First Cycle - Coming over to the Darkside

**Bill Plates** · 02-10-2015, 08:50 AM

Stats
Height: 6'2
Weight: 205lbs
BF: Under 15% if I had to guess
Age:Turning 25 in 2 months

Ive been lifting for around 5 years. Ive built a natural base bigger than most, and feel I have reached close to genetic potential as far as my upper body is concerned. During this cycle I will be focusing on really bringing up my lower body. I used to play basketball and have had several severe knee injuries, which required: 2 ACL reconstructions and 2 meniscus repairs, all on the same knee, over the last 3.5 years. So as you can imagine this can really effect leg workouts.

Anyways, my cycle will be as SIMPLE as possible, I know many run Clomid and Nolva for pct, but I'll only be running Nolva. I dont feel Clomid is 100% necessary and dont want to subject my body to the side effects of that drug.

Heres the kicker to this cycle, I'm not 100% sure of the legitimacy of the testosterone , I posted another thread about this (located in: Steroid Forum>PICTURES OF STEROIDS >Test Enanthate 300mg) (I'm not allowed to post links).
My final conclusion is I'm going to just dive into the cycle balls deep, I'm pretty sure its legit gear and am not going to spend more money on a labmax kit and UV light + shipping, which comes out to be more expensive than just buying new gear. Only reason I note this is because this is the primary reason I think it might be better to just keep the AI on hand, and not just start it in case the Test-e is bunk. Full disclosure, I have no real evidence to base this off of, but I just "feel" that I am gyno prone.

My test is dosed at 300mg, so I will be taking .83ml, which comes out to 250mg, every 3 days, using a 22g 1.5'' syringe.

Cycle
Week 1-12: Test E 250mg (e3d)
Week 1-14: Arimidex .25 (eod) (OPINIONS ON THIS?)
Week 3-12: HCG 250iu (e3d)
Week 13-14: Nothing
Week 15-19: Nolva 40/40/20/20 (I have enough Nolva to run it an extra week at 20mg, if others suggest to do that).

I havnt taken the "before pictures" yet, so ill be updating this later when I'm home. But for now to give you an idea of my body, I'll just post pics from FB lol.. The second pic has a great filter, I'm not really that cut.

**Buster Brown** · 02-10-2015, 09:01 AM

I would recommended hcg on cycle. This is important to maintain testicular size and will help you recover and keep most of your gains. The same holds true clomid. Nov and clo work together synergistically also do a much better job in helping you recover. Try to not think of it as adding too many compounds but you are adding the ones that will give you the best possible scenario. And yes, adex @ .25 eod.

**Mr.BB** · 02-10-2015, 09:02 AM

Just follow this:

My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful First Cycle

**ojm3** · 02-10-2015, 10:09 AM

^^ Agreed lots of good info here!

**qscgugcsq** · 02-10-2015, 11:40 AM

I like the idea of minimizing the compound but this isnt right...

I do believe than some people can get away with no HCG

but you remove clomid and HCG...
I do think its a money issus in which case I wouldnt use...

Btw you have good base to start.
and.about your knee injury, NEVER EVER DO LEG EXTENSION, this is the worst exercise you possibly could do
.. I never understood why this is not banned in gyms... it puts so much useless stress on the knee...

anyway learn to squat properly by a competente trainer(which is rare...).
some lunge is always a good exercise you shouldnt need anything more than that to reach a decent leg development.

good luck

**Bill Plates** · 02-10-2015, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by qscgugcsq

I like the idea of minimizing the compound but this isnt right...

I do believe than some people can get away with no HCG

but you remove clomid and HCG...
I do think its a money issus in which case I wouldnt use...

Btw you have good base to start.
and.about your knee injury, NEVER EVER DO LEG EXTENSION, this is the worst exercise you possibly could do
.. I never understood why this is not banned in gyms... it puts so much useless stress on the knee...

anyway learn to squat properly by a competente trainer(which is rare...).
some lunge is always a good exercise you shouldnt need anything more than that to reach a decent leg development.

good luck

No, not a money issue. I understand this particular forum believes in running HCG throughout entire cycle. But many other sources disagree. Either way, Im not opposed to running HCG for the entire cycle. Makes sense to me to use it towards the end and bridge into PCT.

And yes, my physical therapist always told me to stay away from leg extensions.

**Buster Brown** · 02-10-2015, 12:21 PM

Were not here to twists any arms. Wish you luck on your cycle.

**NACH3** · 02-10-2015, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Plates

No, not a money issue. I understand this particular forum believes in running HCG throughout entire cycle. But many other sources disagree. Either way, Im not opposed to running HCG for the entire cycle. Makes sense to me to use it towards the end and bridge into PCT.

And yes, my physical therapist always told me to stay away from leg extensions.

If your already shut down(pituitarily and testicularly) since hCG is a Suppressive why would you want to suppress At the end of cycle when your trying to recover!(it's an outdated method)

Furthermore, since pinning exogenous test you will be completely shutdown, so WOULDNT it make more sense to prevent testicular atrophy, and keep your testes functional on cycle, which hCG also mimicks LH production and stimulates Leydig cells, all by taking it during cycle!!

Read Austinites "hCG and why you should use it ON cycle"... Great read! GL!

**Bill Plates** · 02-10-2015, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

Were not here to twists any arms. Wish you luck on your cycle.

well you did, just ordered HCG lol

**Buster Brown** · 02-10-2015, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Plates

well you did, just ordered HCG lol

Wise man.

**Bill Plates** · 02-17-2015, 11:15 AM

I did my second injection yesterday. PIP has been HORRIBLE. I understand Im injecting into virgin muscle, but my ass has been ridiculously sore. Hurts to get into my car, or to sit/lay anywhere. Have to walk like I have something up my ass. Has been 4 days since first injection in my right glute, still extremely sore. No hard lump or discoloration, besides slight redness. Ive read a lot and it could be because who ever made it used too much BA or BB in the solution. Had bad night sweats last night too.

**NACH3** · 02-17-2015, 11:38 AM

Try heating up the bottles(I just put them under my arm for 10min and thst way it's at least your body temp - which could help w/pip... But if the BA content(%) is high thats what's cauding it... Try heating it up a lil... And you may also be pushing the oil to fast... Are you in the upper outer quadrant when injecting... Your sciatic nerve runs down your ass all the way to your foot, but I think the pain would be much worse...Just my .02...

**Bill Plates** · 02-17-2015, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by NACH3

Try heating up the bottles(I just put them under my arm for 10min and thst way it's at least your body temp - which could help w/pip... But if the BA content(%) is high thats what's cauding it... Try heating it up a lil... And you may also be pushing the oil to fast... Are you in the upper outer quadrant when injecting... Your sciatic nerve runs down your ass all the way to your foot, but I think the pain would be much worse...Just my .02...

Something tells me its not the temp or injection technique. Ya im injecting the upper outer quadrant. Im starting to think its the gear. Others have told me test-e shouldnt have this bad of PIP, also I shouldnt be having night sweats, especially this early in the cycle (according to others).

**Bill Plates** · 02-19-2015, 01:07 PM

So im positive the gear was bad, Ive only done 2 injections and am scheduled for my 3rd injection today. I have new gear being sent to me but it wont arrive until saturday or monday. Im going to discontinue use of the arimidex . Should i start Nolvadex until my next pin?

**musclestack** · 02-19-2015, 01:40 PM

How are you positive the gear is bad? Because of the PIP? If so, this is not a good indicator of quality of gear. During my first cycle, I could barely walk right for the first half of the cycle the PIP was so bad. The gear was top notch; I just needed to get used to pinning. People have different reaction to gear; I've never had night sweats from Test E, but that's not to say others have not. The only way to be sure is to get blood work done.

As for you question, no, do not start Nolvadex . If it were me, I would pin one more time with the gear that you have, then start the new gear for your next pin. This is, of course, assuming your gear is bunk, which I'm not convinced it is. And why do you want to discontinue the Arimidex ?

**Bill Plates** · 02-19-2015, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by musclestack

How are you positive the gear is bad? Because of the PIP? If so, this is not a good indicator of quality of gear. During my first cycle, I could barely walk right for the first half of the cycle the PIP was so bad. The gear was top notch; I just needed to get used to pinning. People have different reaction to gear; I've never had night sweats from Test E, but that's not to say others have not. The only way to be sure is to get blood work done.

As for you question, no, do not start Nolvadex. If it were me, I would pin one more time with the gear that you have, then start the new gear for your next pin. This is, of course, assuming your gear is bunk, which I'm not convinced it is. And why do you want to discontinue the Arimidex?

Heres why Ive come to the conclusion its bad gear:
1. The pharmacy listed on the vial dosnt exist.
2. The pip has been SEVERE, had to skip the gym yesterday, painful to walk/sit/lay/basically anything. The injection site from 7 days ago (injection site #1) is still sore, it is just starting to subside. While the other cheek, injection site from 3 days ago is sore/swollen worse than the 1st one ever got. So your saying PIP could be bad enough to have to miss the gym? And this lasted half a cycle for you, around 6 weeks?
3. Ive been told night sweats with test e is abnormal
4. Injection areas are red and warm to the touch.
5.

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**musclestack** · 02-19-2015, 03:43 PM

You could've just explained it to me without the pics lol. Yea, that doesn't look normal. I still suggest blood work to be sure.

I still advise against the nolvadex . Just wait until you get your new gear on Saturday, and continue from there. The most it will do is throw blood levels off a bit since you're not going to be pinning in the recommended time frame; otherwise it should be fine.

**Bill Plates** · 02-19-2015, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by musclestack

You could've just explained it to me without the pics lol. Yea, that doesn't look normal. I still suggest blood work to be sure.

I still advise against the nolvadex. Just wait until you get your new gear on Saturday, and continue from there. The most it will do is throw blood levels off a bit since you're not going to be pinning in the recommended time frame; otherwise it should be fine.

lol just wanted to prove my point. But, ok im not going to take nolva. But you think I should continue Arimidex ? What if the gear was completely bunk, it has to be bad for a male to take an AI when they still have normal test levels. Im thinking Ill just hold off on everything until saturday, ill do 250mg test and .25 arimidex on Sat.