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Thread: Diet while on cycle.

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    treant is offline Junior Member
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    Diet while on cycle.

    Hey, okay I have a question regarding on cycle diet. Is it possible to like eat low-ish calories but a **** tonne of protein, like 500 grams, and lose fat while gaining muscle? Or would that lessen your gains?

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    Quote Originally Posted by treant View Post
    Hey, okay I have a question regarding on cycle diet. Is it possible to like eat low-ish calories but a **** tonne of protein, like 500 grams, and lose fat while gaining muscle? Or would that lessen your gains?
    What did I just read.. No, you need to eat in a caloric surplus in order to gain any amount of muscle, also, no, you cannot burn fat, eat under maintenance and gain muscle. What I suggest is to eat 300-500 above maintenance, eat atleast 1.2g protein per pound of body weight. Throw in a couple days of cardio to keep fat to a minimum, eat clean and keep the intensity up during your workouts. Good luck!

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    treant is offline Junior Member
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    Woah woah woah.. you don't need a caloric surplus in order to gain muscle dude..

    I don't know anything about steroids ... but I know about calories! I have been at a caloric deficit for about a month now and I've gotten stronger and visibly bigger muscles, yet lost about 7 pounds..



    edit:

    I mean just think about nature.. nature promotes strength and survival.. muscles need protein.. give them protein.. they'll grow.. if you have fat to burn for energy.. you'll burn fat.. the body doesn't WANT to lose its muscles so that you can get eaten by a wolf... so if you give it protein.. itl build the muscle, and if at all possible, if you have fat, it'll burn that throughout the day.

    those are completely different operations going on.. you are simplifying it WAYY too much by simply saying that you need a caloric surplus to gain muscle.. you need a caloric surplus to gain WEIGHT.. not MUSCLE.. theres a difference.
    Last edited by treant; 03-15-2015 at 10:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by treant View Post
    Woah woah woah.. you don't need a caloric surplus in order to gain muscle dude..

    I don't know anything about steroids ... but I know about calories! I have been at a caloric deficit for about a month now and I've gotten stronger and visibly bigger muscles, yet lost about 7 pounds..

    edit:

    I mean just think about nature.. nature promotes strength and survival.. muscles need protein.. give them protein.. they'll grow.. if you have fat to burn for energy.. you'll burn fat.. the body doesn't WANT to lose its muscles so that you can get eaten by a wolf... so if you give it protein.. itl build the muscle, and if at all possible, if you have fat, it'll burn that throughout the day.

    those are completely different operations going on.. you are simplifying it WAYY too much by simply saying that you need a caloric surplus to gain muscle.. you need a caloric surplus to gain WEIGHT.. not MUSCLE.. theres a difference.
    You did not gain muscle, ask any of the vets. The body cannot build muscle unless it has more energy (calories) then the body burns. 1: You can still get stronger while cutting. 2: Being leaner actually makes a person look bigger, because of muscle definition. I've been bodybuilding for nearly 7 years (I'm 19) I'm not an expert, but I know what I'm talking about, and that is a FACT. You can Google it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody95
    You did not gain muscle, ask any of the vets. The body cannot build muscle unless it has more energy (calories) then the body burns. 1: You can still get stronger while cutting. 2: Being leaner actually makes a person look bigger, because of muscle definition. I've been bodybuilding for nearly 7 years (I'm 19) I'm not an expert, but I know what I'm talking about, and that is a FACT. You can Google it.
    you've been bodybuilding since 12 years old? Wow I bet you're short!

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    Quote Originally Posted by treant
    Woah woah woah.. you don't need a caloric surplus in order to gain muscle dude..

    I don't know anything about steroids ... but I know about calories! I have been at a caloric deficit for about a month now and I've gotten stronger and visibly bigger muscles, yet lost about 7 pounds..

    edit:

    I mean just think about nature.. nature promotes strength and survival.. muscles need protein.. give them protein.. they'll grow.. if you have fat to burn for energy.. you'll burn fat.. the body doesn't WANT to lose its muscles so that you can get eaten by a wolf... so if you give it protein.. itl build the muscle, and if at all possible, if you have fat, it'll burn that throughout the day.

    those are completely different operations going on.. you are simplifying it WAYY too much by simply saying that you need a caloric surplus to gain muscle.. you need a caloric surplus to gain WEIGHT.. not MUSCLE.. theres a difference.
    If you lost 7lbs of fat then your muscles will look bigger but that doesn't mean they are actually bigger.... Not to say that you haven't gained muscle bc I don't know you or your situation but just saying loosing a couple % of bf will make you look much bigger "at least with your shirt off"
    lovbyts likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cardifffizzle View Post
    you've been bodybuilding since 12 years old? Wow I bet you're short!
    Umm, no, actually I'm 5'9. I said "almost 7 years", still 6 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cardifffizzle View Post
    you've been bodybuilding since 12 years old? Wow I bet you're short!
    Why would i be short? First few years I wasn't serious about it, then as I got older, I got more into it. Working out at a young age doesn't stunt growth.

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    treant is offline Junior Member
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    Gaining muscle and burning fat are two completely different processes in the body.. it doesnt make any sense at all that you would need a caloric surplus to build muscle..

    thats some random bro science that started on the internet and is regurgitated without putting any thought behind it.

    further more.. thats contrary to NATURE. we are made to survive in the wild.. we are made to have lots of food sometimes, and very little food other times.. does it really make sense that we couldnt build muscle while we are running on energy stores yet manage to get some protein? no.. no it does not..

    Edit:

    heres a thought experiment..

    where does the protein go if you are on a caloric deficit? does it get burned as fuel? What about if there's enough fat to be burnt?, and enough protein from the diet being consumed to facilitate the creation of ketones?... where does the rest of the protein go? into the various tissues that need it.. why would the body throw protein away into energy when it has plenty of fat to burn? that just doesnt make any sense man.

    are you telling me that when you work out and tear down your muscle, your body will somehow detect that you are in a caloric defecit and then for some reason it just wont repair the muscles? even if it has protein? it will just let them waste away? think man.. ..

    and here i am telling you i have been on a steep caloric defecit for about a month.. lost weight and yet my bench has gone up like 20 pounds.. or more... and my chest, shoulders and lower arms look bigger.. these are places that dont hold much fat... and im not that fat as it is.. i can see a bit of abs and even intercostals through the fat,..
    Last edited by treant; 03-16-2015 at 12:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody95 View Post
    Umm, no, actually I'm 5'9. I said "almost 7 years", still 6 years.
    I'm only 5'8" but I'm tall in Thailand and Philippines. LOL

    Yeah I think average is considered 5' 11" or 6' anymore. It keeps going up. I curse my dad because he was only 5' 7" or 8" and should have married an Amazon who was 6' 2" or more so I could be closer to 6'

    How does it not make sense? I guess if you are over eating and fat yes you can eat less and build muscle but if you actually calculate your macros and it what you SHOULD be eating for your body type then to it should all make sense.

    Eat more to gain more. You can either gain fat or muscle depending on if you are exercising or not. Eat less you will loose fat and muscle but if you are exercising you will loose more fat than muscle and you can of course tone what you have but that's not the same as actually gaining mass.
    Last edited by lovbyts; 03-16-2015 at 12:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by treant View Post
    heres a thought experiment..

    where does the protein go if you are on a caloric deficit? does it get burned as fuel? What about if there's enough fat to be burnt?, and enough protein from the diet being consumed to facilitate the creation of ketones?... where does the rest of the protein go? into the various tissues that need it.. why would the body throw protein away into energy when it has plenty of fat to burn? that just doesnt make any sense man.

    are you telling me that when you work out and tear down your muscle, your body will somehow detect that you are in a caloric defecit and then for some reason it just wont repair the muscles? even if it has protein? it will just let them waste away? think man.. ..
    Actually the body wouldnt repair at the same rate when its in a deficit. The body would primary use energy to fuel its most functional process like digestion, brain-function etc. And when the body recognizes its in a deficit it will try to save the fat-stores, and use whatever comes into you for fuel first. You you dont "throw away" energy when in a deficit, how would you think that?
    Simply explained, the body doesnt get stronger before everything else is in order. It prioritizes the main function first, then lastly if even after everything else in the body got its fuel it sees that we can build to become stronger/bigger and only then it does.

    Another thing to think about, when you consume only protein, the body USUALLY rebuild slower than if its a mix of carbs and protein. Even if you consume more than your TDEE. Its more energy-effective and easier for the body to fuel on carbs than protein.

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    I know it goes against forum science but on my most recent cut I've lost fat and gained muscle shown by using a bodpod for bf testing.

    Do I think you need 500g protein? No way in hell. Even w steroids that's to much. Unless Ur like 300lb of muscle. Maybe 1.5g of protein per lb of lbm. Not your total weight but lbm. Keep fats high and carbs to a min and you may see the desired effect of losing fat and gaining muscle.

    And for arguments sake of the theory look at all the forum talk of people gaining muscle and losing fat on tren . Obv it's an extremly powerful steroid that does it but it is physically possible. So to say it's impossible to do it on test is closed minded

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    Just to chime in... If you are eating that much protein it's just like any other macro... In excess it will be stored as fat just like c/f... If it's not burnt off by the body first then it will get stored as fat...

    This goes for any macro... If your body can't burn it then it will get stored away until it is burnt off...

    It may help catabolism(but if you take 100% casein at night it's a very slowly digested protein) which helps your body remain in its anabolic state while asleep...
    Last edited by NACH3; 03-16-2015 at 04:38 AM.

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    Ya it's possible, if you are a beginner. But then later one it's so slow that it's not even worth it naturally. It's still more effecient to either cut or bulk.
    On 500mg test it's still not worth it. You can try but you wont be impressed with the result than if you picked a cut/bulk route

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    Okay, cool. Good info luchabratzi, nach3, and equilibriumz


    To everyone else... saying you cant build muscle and lose fat at the same time is like saying you cant take a shit and sneeze at the same time..
    Last edited by treant; 03-16-2015 at 07:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by treant View Post
    Okay, cool. Good info luchabratzi, nach3, and equilibriumz

    To everyone else... saying you cant build muscle and lose fat at the same time is like saying you cant take a shit and sneeze at the same time..
    Ok, I guess the whole fitness industry is a lie, every pro bodybuilder that knows about building muscle is lying. No problem though, we all have to learn somewhere Goodluck! Plus go back to page one and see what lovbyts said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody95 View Post
    Ok, I guess the whole fitness industry is a lie, every pro bodybuilder that knows about building muscle is lying. No problem though, we all have to learn somewhere Goodluck! Plus go back to page one and see what lovbyts said.
    I think what he's reffering to is you can lose bf(hence carb cycling, etc) while maintaining or preserving muscle tissue... BBers maintain(preserve) there precious muscle tissue that they just gained b4 they go on a cut b4 comp, right? So it is possible to lose bf% while preserving muscle tissue(but they're LBM is higher)...

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    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3 View Post

    I think what he's reffering to is you can lose bf(hence carb cycling, etc) while maintaining or preserving muscle tissue... BBers maintain(preserve) there precious muscle tissue that they just gained b4 they go on a cut b4 comp, right? So it is possible to lose bf% while preserving muscle tissue(but they're LBM is higher)...
    Yes it is possible to lose bf while preserving muscle, but what I got out of his questions is that he think you can magical lose fat and build muscle at the same time, which everyone knows is impossible. Now I know you can burn fat to a degree while bulking, am cardio and such. Either that's what he was saying, or me and everyone else read his question wrong, thats all I'm saying, I'm not trying to sound like a jerk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody95 View Post
    Yes it is possible to lose bf while preserving muscle, but what I got out of his questions is that he think you can magical lose fat and build muscle at the same time, which everyone knows is impossible. Now I know you can burn fat to a degree while bulking, am cardio and such. Either that's what he was saying, or me and everyone else read his question wrong, thats all I'm saying, I'm not trying to sound like a jerk.
    No prob... I started getting lost the more I read the thread, too! And I don't think you were being a jerk or anything to that nature... Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and has the right to explain/reply to anything...

    ~Nach

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    I'm 240lbs and I eat about 320g of protein a day 250g of carbs give or take with a cheat meal and about 90g of fat per day I do NOT drink protein drinks or bars I get all of my nutrition from food no real bodybuilder in the competitor world waste their time with protein shakes its all about good food 6 good meals a day food is number 1 I go through about 18-20 pounds of chicken a week about 90 eggs a week and about 10 lbs of steak a week and I eat rice at least 4 times a day and I really like tuna as well I eat 3 of the cans eod. You are what u eat

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    Dang big... Ur monthly food bill must be off the charts! Hahah

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    Quote Originally Posted by treant View Post
    Gaining muscle and burning fat are two completely different processes in the body.. it doesnt make any sense at all that you would need a caloric surplus to build muscle..

    thats some random bro science that started on the internet and is regurgitated without putting any thought behind it.

    further more.. thats contrary to NATURE. we are made to survive in the wild.. we are made to have lots of food sometimes, and very little food other times.. does it really make sense that we couldnt build muscle while we are running on energy stores yet manage to get some protein? no.. no it does not..

    Edit:

    heres a thought experiment..

    where does the protein go if you are on a caloric deficit? does it get burned as fuel? What about if there's enough fat to be burnt?, and enough protein from the diet being consumed to facilitate the creation of ketones?... where does the rest of the protein go? into the various tissues that need it.. why would the body throw protein away into energy when it has plenty of fat to burn? that just doesnt make any sense man.

    are you telling me that when you work out and tear down your muscle, your body will somehow detect that you are in a caloric defecit and then for some reason it just wont repair the muscles? even if it has protein? it will just let them waste away? think man.. ..

    and here i am telling you i have been on a steep caloric defecit for about a month.. lost weight and yet my bench has gone up like 20 pounds.. or more... and my chest, shoulders and lower arms look bigger.. these are places that dont hold much fat... and im not that fat as it is.. i can see a bit of abs and even intercostals through the fat,..
    Here's a thought experiment for you:

    Your BMR is your basal metabolic rate and reflects how many calories your body uses to maintain itself and your biological functions. When you eat in a calorie deficit you are eating less calories than you need to sustain yourself. The calories you eat will go to sustaining these processes not building unnecessary muscle. Protein intake at his point will go towards replacing what's lost from proteolysis. You should pick up some physiology texts and read them bc your understanding of the human body is off.

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    Bigjallday is offline Junior Member
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    Right around 500 a month it really helps to hit the meat when it goes on sale

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody95 View Post
    Ok, I guess the whole fitness industry is a lie, every pro bodybuilder that knows about building muscle is lying. No problem though, we all have to learn somewhere Goodluck! Plus go back to page one and see what lovbyts said.
    I've seen a pro bodybuilder say that the body can build muscle and lose fat at the same time.. So I don't know what your talking about.. actually.. I'll go find it.. I'll post the link of the video...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFKY5sLt8K0
    Last edited by treant; 03-16-2015 at 05:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Docd187123 View Post
    Here's a thought experiment for you:

    Your BMR is your basal metabolic rate and reflects how many calories your body uses to maintain itself and your biological functions. When you eat in a calorie deficit you are eating less calories than you need to sustain yourself. The calories you eat will go to sustaining these processes not building unnecessary muscle. Protein intake at his point will go towards replacing what's lost from proteolysis. You should pick up some physiology texts and read them bc your understanding of the human body is off.
    What you have failed to address is the fat burning. If your body is burning fat to go about its daily activities then its energy needs are covered internally and it's free to use incoming protein to build muscle.. Why would it burn that protein for fuel when it has fat? That's not efficient and we would not have survived as living organisms for 3 billion years if nature was that sloppy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by treant View Post

    What you have failed to address is the fat burning. If your body is burning fat to go about its daily activities then its energy needs are covered internally and it's free to use incoming protein to build muscle.. Why would it burn that protein for fuel when it has fat? That's not efficient and we would not have survived as living organisms for 3 billion years if nature was that sloppy.
    Me along with everyone else told you a FACT. Go ahead, don't believe us and continue doing what you're doing, but I will tell you this. It is a fact that you will end up wasting your time and you will not gain a single oz of muscle. Just being real man. Good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody95 View Post

    Me along with everyone else told you a FACT. Go ahead, don't believe us and continue doing what you're doing, but I will tell you this. It is a fact that you will end up wasting your time and you will not gain a single oz of muscle. Just being real man. Good luck.
    One more thing for you to think about. A caloric deficit and caloric surplus would not be a thing, if we could all burn fat and build muscle at the same time. That right there should tell you something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigjallday View Post
    I'm 240lbs and I eat about 320g of protein a day 250g of carbs give or take with a cheat meal and about 90g of fat per day I do NOT drink protein drinks or bars I get all of my nutrition from food no real bodybuilder in the competitor world waste their time with protein shakes its all about good food 6 good meals a day food is number 1 I go through about 18-20 pounds of chicken a week about 90 eggs a week and about 10 lbs of steak a week and I eat rice at least 4 times a day and I really like tuna as well I eat 3 of the cans eod. You are what u eat
    I can agree with the fact that actual food is better then protein shakes, although most bodybuilders do use protein powder, also, including pros. But hey, good for you for hitting all your macros through real food.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody95 View Post
    Me along with everyone else told you a FACT. Go ahead, don't believe us and continue doing what you're doing, but I will tell you this. It is a fact that you will end up wasting your time and you will not gain a single oz of muscle. Just being real man. Good luck.
    Calling something a fact doesn't make it a fact. You fail to address the actual points I raise.. Which shows me that you don't actually KNOW, you are just REGURGITATING

    Also, I mentioned before that I've lost 7 pounds and gained muscle. My bench, incline, overhead press have all gone up considerably in the month that I've been on a heavy deficit.. You have yet to tackle any of these actual issues...

    Look man, we are trying to LEARN here. If you are unwilling to take anyones experience.. I mean READ through these posts you have AT LEAST 2 cases where people HAVE TRIED IT THEMSELVES and can attest that they have gained muscle AND lost fat at the same time.. Are we all lying? Do you have some sort of problem with learning?!

    Try it yourself man.. I actually put shit to the test rather than just uhh.. copying what a bunch of guys on a forum say.
    Last edited by treant; 03-16-2015 at 05:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by treant View Post
    Hey, okay I have a question regarding on cycle diet. Is it possible to like eat low-ish calories but a **** tonne of protein, like 500 grams, and lose fat while gaining muscle? Or would that lessen your gains?
    Why did you ask this question if you already believe you have your solution.

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    I asked about ON CYCLE.. Everything I have been saying since is OFF cycle.. For instance, the body might behave in ways that I am not used to when on cycle.. It might be that without proper carbs you just dont get the max out of a cycle.. I am concerned with getting the absolute most out of a cycle if I ever do it.

    I already know that you can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time off cycle.. But my question was basically if not eating a lot of carbs would reduce the effectiveness of the cycle..

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    Quote Originally Posted by treant View Post
    What you have failed to address is the fat burning. If your body is burning fat to go about its daily activities then its energy needs are covered internally and it's free to use incoming protein to build muscle.. Why would it burn that protein for fuel when it has fat? That's not efficient and we would not have survived as living organisms for 3 billion years if nature was that sloppy.
    Bc stored fat is tapped into as a last resort almost. Only when what you eat is not enough to sustain you does net fat stores go down. During hypocaloric states it's also much easier for protein to undergo gluconeogenesis so it gets converted to glucose and not all of it will be stored. Also In hypocaloric states muscle loss and catabolism are increased so much of your protein will go towards replacing lost muscle. In the end there is just not enough energy being taken in to create an increase in muscle tissue bc creating it is a calorically expensive process. Finally if you're a gym newb you can lose fat and build muscle almost simultaneously to a slight degree bc of a complete lack of adaptation to training stimulus. Once past the newb stage thouh this isn't the case. Once again, a good textbook will help you understand this better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by treant View Post
    Calling something a fact doesn't make it a fact. You fail to address the actual points I raise.. Which shows me that you don't actually KNOW, you are just REGURGITATING

    Also, I mentioned before that I've lost 7 pounds and gained muscle. My bench, incline, overhead press have all gone up considerably in the month that I've been on a heavy deficit.. You have yet to tackle any of these actual issues...

    Look man, we are trying to LEARN here. If you are unwilling to take anyones experience.. I mean READ through these posts you have AT LEAST 2 cases where people HAVE TRIED IT THEMSELVES and can attest that they have gained muscle AND lost fat at the same time.. Are we all lying? Do you have some sort of problem with learning?!

    Try it yourself man.. I actually put shit to the test rather than just uhh.. copying what a bunch of guys on a forum say.
    Getting stronger during a cut is not indicative of building muscle. It's simply a CNS adaptation. You have absolutely no clue if you gained muscle on your cut without a body composition test done. Bod pod or dexa scan are the good standards. Post up your results from one of these two tests as proof otherwise what you're saying is unsupported opinion and not fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by treant View Post
    Hey, okay I have a question regarding on cycle diet. Is it possible to like eat low-ish calories but a **** tonne of protein, like 500 grams, and lose fat while gaining muscle? Or would that lessen your gains?
    Treant,

    Here's what I don't understand.
    You ask a question but when you get a reply you tell them they are wrong.
    Why ask the question if you know the answer.

    Now before you get angry at me I will say that it is possible to gain some muscle while losing some fat.
    However, this would require either large amounts of gear or starting off fat and undermuscled.
    Your diet would need to be on point also.

    As for your question of would it lessen your gains....
    If you are eating at a deficit or even at maintenance you will definitely lessen your gains.
    You have to eat big to get big.

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    Dude my question was about on cycle. you gotta read all my posts before you dig into me because I don't want to explain it again and again - I already explained the difference between my starting question and the point that I've been arguing.

    As to your point about gear.. Yeah. That makes sense because i mean.. It's best to hedge your bets and just get a lot of food to make the most of it.

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    treant is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docd187123 View Post
    Bc stored fat is tapped into as a last resort almost. Only when what you eat is not enough to sustain you does net fat stores go down. During hypocaloric states it's also much easier for protein to undergo gluconeogenesis so it gets converted to glucose and not all of it will be stored. Also In hypocaloric states muscle loss and catabolism are increased so much of your protein will go towards replacing lost muscle. In the end there is just not enough energy being taken in to create an increase in muscle tissue bc creating it is a calorically expensive process. Finally if you're a gym newb you can lose fat and build muscle almost simultaneously to a slight degree bc of a complete lack of adaptation to training stimulus. Once past the newb stage thouh this isn't the case. Once again, a good textbook will help you understand this better.
    How do you know that none of the protein you intake will make it to the muscles? What if you take in like 500 grams a day and have adequate fat stores for energy? What about in the case of where your body has already switched over to ketones and metabolically prefers to burn your fat?

    I mean there are so many glaring gaps in your explanations where I could be right, and no one addresses them: you just sound off like a broken record without adressing these points.

    The body doesn't use fat as a last resort.. It uses MUSCLE as a last resort.. Fat is like a rechargeable battery. It is our natural battery, and our muscles are the engine.. Why the **** would nature make our engine break down rather than use the batteries first? does that make any sense man?
    Last edited by treant; 03-16-2015 at 07:37 PM.

  38. #38
    Docd187123 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by treant View Post
    How do you know that none of the protein you intake will make it to the muscles? What if you take in like 1000 grams a day and have adequate fat stores for energy? What about in the case of where your body has already switched over to ketones and metabolically prefers to burn your fat?

    I mean there are so many glaring gaps in your explanations where I could be right, and no one addresses them: you just sound off like a broken record without adressing these points.
    I never said no protein will make it to the muscles. Reading comprehension isn't your friend. What I'm saying is it does get to the muscle but is a Rob peter To pay Paul thing as it simply replaced what proteolysis takes away.

    Go ahead and try to eat 1000g of protein. I dare you to try that lol. First off protein is so satiating you'll never be able to eat that much of it. Secondly, 1000g of protein is 4000 calories. Add in your EFAs and youre well over 4300cals. Are you in a calorie deficit at 4300cals + a day? I didn't think so.... Finally, you complain about gaps in my explanations but you haven't rebutted anything I said with anything of substance and had to resort to some silly example of 1000g of protein to try and make your case, which you still have failed to do so.

    If you're running a keto diet and transitioned over to ketones then by raising your protein to a sure levels like in your example above, the body will convert it to glucose via gluconeogenesis. What you don't understand is stored fat is the last thing to be tapped into as a fuel source that's why you need to eat at a calorie deficit to lose weight. What you put in your mouth can and will override what you use from stored body fat. Even if you're in keto, if you cut enough dietary fat out or eat too much protein the body overrides ketosis and goes back to using glucose.

    I'm sounding like a broken record now but a textbook will explain this to you. Your ideas aren't new at all and they've been show to be misleading or incorrect too many times to count. We can play this game all night where you come up with stupid example and try to say "aha I gotcha this time" and get shot down again or you can go to amazon or Barnes and Noble and buy a damn book to read. Choice is yourse.
    Cody95 likes this.

  39. #39
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    QnA with Lyle McDonald

    Q. Most of the questions I get are from people who want to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. Can you explain why it’s so difficult to lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously, if there are any exceptions to the rule, and what you recommend instead?

    A. Well, it’s actually quite easy to gain muscle while losing fat if you are either
    a. a fat beginner
    b. coming back from a layoff and regaining lost muscle
    c. willing to take the right drugs

    Unfortunately, if you’re not in that group it tends to be very difficult to do both to any significant degree at once, claims in the muscle magazines not withstanding. The fundamental issue is that the requirements for optimal muscle growth (in terms of hormones, nutrient intake, and cellular metabolism) are diametrically opposed to what’s optimal for fat loss.

    Simplistically, muscle growth requires a caloric and nutrient surplus and a cellular metabolism oriented towards tissue building; fat loss requires at least a caloric deficit, a certain hormonal profile, and a cellular metabolism oriented towards breakdown. And, outside of one of the three situations mentioned above, you can’t do both.

    So the typical suggestion is to either focus on one or the other and alternate cycles. In general, I think this is good advice. Spend 6-8 weeks in a slight caloric surplus while training your brains out and gain some amount of muscle and fat. Now diet for 6-8 weeks and take the fat off while keeping the muscle. Do this in an alternating fashion over a year or two and you end up bigger and leaner.
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  40. #40
    Docd187123 is offline Banned
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    More Lyle


    .Calories
    Although you asked about macronutrient (carbs, protein, fat), I have to at least mention caloric intake. In the same way that generating fat loss requires the creation of a caloric deficit, gaining any sort of body mass (whether muscle or otherwise) requires a caloric surplus. Many trainees seem to think that they can gain muscle on air and wishful thinking (and maybe creatine) and fail to gain any appreciable muscle mass for the simple fact that they aren’t eating enough calories to support growth.
    How much of a surplus is too complex of a topic for me to address here, I will be doing a future article on the issue. But sufficed to say you need some amount of caloric surplus to support growth. A decent starting place for many is roughly 18 cal/lb (39 cal/kg), representing perhaps a 10-20% increase over maintenance caloric intake. This can be too low for some and too high for others depending on a host of issues. But you’ll have to wait for the future article for more detail.

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