Pharma Assistance for Cutting – Without AAS

[Spider88]

Looking for information or suggestions for something that might help that a bit leaner. I’m aware that there’s no magic pills, and most OTC fat burners are glorified caffeine tablets. I’m also not expecting steroid like results or anything like that. I know that the only supplements to that will mimic AAS, are AAS themselves. A few years ago Clen was popular, but has a horrible rep. Is there something that's equivalent or a better option available today?

Background
I tend to put on weight quite easily, muscle and fat, but it’s comes off very slow. In good shape the last few years, but last bit is very stubborn and can’t shift it. I’ve always carried a bit of extra weight. Especially as a teenager before I was lifting/training.
I had some blood test done last year, just at the end of a very intense training period (MMA camp) and T-Levels were really low. Like old man low. Doctor figured that the stress of the training, fighting, etc temporarily shut me down/affected natural production. So I dialled back the intensity, upped calories for a bit, and made sure my diet was perfect. A few months later levels had recovered. I’ve never done any kind of AAS btw (Doctor asked me that too). And based on the above issue with T levels in the past, I’d imagine that I’m more susceptible to natural production shutting down. So I’ve no interest in going down the AAS route at this stage.
This isn’t an “I don’t like needles, I’d want to orals only” post. I don’t to do take anything that has the potential to impact natural test production.

Current training routine:
2 days strength training
2 days conditioning,
3 days Striking/Wresting/BJJ
Mobility 4-6 days a week

Current Stats:
Age: 29
Weight: 175lbs/79.5kg
BF%: 12%
Bench: 110kg
Squat: 150kg
Dead: 190kg


Any help appreciated.
(also, I'm aware I've posted a "No AAS Thread" in the AAS forum, apologies. I wasn't sure where it was best suited. Mos, feel free to move.

[Back In Black]

It will be best suited in the diet forum really as that is where the 'magic' lies. That said can you post your current diet plan to lose these extra lbs of fat?

What extra cardio do you do?

How low do you want your bodyfat?

[XxAndreaxX]

If you put on muscle and fat at the same time, there’s the magic pill in your genetics. Simply diet, and even in caloric deficit you won’t loose much muscle. Clen only will make in 2 weeks what you could achieve in 2 months naturally. But if you don’t know how to diet, you will gain everything back after clen cycle, something that won’t happen after 2 month diet.
Yes, you’re right, fat burners are basically caffeine.

[musclestack]

If you put on muscle and fat at the same time, there’s the magic pill in your genetics. Simply diet, and even in caloric deficit you won’t loose much muscle. Clen only will make in 2 weeks what you could achieve in 2 months naturally. But if you don’t know how to diet, you will gain everything back after clen cycle, something that won’t happen after 2 month diet.
Yes, you’re right, fat burners are basically caffeine.

You can still gain everything back after a 2 month diet without clen as well.

[Spider88]

It will be best suited in the diet forum really as that is where the 'magic' lies. That said can you post your current diet plan to lose these extra lbs of fat?

What extra cardio do you do?

How low do you want your bodyfat?

Diet at the moment is something like;

Breakfast:Oats and nuts or 3 Eggs scrambled and Avocado. Small coffee
Lunch:Steak and veg/Thai Curry and rice (40g)/Kangaroo Chilli/Beef or Chicken Salad. (these are all homemade meals that I prep in bulk and freeze)
Dinner: Similar to lunch, Slightly bigger portion maybe. A few extra options like Salmon and cauliflower or Heuvos Rancheros.

If I want a snack in the afternoon I'll have some tuna and a coffee.
In the evening after dinner I'll usually have a tea and boiled eggs.
Protein shake post training most days.

Rarely eat junk food or take out.

I think my diet is pretty good. And I've a good grasp of nutrition. This isn't new to me either.
Previously I was 90kg (200lbs) and about 27-30% BF. The above style of clean eating is how I got down to 12%. But I've been stable here for a long time.

In terms of how low I want to go. 8% wound be great but I'd be happy with 10%.

To the other poster. I'm confidant enough than I would be about to maintain it without too much trouble.

[Back In Black]

Ypur diet definitely could do with some work. If you want to snack you'll have a meal but if you don't you'll miss the meal? Usually have eggs, but not always? Oats and nuts have a very different macro makeup to eggs and avocado.

What are the macro's for a typical day for you?

[Spider88]

Ypur diet definitely could do with some work. If you want to snack you'll have a meal but if you don't you'll miss the meal? Usually have eggs, but not always? Oats and nuts have a very different macro makeup to eggs and avocado.

What are the macro's for a typical day for you?

I want saying I skip meals.
A tin of tuna has 100-150 calories. That's not a meal. And two boiled eggs which is about the same.
Obviously oats and eggs have different macros make up. I never said they were supposed to provide the same tv h. If you look at my schedule you'll see I train 7 sessions a week. This isn't training everyday, I have rest days which means some days have two sessions. When I'm training in the morning before work, I'll gave oats for breakfast. Other days, I'll have eggs. When I've a heavy session at lunch, I'll have a rice option or similar for lunch. Or if i'm training in the evening, I'll focus that days carbs around then.
The extra snack (say 150-200 cals) is on double session days.
Apart from that extra snack, intake and macros are they sane daily. Aim for 40:30:30 (P:F:C)

Hope that clarifies it a bit. I can see how my OP looked like it was a bit of s random approach to eating. Apologies.

[Spider88]

Anybody else have any input?

[Back In Black]

A meal is a meal is a meal. It's easier than that way. Unless there is a calories threshold where a snack becomes a meal.

On average, what are the amounts you eat of

Pro
Carbs
Fat

Not the % breakdown, that doesn't mean anything especially without knowing total cals.

[Spider88]

I try to aim for;
200g Protein
150g Carbs
70g Fat

Don't vary a whole lot from that.

[Spider88]

I try to aim for;
200g Protein
150g Carbs
70g Fat

Don't vary a whole lot from that.

2030 cals

Sorry, left that bit out