Low Test at 26 Only Have Done 2 PH'S Please Help

[GetUpandLift]

I hope you can help.

I'm 26 years old and had my free and total test checked by bloodwork recently and the total test was LOW at 176 on a scale of 250-1100 and the free test was "normal" at 54.3 on a scale of 35.0-155.0.

I have taken two PH's in the past. One was just EPI and the other was EPI and TR3N. On both cycles I took Nolva (AR-R 's) and t-boosters as the post cycle therapy . The EPI and TR3N one was taken June 2014. This is the one that my male parts stopped working with through the cycle. It seemed like as soon as I added Tr3N my stuff down there didn't work as well and then pretty much stopped working towards the end. It wasn't until a couple of weeks in my post cycle therapy that I noticed my stuff start working again.

Here is the example of what I took in June 2014 detailed:

ON Cycle

8 weeks of TR3N 60/60/90/90/90/90/120/120
6 weeks of EPi 30/45/45/45/45/45
Armicare Pro on cycle
Fish Oil 2 times a day
Multi Vitamin w/Joint Supp
5 grams Taurine Preworkout
Creatine HCL 5mg daily
At Week 5 start taking prolactin supp

OFF Cycle

Sup3r Post cycle therapy 6 weeks
Nolva (from AR-R) 4 weeks 20/20/10/10

The only other things I have taken in the past are test boosters from local health stores. I always noticed that if I took anything with the ingredient tribulus in it, I would go extremely quick in bed. I'm not sure if this is normal, but it was like I had ED while on it.

I have felt depressed, tired and wanted to sleep all day long, no motivation, anxious, no drive in the bedroom, and hard to keep it up and get it up. This is pretty much how I have felt the last few years while taking Lexapro, though.. but it seems even worse now. Like college doesn't start for another week and I have been sleeping for 12-14 hours a day and not leaving the house even and feeling really depressed.

The thing I don't get the most is that I have always been able to pack on muscle easily, even naturally. I walk around at 6 foot 3 and weigh 235lbs at a 16% bf. My strength has been pretty good at the gym too it seems. So I just don't get this whole low T thing at my age. I don't notice it too much at the gym, but at home it controls my life and keeps me in the house.

I thought this was all because I have anxiety disorder and got treated for this at the age of 22. Lexapro was supposed to make you feel like this and have no drive. I switched medicines recently (Welbutrin) and it is a stimulant, but I still felt the same. I was at the gym a few weeks ago and an older friend who had to start TRT at the age of 25 told me this is how he felt as well and I should get my free and total test taken at a lab since I did not have insurance.

So is it possible even though I did Nolva after each cycle for 4 weeks, that my low T level is from the Pro or do you think since I have felt like sh*t since I was 17 when all of my anxiety issues started, that maybe I have just always had low T and never knew about it?

I had a much longer response but the forum wouldn't let me post it. So any questions, please feel free to ask me.

I do not currently have insurance since I turned 26 last June and got bumped off of my parent's insurance and I'm in grad school full time so it is more difficult to work.

Thank you!

[Buster Brown]

Your pct was inadequate for sure. You could try doing another one.....this time a real one that would look like this:
Clomid: 100/50/50/50
Nov: 40/40/20/20/20
Wait about 6 weeks to two months after that to see where your t levels are at.

[GetUpandLift]

Your pct was inadequate for sure. You could try doing another one.....this time a real one that would look like this:
Clomid: 100/50/50/50
Nov: 40/40/20/20/20
Wait about 6 weeks to two months after that to see where your t levels are at.

Hi, thank you for the reply. So do you think that even though it was just a Prohormone that it was still as strong as the real stuff? It was Olympus Labs TR3N and EPI.

So I need to do Clomid and Nolva simultaneously at these doses for 4 weeks and then wait 6-8 weeks and get my bloodwork done again? Am I able to just do Clomid and Nolva like that? Will there be any side effects? I asked the guy at Olympus Labs and he said that I wouldn't need anything other than 4 weeks or Nolva OR Clomid. He never mentioned doing them both.

What would be the goal here? Will my testosterone ever be the same? And basically if this doesn't work, then my levels were low to begin with? Finally, if they go up considerably will they stay the same with this method? It has been 6 months since I did that PCT.

[Buster Brown]

If your Ph shut your hpta then you need to do a real pct. "Most" of the compounds (ex dmz) are oral roids that weren't on the banned substance list at the time because they were compounds that never saw the public market.
The idea behind a proper pct and the goal is to recover and get your natural tes levels back up. Clomid and Nov are believed to work synergistically and are a staple used for pct.
What will your outcome be? That depends on how your body responds and bw is the only way of accurately knowing that.

[thephoenix25]

Hi, thank you for the reply. So do you think that even though it was just a Prohormone that it was still as strong as the real stuff? It was Olympus Labs TR3N and EPI.

The PH strenght is not the question here, your natural testosterone productions was shut down by it, in the same way as it would with other steroids .

So I need to do Clomid and Nolva simultaneously at these doses for 4 weeks and then wait 6-8 weeks and get my bloodwork done again?

Yes

Am I able to just do Clomid and Nolva like that?

Yes

Will there be any side effects?

No negative side effects at the doses recommended

I asked the guy at Olympus Labs and he said that I wouldn't need anything other than 4 weeks or Nolva OR Clomid. He never mentioned doing them both.

Clomid and Nolvadex work in synergy with each other, it is best to use both

What would be the goal here? Will my testosterone ever be the same?

Attempt to restart your natural HPTA function. It is not possible to predict how well the function will return, it may be fine or it may remain the same.

And basically if this doesn't work, then my levels were low to begin with?

If it doesn't work, it could be that your levels were low to begin with or it could be that the PH caused changes that aren't reversible.

Finally, if they go up considerably will they stay the same with this method? It has been 6 months since I did that PCT.

If your bloods (6-8 after end of new PCT) show an improvement, it is likely they will stay at or near to that new level.

[kelkel]

Take some time and read the pct threads in this forum. Educate yourself more. Be sure to get proper BW done when the time comes as suggested above. If you can get full spectrum BW done use the first list in the Finding A Doc thread in the HRT Forum. If not, pare it down some but be sure to include Total T, FT, LH, FSH, prolactin, cortisol, E2 and a full thyroid panel if possible. Cover your bases with BW to make sure there are no other underlying issues as well.

[GetUpandLift]

If your Ph shut your hpta then you need to do a real pct. "Most" of the compounds (ex dmz) are oral roids that weren't on the banned substance list at the time because they were compounds that never saw the public market.
The idea behind a proper pct and the goal is to recover and get your natural tes levels back up. Clomid and Nov are believed to work synergistically and are a staple used for pct.
What will your outcome be? That depends on how your body responds and bw is the only way of accurately knowing that.

Thank you for the information. I was just told that Nolva is for estrogen issues and that since I don't have any of those right now, then it would be okay to just do Clomid. Is this incorrect?

Another forum member stated this "By other things I mean your entire hormone system could be shut down. That is an extreme example but the point is to identify what is causing your low test. LH will show up in a test of the hypothalamus, pituitary, testes loop. So no not just a testosterone check. If clomid works your probably good. Again just depends on the cause. No you don't need Nolvadex you don't have an estrogen issue." and the other member said "clomid only, yes"

Also, they said not to get any clomid or nolva that says "For Research Only." The Nolva that I bought from AR-R said this on it. Is it not RX grade? This forum recommends that website which is why I got it.

The PH strenght is not the question here, your natural testosterone productions was shut down by it, in the same way as it would with other steroids .


Yes


Yes


No negative side effects at the doses recommended


Clomid and Nolvadex work in synergy with each other, it is best to use both


Attempt to restart your natural HPTA function. It is not possible to predict how well the function will return, it may be fine or it may remain the same.


If it doesn't work, it could be that your levels were low to begin with or it could be that the PH caused changes that aren't reversible.


If your bloods (6-8 after end of new PCT) show an improvement, it is likely they will stay at or near to that new level.

Thank you for your reply! Please see my message to Buster Brown above as well.

Take some time and read the pct threads in this forum. Educate yourself more. Be sure to get proper BW done when the time comes as suggested above. If you can get full spectrum BW done use the first list in the Finding A Doc thread in the HRT Forum. If not, pare it down some but be sure to include Total T, FT, LH, FSH, prolactin, cortisol, E2 and a full thyroid panel if possible. Cover your bases with BW to make sure there are no other underlying issues as well.

Is there a place online that I could send in my bloodwork done. My sister is a person who draws blood so I could have her take it and send it in. It was quite expensive at this local lab to get the free and total test done by itself and that whole panel that you are talking about would have been over $400 here in the US at the local lab. That's why I went with the $150 option for just the free and total test.

Thank you all for your replies

[Buster Brown]

Most of us on the forum use products from ar-r but if you want to source pharmacy grade then by all means do so. You can look into private Med labs for your bw. I suggest you follow the advice given by kelkel in regards to what bw to get.

[thephoenix25]

Thank you for the information. I was just told that Nolva is for estrogen issues and that since I don't have any of those right now, then it would be okay to just do Clomid. Is this incorrect?

Austinite explains it far more elegantly than I could, have a read.

Taken from the thread
Testosterone Cypionate + HCG + Dbol?

There are 2 major components involved in recovery. Testosterone production and Spermatogenesis.

LH and FSH are both required for the equation. LH is produced by the pituitary and stimulates the Leydig cells to produce testosterone. Once testosterone is in production it works alongside FSH and stimulates sertoli cells to produce sperm. Sperm production is hindered if either of these are unhealthy. They both work in synergy. You need BOTH to be at healthy levels.

clomid has multiple effects. It's an anti-estrogen, so it obviously decreases the estrogenic effects in your body by stimulating the Hypothalamus back to life and sending gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH) to your pituitary, so that LH/FSH can be secreted.

Nolva boosts the effects of clomid because it put clomid into "competition" mode where they both fight for a receptors to bind to. This competitiveness will only occur with the presence of BOTH nolva/clomid, and will inevitably resolve the issue of excess estrogen in the Hypothalamus. This will trigger both LH and FSH to crank UP, as the high estrogen in this cluster is suppressive. This entire scenario is not as effective with only one drug.

Furthermore varying the compounds; Since we know both stimulate LH, what most don't know is that the act is different. clomid boosts the amplitude of LH serum, but has no effect on the frequency. Nolvadex is the complete opposite in that area, where it boosts the actual frequency of LH and has no effect on its amplitude.

You're probably assuming they're identical and overpowering... clomid is a mixed agonist/antagonist for the estradiol receptor. Nolva is also mixed, however.... it is a pure antagonist in the E receptor in breast tissue. There is a reason that clomid is not recommended for gynecomastia reversal, but Nolva is.

Can you recover with just Nolvadex, or just clomid? Well, anything is possible. But why would you take that risk if the combination gives you a much better chance? To save a few bucks and risk your health? clomid when coupled with Nolvadex is clearly the safer choice over using either compound individually.

You might find it advantageous to read some of these threads too
Austinite's Educational Article Database

[Chicagotarsier]

Did you take labs to start your cycle? What are you basing your levels are "low" upon? If you did not..as said above..this might be your normal level.

why people need to spend money on labs and not focus so much on "gains". Gaining is easy...knowing if something is messing up is easier.unless you are not smart enough to spend money on labs.

[kelkel]

In the Educational Articles Database listed above is the "Successful First Cycle" thread. In that is a link to DocD's thread regarding obtaining BW from private labs. Search it up.

[GetUpandLift]

I added rep to all of your profiles. I am going to order some clomid and nolva off of AR-R 's site and I'll post back in 12 weeks what my results are.

Thank you all for the help. I wish I would have gotten BW to begin with, but you live and you learn.

Again, thank you all. I will post back!

[GetUpandLift]

I just placed an order for the following:
Liquid Clomi 70mL 35mg/mL
Liquid Tamox 50mL 20mg/mL

Will this be enough for the 4 weeks at the doses that you guys listed?
These are the correct products too, right?

Also, this is what the member above suggested:
Clomid: 100/50/50/50
Nov: 40/40/20/20/20

Is that the best dosing?

Also, do I just take the one dose of each per a day and does it need to be at the same time every day and what time of day is preferred?

Thank you

[Honkey_Kong]

You said you're on Welbutrin? If I were going to suspect something first, it would be that your depression meds aren't working.

I mean your total test results were low, but your free test was in the low side of the normal range. Any idea what your SHBG level was?

But yeah, you may be suffering from low-test, but as you said you still are putting muscle on, so I'd first suspect it was your psych meds not working before I'd look in to the low test.

[GetUpandLift]

Thanks for the reply. I have felt like this even before I started anxiety medicine. I think the Lexapro I took for over 3.5 years made it all worse, but I got off of it within the last 6 months and started Welbutrin which is supposed to be a stimulant and have minimal side effects. I don't think a medication would make my test levels low though, correct? I do put muscle on pretty much, but I think I just have some pretty good genetics. Maybe I'm wrong?

Also, I don't know what any of my other levels were which is why I just ordered the clomid and nolvadex so I can get another blood test with more included things, rather than just free and total testosterone .

[thephoenix25]

I just placed an order for the following:
Liquid Clomi 70mL 35mg/mL
Liquid Tamox 50mL 20mg/mL

Will this be enough for the 4 weeks at the doses that you guys listed?

Yes

These are the correct products too, right?

Yes

Also, this is what the member above suggested:
Clomid: 100/50/50/50
Nov: 40/40/20/20/20

Is that the best dosing?

It looks to me like there may be a typo here, my thoughts are

Clomid : 100/50/50/50
Nolv : 40/20/20/20

best check with Buster Brown if it was a typo, he is more knowledgeable than I am and may well know something I don't

Also, do I just take the one dose of each per a day and does it need to be at the same time every day and what time of day is preferred?

Each dose of each serms is take all in one go (not split up throughout the day), preferably at the same time each day but no biggie if taken at different times, just try to keep it as regular as possible.

Clomid @ 100mg = 2.85ml of Liquid Clomi
Clomid @ 50mg = 1.42ml of Liquid Clomi

Nolv @ 40mg = 2ml of Liquid Tamox
Nolv @ 20mg = 1ml of Liquid Tamox

Measure your doses with a small syringe and take orally (swallowed).

[GetUpandLift]

Thank you so much for the information! I hope that Buster chimes in so make sure that there is an error in what he posted. I gave you some more rep. Thank you!

[Honkey_Kong]

Thanks for the reply. I have felt like this even before I started anxiety medicine. I think the Lexapro I took for over 3.5 years made it all worse, but I got off of it within the last 6 months and started Welbutrin which is supposed to be a stimulant and have minimal side effects. I don't think a medication would make my test levels low though, correct? I do put muscle on pretty much, but I think I just have some pretty good genetics. Maybe I'm wrong?

Also, I don't know what any of my other levels were which is why I just ordered the clomid and nolvadex so I can get another blood test with more included things, rather than just free and total testosterone.

The thing about low test is that there isn't a set level where they say "hey, you're low on the test, let's give you some more." Because a low level that causes the symptoms of low testosterone for one person, may not cause any symptoms for another person. And most of the "symptoms," could also be caused by something other than low testosterone . And the fact that you're building muscle the way you are right now indicates it might not necessarily be a problem.

But I'd ask muscleink or bonaparte for their opinions. They're actual medical professionals.

Regardless, you probably need more bloodwork done.

[GetUpandLift]

The thing about low test is that there isn't a set level where they say "hey, you're low on the test, let's give you some more." Because a low level that causes the symptoms of low testosterone for one person, may not cause any symptoms for another person. And most of the "symptoms," could also be caused by something other than low testosterone . And the fact that you're building muscle the way you are right now indicates it might not necessarily be a problem.

But I'd ask muscleink or bonaparte for their opinions. They're actual medical professionals.

Regardless, you probably need more bloodwork done.

I will do the clomid and nolva and then get more bloodwork and post back.

Buster Brown can you post back in regards to the dosing? ThePhoneix above said that it might be different dosing for the Nolvadex . Thank you

[GetUpandLift]

Can someone private message Buster and ask him to chime in please? I can't because I don't have enough posts yet. I would greatly appreciate it. I am also curious if there is a lot of sides with these high doses and why I shouldn't taper the Clomid down to 25? Thank you

[hawk14dl]

Take the doses as recommended.

This is a very very common pct,there will be no sides at these doses

[GetUpandLift]

Take the doses as recommended.

This is a very very common pct,there will be no sides at these doses

Thank you. Now I just need Buster to confirm what he said as the other member said it should be different. Also, should I drop down to 25 at the end of Clomid to taper off or no? I heard it is best to just take it 30 minutes before bed (both of them)?

[hawk14dl]

I see what you're asking now, absolutely no harm waiting for bb, he should be on before you get your order in.

Typical pct is 40/40/20/20,from what I've observed. I believe he accidentally added another 20.

No need to taper off the clomid.

I don't think timing matters, I'd suggest taking it the same time every day, or close to it

[GetUpandLift]

I see what you're asking now, absolutely no harm waiting for bb, he should be on before you get your order in.

Typical pct is 40/40/20/20,from what I've observed. I believe he accidentally added another 20.

No need to taper off the clomid.

I don't think timing matters, I'd suggest taking it the same time every day, or close to it

Hey, thank you for this. I was referring to the second week being "40." The guy above said he thinks that the second, third, and fourth week should be 20. So from your understanding I should do 40 both week one and 2 on the tamox?

So I'm going to do each at 4 weeks total and not 5 on the Nolva.

And it is fine to not taper anymore down on the clomid. So end at 50?

Thank you so much!

[hawk14dl]

Correct, 4 week pct, both compounds

Clomid 100/50/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20

Cut it off at the end of week 4, wait 6-8 weeks and get blood work done. Total t, free t at a minimum. Complete blood count and metabolic panel if you can

[GetUpandLift]

Thank you so much hawk14dl! :0

[GetUpandLift]

Okay so I got the clomid and nolva in the mail tonight. I took both of them as suggested at 11PM so that is going to be the time I'm going to take it over the next 4 weeks. Is this okay? Is there a thread that tells you all about taking them, what time, with/without food, etc? I just took it without food and I put the liquid into empty gel capsules so I didn't have to taste the liquid.

Also, I'm starting to look into BW for 10-11 weeks from now..

I checked the place that I did the other one done at "AnyLabsNow" and they have this:
PRE-TESTOSTERONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY PANEL
WHAT IS TESTED FOR IN A PRE-TESTOSTERONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY PANEL?
The Pre-Testosterone Therapy Panel consists of the following tests:

1. Testosterone (Free/Total)
2. Complete Blood Count
3. Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
4. Estradiol
5. Lipid Panel
6. Prostate Specific Antigen (PSA)
7. Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) / Thyroid Hormone (T4) (Free)

It is $300 though.

Here is from the thread that the kelkel suggested:


"Option 1) You don't care about anything but the usual female hormone panel from privatemd labs. Probably best for pre and post cycle bloods since test levels should be normal ranges. All you want is the basics (LH, FSH, Total test, E2, AST/ALT, CBC with Differential/Platelet Count, and metabolic profile) and don't care about an actual test level number. Go to privatemd labs as usual for the female hormone panel, total cost: $59.99 (before online coupon).

Option 2) All you want is actual total test results AND NOTHING ELSE (no E2, no LH, no FSH, etc). Maybe your mid cycle, short on cash, already know the rest of your blood work is good, know how to control estrogen, and whatever other reason I'd pick this. Go to personal labs and get the Low T (Testosterone) Profile, total cost: $48 (before online coupon).

Option 3) You want real testosterone values AND thyroid profile and CBC with Differential/Platelet Count. Probably for some of the same reasons as option 2 but you'd like to include thyroid and CBC with Differential/Platelet Count and its mid-cycle where testosterone values are high. You will NOT get LH, FSH, E2 or metabolic profile with this option. Go to personal labs and get the BASIC Erectile Dysfunction Profile, total cost: $93 (before online coupon).


Option 4) You want everything normally given with female hormone panel from privatemd labs (E2, FSH, LH, CBC with Differential/Platelet Count, AST/ALT, and metabolic profile BUT you ALSO want real test numbers. Again same reasons as 2 & 3, best mid cycle probably. This option WILL NOT give thyroid values. Go to privatemd labs and get the Hormone Panel for Females AND go to personal labs and get the Low T (Testosterone) Profile, total cost: $59.99 + $48 (before online coupons for BOTH).

Option 5) The big daddy of them all, includes EVERYTHING. You're mid-cycle and want a handle on ALL your values actual serum testosterone values, FSH, LH, E2, thyroid profile, CBC with Differential/Platelet Count, ADT/ALT, and Metabolic Profile. Go to privatemd labs and get the Hormone Panel for Females AND go to personal labs and get the BASIC Erectile Dysfunction Profile, total cost: $59.99 + $93 (before online coupons for both)."

I'm assuming I should just do the Option 5 and get the Basic Erectil Dysfunction Profile and Hromone Panel for Females so it covers everything?

Why does it say FEMALES? I'm confused by that part since I'm a MALE. Will they let me do that on the site? Also, will there be any legal issues when I go to show my family doctor the results that I got back and it said I had a FEMALE test done?

Finally, since you go to a local LabCorp and I have several in my area, won't they clearly see that I'm a MALE and see that I ordered a FEMALE blood test and not administer it?


Let me know guys . Thanks!

****EDIT**** I could just do The Hormone Panel for Males, correct? It is a little bit more money, but only by like $20

This is what it includes:
The Hormone Panel for Males contains the following tests:
-Lipid Panel
-Complete Blood Count (CBC) w/ Differential
-Estradiol, Sensitive
-Insulin Growth Factor (IGF-1)
-Comprehensive Metabolic Profile (CMP) (includes eGFR)
-Testosterone (Free) , Serum (Equilibrium Ultrafiltration) With Total Testosterone
-Prostate-Specific Antigen (PSA)
-Thyroid Profile

Significant deviations from the normal range may require further evaluation by your physician.

Note: If total testosterone levels are greater than the cutoff for this test (>1500), results for free testosterone and/or percent free testosterone may not be provided. If total testosterone results are expected to be >1500 it is best that the LC/MS-MS version of this test be ordered.

Includes:
Lipid Panel: Cholesterol, total; high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol; low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol (calculation); triglycerides; very low-density lipoprotein (VLDL) cholesterol (calculation)
Complete Blood Count (CBC) w/ Differential: Hematocrit; hemoglobin; mean corpuscular volume (MCV); mean corpuscular hemoglobin (MCH); mean corpuscular hemoglobin concentration (MCHC); red cell distribution width (RDW); percentage and absolute differential counts; platelet count; red cell count; white blood cell count
Estradiol, Sensitive
IGF-1
Comprehensive Metabolic Profile (CMP) (includes eGFR): A:G ratio; albumin, serum; alkaline phosphatase, serum; ALT (SGPT); AST (SGOT); bilirubin, total; BUN; BUN:creatinine ratio; calcium, serum; carbon dioxide, total; chloride, serum; creatinine, serum; globulin, total; glucose, serum; potassium, serum; protein, total, serum; sodium, serum
Testosterone (Free), Serum With Total
Prostate-Specific Antigen (PSA)
Thyroid Profile: Free Thyroxine Index (FTI or T7);Thyroxine (T4); Thyroid Hormone Binding Ratio (T3 Uptake); Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone (TSH)

Also, why is everyone in that thread concerned about showing their ID, using credit cards, etc?

[hawk14dl]

You could go with option 1. Make sure free t is on the test also.

Realistically all you absolutely need is total t, free t, lh, and fsh.

I believe the female test is simply more sensitive. Takes a more precise measurement. Not 100% on that though.

Likely, people don't want their Id associated with blood tests while they're on cycle. That is documentation that they've broken the law

[davidtheman100]

Olympus labs is a terribly low quality PH distributor. You get what you pay for. I wouldn't have fvcked with them if i were you, but many would suggest not doing PH at all. And the damage is potentially done. For epi, tren etc. you would think by the label, that every PH manufacturer is just using the same couple compounds, and putting different labels on the bottles and selling for different prices. Couldn't be further from the truth. There are just so many lies that are so blatant and ignored.

Wish you a quick, efficient recovery.

[kelkel]

Just check the box that says "male" and you'll be fine.
Good pricing here too:

Online Blood Testing | Discount Blood Tests - DiscountedLabs.com

[GetUpandLift]

You could go with option 1. Make sure free t is on the test also.

Realistically all you absolutely need is total t, free t, lh, and fsh.

I believe the female test is simply more sensitive. Takes a more precise measurement. Not 100% on that though.

Likely, people don't want their Id associated with blood tests while they're on cycle. That is documentation that they've broken the law

I am not on a cycle so I don't have to worry about that then. I am just going to do the hormone panel for males as it is $172.49 plus I have 10% off at private labs.

Olympus labs is a terribly low quality PH distributor. You get what you pay for. I wouldn't have fvcked with them if i were you, but many would suggest not doing PH at all. And the damage is potentially done. For epi, tren etc. you would think by the label, that every PH manufacturer is just using the same couple compounds, and putting different labels on the bottles and selling for different prices. Couldn't be further from the truth. There are just so many lies that are so blatant and ignored.

Wish you a quick, efficient recovery.

I paid a lot of money to do the cycle "right" I didn't realize they were garbage. I was over on the anabolic minds forum and people said that it was a great brand . Thanks though.

Just check the box that says "male" and you'll be fine.
Good pricing here too:

This panel is a little bit more than the one on private labs and it covers:

The Hormone Panel for Males contains the following tests:
-Lipid Panel
-Complete Blood Count (CBC) w/ Differential
-Estradiol, Sensitive
-Insulin Growth Factor (IGF-1)
-Comprehensive Metabolic Profile (CMP) (includes eGFR)
-Testosterone (Free) , Serum (Equilibrium Ultrafiltration) With Total Testosterone
-Prostate-Specific Antigen (PSA)
-Thyroid Profile

Would that one above at private labs be okay then? I have a 10% off coupon code.

[GetUpandLift]

So how am I supposed to be feeling on the Clomid and Nolva? Is there a way that I'm going to know if my levels are going up at all? Here is a prime example of why I think nothing has fixed at all.. Last night I went to bed at 3AM. I woke up at 12PM today so I got 9 hours of sleep. Well it's now 4:30PM and I'm still in bed and having been sleeping all day on and off. So roughly I have gotten over 12 hours of sleep and I'm still tired and unmotivated.

The reason I ask about if the Clomid is working is because a friend from the gym told me he took Rx grade Clomid and within 2 days of taking it, he was about to have sex and then almost right after want to have sex again. He said his drive was insane. He thinks that maybe the Clomid I bought is junk, but I assured him that AR-R is reputable on this website. It is an orange liquid and the nolva looks like blue mouth wash. They both taste terrible with a very strong, burning aftertaste.

Please let me know. Thanks

[GetUpandLift]

Week 2 has officially started and I feel the same exact as when I wasn't taking anything. :/

[GetUpandLift]

Okay guys.... Update.

I am done with a full 30 days of Nolva and Clomid finally.

What's weird is my sex drive has actually been significantly lower while taking those. It seemed like I can barely even get an erection now. It wasn't like that before so it is kind of weird that it seems that this caused my stuff to work even less. I still feel tired, unmotivated, weak, no drive, etc.

Is there any way that I can just wait like a month and go get blood work done after that? Will that be enough time? My insurance will be kicking in, in the middle of March so I can get prescribed something for this around then so I'm hoping I can get bloods done around the middle of March.

Let me know, thanks

[GetUpandLift]

Anyone?