HCG dose and primary hupogonadism??

**NACH3** · 03-07-2015, 08:35 AM

Hello all,

So Im 23 days in on my prop/NPP(backloading winny for last 4-6 wks)...

After pulling my pre cycle BW in concerns I was hypogonadal(and BW confirms that Im Primary hypogonadal(exhausted all other avenues)...

Just wanted some advice from experienced users and if I should just continue w/250iu 2x a wk/250iu 3x wkly/500iu 2x wkly??? Being primary hypogonadal does this change anything as far as dosing hCG (maybe a lil higher it just stay w/the reg 250iu 2x wkly?? I know some atrophy is still likely to occur, would just like some clarification if hCG can be dosed higher but still not to exceed 1000iu wkly?!

As of now I'm just doing 250iu 2x wkly but did try one wk of 500iu 2x wkly!
These questions are moreso curiosity than anything...

I appreciate all feedback! Thx

**fitguy** · 03-07-2015, 09:24 AM

So are you having atrophy even though you are running hcg at 250iu twice weekly??

**NACH3** · 03-07-2015, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by fitguy

So are you having atrophy even though you are running hcg at 250iu twice weekly??

Yes... So I more curious(as I know you can run up to 500iu 2x wkly) but don't know it's effects on someone w/primary hypogonadism... Is it best to still run a low 250iu dose throughout cycle being that I was already desensitized? Didn't know if it works better w/lower doses or at a higher dose(500iu 2x wkly)?? Does it have an opposite like effect(if primary should dose stay low or higher(500iu 2x wkly)?

**NACH3** · 03-07-2015, 10:03 AM

Bump...

**fitguy** · 03-07-2015, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by NACH3

Yes... So I more curious(as I know you can run up to 500iu 2x wkly) but don't know it's effects on someone w/primary hypogonadism... Is it best to still run a low 250iu dose throughout cycle being that I was already desensitized? Didn't know if it works better w/lower doses or at a higher dose(500iu 2x wkly)??

As far as i know low doses work best but i have no real life experience,what makes you think that you are desinsitized,maybe your hcg is bunk

**NACH3** · 03-07-2015, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by fitguy

As far as i know low doses work best but i have no real life experience,what makes you think that you are desinsitized,maybe your hcg is bunk

Tested it g2g... B/c Thsts whst happens when on cycle - hence hCG on cycle!

What I need to know is - I'm primary so that means my testis will have a harder time recovering...

I know lower doses are more efficient for someone w/out primary hypogonadism but what about a case in where one(me) already have problems recovering testicularly!

Is it still better to dose at 250iu 2 or 3x wkly(rather than 500iu 2x wkly)...

This is merely outta curiosity moreso than having problems...

Thank you for any feedback!

**MrFreshmaker** · 03-07-2015, 03:19 PM

Hey Nach bro.I have a question cause i am really curious: Aren't you on TRT?What's the need of taking HCG ?I thought people on TRT don't need HCG...Stupid questions maybe,but I'm still learning lol..

**austinite** · 03-07-2015, 03:24 PM

NACH, if your gonads are full, you're fine. So use the least amount needed.

**NACH3** · 03-07-2015, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

NACH, if your gonads are full, you're fine. So use the least amount needed.

Thx Aus... Makes sense... But did want to be sure in my case there was any difference in protocol!

**NACH3** · 03-07-2015, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by MrFreshmaker

Hey Nach bro.I have a question cause i am really curious: Aren't you on TRT?What's the need of taking HCG?I thought people on TRT don't need HCG...Stupid questions maybe,but I'm still learning lol..

Hey MrFreshmaker, I'm not on TRT... But I have ruled out everything but adenoma... So if no tumors I will take action as I've already spoken w/lowt.com(but still trying to get it covered)... But when I do go on TRT I will absolutely use test/AI/& hCG for my protocol! It depends on the person or up to them if they need/want hcg in there protocol.... And for hypogonadal males I think hCG/AI/test is the best way to go - IMO!

**MrFreshmaker** · 03-07-2015, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

Hey MrFreshmaker, I'm not on TRT... But I have ruled out everything but adenoma... So if no tumors I will take action as I've already spoken w/lowt.com(but still trying to get it covered)... But when I do go on TRT I will absolutely use test/AI/& hCG for my protocol! It depends on the person or up to them if they need/want hcg in there protocol.... And for hypogonadal males I think hCG/AI/test is the best way to go - IMO!

I'm sorry bro,I thought you're on TRT,my mistake.Thanks for other info though.

**cucu** · 03-07-2015, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

Hey MrFreshmaker, I'm not on TRT... But I have ruled out everything but adenoma... So if no tumors I will take action as I've already spoken w/lowt.com(but still trying to get it covered)... But when I do go on TRT I will absolutely use test/AI/& hCG for my protocol! It depends on the person or up to them if they need/want hcg in there protocol.... And for hypogonadal males I think hCG/AI/test is the best way to go - IMO!

Nach, I believe you are exaggerating your results! Correct me if I am wrong, but you are on the low side of the normal range. That's still normal.
You may want this production to recover so I don't see no reason not to use hCG .

**NACH3** · 03-07-2015, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by cucu

Nach, I believe you are exaggerating your results! Correct me if I am wrong, but you are on the low side of the normal range. That's still normal.
You may want this production to recover so I don't see no reason not to use hCG.

It would be normal if I felt fine... But I have damn near every sign there is of lowT... Bad quality of life, lack of energy, focus, memory, hard time keeping muscle mass, lethargy, insomnia, all after the head trauma(seizures...which has a direct impact on T levels)...

Exaggerating how?? My TT---- is 315(348-1197) LOW- FT-----6.36 (5.00-21.00) they suck... I'm 31 btw.... LH---5.3(1.7-8.6), FSH 5,0-----(1.5-12.4)...This all happened after I experienced severe trauma(flipping my car 6x into a house dying 2x and being brought back!

I also agree that hCG is a must... Sorry but I'm not quite understanding your reply, referring to me exaggerating? Maybe we both misunderstood something... Please share your thoughts cucu...

**cucu** · 03-07-2015, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

It would be normal if I felt fine... But I have damn near every sign there is of lowT... Bad quality of life, lack of energy, focus, memory, hard time keeping muscle mass, lethargy, insomnia, all after the head trauma(seizures...which has a direct impact on T levels)...

Exaggerating how?? My TT---- is 315(348-1197) LOW- FT-----6.36 (5.00-21.00) they suck... I'm 31 btw.... LH---5.3(1.7-8.6), FSH 5,0-----(1.5-12.4)...This all happened after I experienced severe trauma(flipping my car 6x into a house dying 2x and being brought back!

I also agree that hCG is a must... Sorry but I'm not quite understanding your reply, referring to me exaggerating? Maybe we both misunderstood something... Please share your thoughts cucu...

I didn't mean it in a bad way, i meant misintepreting results, not over-reacting. Still, your results could be considered "normal".
Still, one thing off the top of my mind, couldn't it be depression? You would have all of the aforementioned symptoms!

Yet, this is a decision for a trained physician to make and diagnose. And not someone who has financial interest in putting you on replacement!

That's all, just my humble opinion.

**NACH3** · 03-07-2015, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by cucu

I didn't mean it in a bad way, i meant misintepreting results, not over-reacting. Still, your results could be considered "normal".
Still, one thing off the top of my mind, couldn't it be depression? You would have all of the aforementioned symptoms!

Yet, this is a decision for a trained physician to make and diagnose. And not someone who has financial interest in putting you on replacement!

That's all, just my humble opinion.

Thx cucu I always appreciate feedback and criticism(good or bad)

... And though I've had depression or have, it's definitely controlled at this time...

I would be in total agreement if I didn't feel the way I do. With that said, I've been able to go back in time(hypothetically lol)and was able to pin point the time I started to feel the way I do(which was about a few months after me getting out of the coma!

Literally had no idea what was going on but thought it was depression as well... Saw the doc, and have been g2g w/my depression, however the issues thst I stated earlier still remained, therefore decided to get BW done and boom, there it was(TT & FT LOW)... And I also agree that waiting and making sure all such avenues are exhausted ever b4 starting TRT(or anything for life for that matter)!

Thx for your replies... You always have good/valid points that are brought up!

~Nach

**cucu** · 03-07-2015, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

I would be in total agreement if I didn't feel the way I do. With that said, I've been able to go back in time(hypothetically lol)and was able to pin point the time I started to feel the way I do(which was about a few months after me getting out of the coma!

Literally had no idea what was going on but thought it was depression as well... Saw the doc, and have been g2g w/my depression, however the issues thst I stated earlier still remained, therefore decided to get BW done and boom, there it was(TT & FT LOW)... And I also agree that waiting and making sure all such avenues are exhausted ever b4 starting TRT(or anything for life for that matter)!

Well I am saying that here in Europe it is hormonal replacement in hypogonadism is much more strict. Guidelines are generally to try to preserve as long as possible endogenous function (especially if no fertility problems or when fertility is irrelevant).

With such things it is always difficult to diagnose and differentiate. Sometimes there is comorbidity, ie the person has both conditions, or even more. What I believe is along the lines you mentioned, be sure before you commit to life.

In such cases, it is important not to self-diagnose, seek honest opinions and not go to the doctor with a diagnosis on hand. I am sure the physician has to check other things as well, before diagnosing. Two things come to my mind, more may be relevant: fertility parameters and a hormonal challenge (hCG or clomiphene). Plus, make sure that your doctor does not have a financial interest in diagnosing a condition! Things in USA are harsh, money is everything there..

I guess you have at least an answer to your question about hCG, right?

**NACH3** · 03-07-2015, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by cucu

Well I am saying that here in Europe it is hormonal replacement in hypogonadism is much more strict. Guidelines are generally to try to preserve as long as possible endogenous function (especially if no fertility problems or when fertility is irrelevant).

With such things it is always difficult to diagnose and differentiate. Sometimes there is comorbidity, ie the person has both conditions, or even more. What I believe is along the lines you mentioned, be sure before you commit to life.

In such cases, it is important not to self-diagnose, seek honest opinions and not go to the doctor with a diagnosis on hand. I am sure the physician has to check other things as well, before diagnosing. Two things come to my mind, more may be relevant: fertility parameters and a hormonal challenge (hCG or clomiphene). Plus, make sure that your doctor does not have a financial interest in diagnosing a condition! Things in USA are harsh, money is everything there..

I guess you have at least an answer to your question about hCG, right?

Lol... Yeah here in the states the clinics kill you w/$$$ cost! And all the more reason to find a competent, reputable Dr... Who actually specializes in hormones

And I totally agree w/waiting and making the absolute right decision b4 starting any type of hormone therapy for life! Definitely plan on seeing an Endo and trying to get it covered thru Ins.(if that's the case a lil while down the road)...

Yes I sure did get the answer I sought out! Just wanted to be sure of that type of thing(especially when I have no plan to cruise) for when PCT time comes around(yeah it's not for a while but suddenly thought of it today)...Lol thx for bouncing ideas back and forth...

**lovbyts** · 03-07-2015, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by MrFreshmaker

Hey Nach bro.I have a question cause i am really curious: Aren't you on TRT?What's the need of taking HCG?I thought people on TRT don't need HCG...Stupid questions maybe,but I'm still learning lol..

Actually a lot of people on TRT do use HCG . There are only a handful of clinics that have started adding this to the TRT therapy the last few years but more are learning how important it really is. It not only helps with atrophy but also with staying fertile.

Nach3, I would suggest going to a fertility clinic and getting your little swimmers tested. Also look into how much it cost to have a few sample frozen just in case there is a problem later on and you need them. I wish I had thought of that about 15 years ago. I dont think it's to much to have it done.

**NACH3** · 03-07-2015, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Actually a lot of people on TRT do use HCG . There are only a handful of clinics that have started adding this to the TRT therapy the last few years but more are learning how important it really is. It not only helps with atrophy but also with staying fertile.

Nach3, I would suggest going to a fertility clinic and getting your little swimmers tested. Also look into how much it cost to have a few sample frozen just in case there is a problem later on and you need them. I wish I had thought of that about 15 years ago. I dont think it's to much to have it done.

Thx lovb, Ive actually just really started thinking about that recently as I am 31 and was trying to knock up my ex at the time(good thing it didn't happen though)... And would love to have kids!

Ive done those OTC sperm count only checks and I'm under the normal range(but that was also tested by my know it all ex Endocinologist Fiancé) during the middle of a cycle when my LH and FSH are in the tubes! Lol But I will say I do think I have a low count but what I have is good... I'll definitely get it tested and see how much it is!

Thx & a Great idea! And will look into it! I'll keep you updated!

**lovbyts** · 03-07-2015, 11:49 PM

Wow with a little research it's more expensive than I though. There are some other feels also associated to the collection and screening. There are some places less expensive of course, this is just an example.

This may help locating a place if you are interested.

home | A National Directory of Sperm Cryobanks

Storage Services*
Fees are by account regardless of the number of vials stored
Semen Specimens / Patient- monthly	$40
Semen Specimens / Patient- Pre-paid 1 Year	$395
Semen Specimens / Patient- Pre-paid 2 Years	$670
Semen Specimens / Patient- Pre-paid 3 Years	$985
Semen Specimens / Patient- Pre-paid 5 Years	$1340
Semen Specimens/ Patient- Pre-paid 10 years	$2400
Semen Specimen Release (Handling)	$45

**NACH3** · 03-08-2015, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Wow with a little research it's more expensive than I though. There are some other feels also associated to the collection and screening. There are some places less expensive of course, this is just an example.

This may help locating a place if you are interested.

home | A National Directory of Sperm Cryobanks

Storage Services*
Fees are by account regardless of the number of vials stored
Semen Specimens / Patient- monthly	$40
Semen Specimens / Patient- Pre-paid 1 Year	$395
Semen Specimens / Patient- Pre-paid 2 Years	$670
Semen Specimens / Patient- Pre-paid 3 Years	$985
Semen Specimens / Patient- Pre-paid 5 Years	$1340
Semen Specimens/ Patient- Pre-paid 10 years	$2400
Semen Specimen Release (Handling)	$45

Thanks brother! I really appreciate that! I was thinking it would be more lol...

Definitely doable and like you said there's probably other places that would be cheaper...

I'm hittin the sack my man, thanx a always appreciated!