM

Chris, fellow old guy here (58). The first thing I would do is get on a doctor supervised TRT and get your test levels up. At your age it's unlikely you are making much test naturally anyway. Take a 6 months or so to get stable and then start looking at a cycle. You will see some increased gains just from that alone.
Typically, us old guys don't mess with PCT because we are on TRT. Speaking for myself, I just run up some test for 4-6 weeks and then drop back to TRT dosage for a cruise.
I'm kind of shy about Nolva and such because it makes my joints ache and kills my boners. I usually just throw it in when the nips get really sensitive (the seat belt starts to irritate me). And then for only a short period of time.
Maybe throw in an oral if you can tolerate it. I've found most orals seem to jack up my BP but I'm sure that's an individual thing.
This is just my experience and it seems to be working out. Gained almost 20 pounds of lean mass last year.
I'm with you on the HGH! Wish I had the bucks for that. However, I've found the GHRP stuff works pretty good for us older folks. My skin feels really smooth after only a couple of days on it. Worth looking into!

**reporich** · 02-13-2015, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by XxAndreaxX

Winstrol is very anabolic , I think the second injectable anabolic after tren with not even a fragmention of sides of tren. I use to say, Winstrol is the pharma version of tren, or tren is the cheap form of winstrol. Results are very similar, although they are 2 completely different AAS.
I read that winstrol attacks joints when E2 are very low. But in that case, you can play with AI, if joints get dry, lower AI.
I told, if you want to play safe, go with test only, but at 50yo, I’d still risk some harder cycle.

Never listen to this dude.

**chris.baker** · 02-14-2015, 12:20 PM

Lots of good info. Thanks all! I'm reading up on TB500 now. That's a new one for me. Sounds interesting. I'm assuming use it in a stack?

**ScotchGuard02** · 02-14-2015, 01:16 PM

Welcome to the forum. Bobtail makes a good point. Get on TRT and stabilize your endogenous Test level before you start looking at a cycle. At 100mg/wk to 150mg/wk exogenous injections, you'll be surprised at how your body will change. I'm 55 and still look pretty muck like my avatar. I'm probably carrying 2%-3% more body fat. I'm just on TRT (150mg/wk) and nothing else. My muscular striations are not at as prominent when on TRT dose but the overall muscular structure is still there. TRT by itself is pretty awesome. Regarding HGH, I've been on HGH for nearly 7 years non stop. I would sat that HGH is really the miracle drug. HGH totally keeps the belly fat down. Between HGH, TRT and a cycle of T4/Clen /Ket0 for 3 weeks I can go from 13% bf to 9% bf in about 3 weeks. The sense of well being is awesome. The ability to concentrate is awesome. It's the best.

**chris.baker** · 02-17-2015, 01:57 PM

ScothGuard, thanks for the info! Nice to see some older gentlemen here. I was surprised. As far as T4/Clen , I've never used either before. I've been reading up on T3/T4 but I don't have enough down yet to feel confident in it. I'll get there though.

Now HGH.... not sure if this is a kosher forum question so I'll try and word it carefully. Are you getting it from your doc (TRT doc or other) or a UGL? Reason I ask is bc from a doc the stuff is prohibitively expensive! I was wondering (hoping) that a ugl may be cheaper.

As far as TRT, I assume you went to a specialist doctor? There are some in my area, so I may give that a shot.

Thanks!

**lovbyts** · 02-17-2015, 01:59 PM

HGH from UGL = fake.

**chris.baker** · 02-17-2015, 02:47 PM

That's what I was afraid of.

**Buster Brown** · 02-17-2015, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

Welcome to the forum. Bobtail makes a good point. Get on TRT and stabilize your endogenous Test level before you start looking at a cycle. At 100mg/wk to 150mg/wk exogenous injections, you'll be surprised at how your body will change. I'm 55 and still look pretty muck like my avatar. I'm probably carrying 2%-3% more body fat. I'm just on TRT (150mg/wk) and nothing else. My muscular striations are not at as prominent when on TRT dose but the overall muscular structure is still there. TRT by itself is pretty awesome. Regarding HGH, I've been on HGH for nearly 7 years non stop. I would sat that HGH is really the miracle drug. HGH totally keeps the belly fat down. Between HGH, TRT and a cycle of T4/Clen/Ket0 for 3 weeks I can go from 13% bf to 9% bf in about 3 weeks. The sense of well being is awesome. The ability to concentrate is awesome. It's the best.

I agree totally with what Scotch has to say. I am 44 and do trt as well as cycle once or twice a year. I have also gone the hgh path but due to finances I no longer. Trt is fantastic and it is so nice to not see your gains slip away.