Gyno problems - advice?

**Asteroid88** · 03-25-2015, 03:47 PM

It's been 1.5 years since I finished my last cycle but in the last 6 months my gyno lump that I got whilst on cycle has been growing a lot bigger, it now has spread round the entire nipple and is obvious through a t-shirt.

Blood tests have shown since my cycle my estrogen has been elevated at around 200 pmol/L, which is very high for a male. However my testosterone was at 19 nmol/L which is a little above average, so although my lumps were sore they were not growing any bigger. Like I said it was about 6 months ago when it started growing again and recent bloods have confirmed my test is now at 9nmol/L. My research tells me this is because when testosterone is much lower than estrogen this ratio causes more gyno growth.

So I have three options because I need to stop this lump growing now:

1) Take an AI like Letro even though I had no success with it the first time at 2.5mg daily and suffered heavy sides (don't want to do this again)

2) Do another PCT of clomid to boost my testosterone and resolve the test:estrogen ratio so that the lump will stop growing, but then I risk having my test levels drop down a few months after PCT like I have this time round

3) Start my next AAS cycle and take an AI (adex) throughout to ensure lump doesn't grow bigger, this will give me a few months for my body to be relaxed with plenty of test in it and estrogen suppressed.

Anyone got any suggestions?

**kelkel** · 03-25-2015, 04:28 PM

Estrogen, Prolactin, Progesterone Management + Gynecomastia Prevention & Reversal

PT · 03-25-2015, 04:29 PM

^^^^^exactly

**Ashop** · 03-25-2015, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Estrogen, Prolactin, Progesterone Management + Gynecomastia Prevention & Reversal

What an EXCELLENT article!! Incredible knowledge,,,well written.

**Asteroid88** · 03-25-2015, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

http://hte-management-gynecomastia-p...-reversal.html

Thanks but I really already know everything that is there, it doesn't really answer my question with regards to my possible options as outlined in the OP. Like I said I want to avoid letro because I have already tried it to no success.

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 03-25-2015, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by Asteroid88

Thanks but I really already know everything that is there, it doesn't really answer my question with regards to my possible options as outlined in the OP. Like I said I want to avoid letro because I have already tried it to no success.

Reread the link because it is obvious you don't know everything that is there.

Estrogen isn't caused by your test/estrogen level being off.
High estrogen or high prolactin cause gyno, irregardless of testosterone .
Taking clomid is not going to help your situation.

You said you don't want to use Letro... Did you even read the article? It urges you not to treat your gyno with Letro.

I'll say it again, read the article.

**NACH3** · 03-25-2015, 07:07 PM

You beat me to it....

**EquilibriumZ** · 03-25-2015, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

Reread the link because it is obvious you don't know everything that is there. Estrogen isn't caused by your test/estrogen level being off. High estrogen or high prolactin cause gyno, irregardless of testosterone. Taking clomid is not going to help your situation. You said you don't want to use Letro... Did you even read the article? It urges you not to treat your gyno with Letro. I'll say it again, read the article.

You ve done it again! Fkn detective!

**derekkpapa1** · 03-25-2015, 07:15 PM

What article????
Oh that one
Got it

**Asteroid88** · 03-26-2015, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

Reread the link because it is obvious you don't know everything that is there.

Estrogen isn't caused by your test/estrogen level being off.
High estrogen or high prolactin cause gyno, irregardless of testosterone .
Taking clomid is not going to help your situation.

You said you don't want to use Letro... Did you even read the article? It urges you not to treat your gyno with Letro.

I'll say it again, read the article.

Yes I read it, but it still says you can use Letro and it lost all credibility when it talked about using micrograms instead of milligrams. Everywhere else online says 2.5 milligrams is standard.

The book I got given by my specialist (NHS) literally says in plain English that when the testosterone is a lot lower than estrogen this can cause gyno, so this ratio does have an effect and it makes sense considering my gyno was not getting bigger 6 months when my estrogen was the same as it is now but my test has now halved and boom, gyno is growing again. No offense to the author of that article but I'm going to trust a medical booklet over them.

**kelkel** · 03-26-2015, 07:05 AM

Test being lower than estrogen is not a guaranteed route to gyno. Your level of estrogen is the key factor and it would have to be elevated beyond the norm. If your theory were true every old man walking around today with low T and elevated E due to aging would have gyno.

What "book" are you referring to? Remember, many medical journals still state that steroids won't assist in developing muscle. The article written by Austin is as modern as it gets in this area. You may also want to take a look into Andractim Gel in conjunction with serms. Crashing your E with Letro is old school and unhealthy.

Gynecomastia â€“ evaluation and current treatment options

**Asteroid88** · 03-26-2015, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Test being lower than estrogen is not a guaranteed route to gyno. Your level of estrogen is the key factor and it would have to be elevated beyond the norm. If your theory were true every old man walking around today with low T and elevated E due to aging would have gyno.

What "book" are you referring to? Remember, many medical journals still state that steroids won't assist in developing muscle. The article written by Austin is as modern as it gets in this area. You may also want to take a look into Andractim Gel in conjunction with serms. Crashing your E with Letro is old school and unhealthy.

Older men do not have 200 pmol/L estrogen and 9 nmol/L testosterone as in my case... obviously the ratio has to be affected drastically.

I can't see anywhere online recommending micrograms instead of 2.5mg for letro?

**kelkel** · 03-26-2015, 07:24 AM

The average out of shape 55 yr old man has higher estrogen than a woman that age. Pretty sad. Good luck with your situation Asteroid. I would seriously consider following Austins protocol and I would not cycle until the issue is corrected.

**magic32** · 03-26-2015, 10:36 AM

I would also be greatly disturbed, though I don't know that it would lose all credibility, by a work in which the dosage measures were incorrectly cited.

In my studies on the topic, and I've researched it in great detail while preparing a comprehensive (similar to my work on DNP below...please read it) research article though I've been unable to get back to it, I've found that gyno is more complex than, but also encompasses both an imbalance in the Test:Estro ratio and elevated estro (any and all versions of it) levels. Clinically, in a preponderance of studies, gyno (regardless of cause or idiopathy) has been and is most effectively treated with Tamoxifen /Nolvadex (which almost always reverses or satisfactorily reduces it). However, in cases wherein Nolva was insufficient, clinicians (doctors, researchers, etc.) have had great success with secondary therapies of both combination treatments (most notably Nolva and Letro) and successive/consecutive treatments in which a course of Nolva is followed by one of Letro, and then Nolva again. I'd have to check my home hard drive for actual therapeutic dosing protocols, as expressed earlier it's been a while since my emersion into it, but PubMed (The US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health) can provide some readily available studies and results.

DNP work: The Whole Truth About DNP - Steroid.com

**Asteroid88** · 03-26-2015, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by magic32

I would also be greatly disturbed, though I don't know that it would lose all credibility, by a work in which the dosage measures were incorrectly cited.

In my studies on the topic, and I've researched it in great detail while preparing a comprehensive (similar to my work on DNP below...please read it) research article though I've been unable to get back to it, I've found that gyno is more complex than, but also encompasses both an imbalance in the Test:Estro ratio and elevated estro (any and all versions of it) levels. Clinically, in a preponderance of studies, gyno (regardless of cause or idiopathy) has been and is most effectively treated with Tamoxifen /Nolvadex (which almost always reverses or satisfactorily reduces it). However, in cases wherein Nolva was insufficient, clinicians (doctors, researchers, etc.) have had great success with secondary therapies of both combination treatments (most notably Nolva and Letro) and successive/consecutive treatments in which a course of Nolva is followed by one of Letro, and then Nolva again. I'd have to check my home hard drive for actual therapeutic dosing protocols, as expressed earlier it's been a while since my emersion into it, but PubMed (The US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health) can provide some readily available studies and results.

DNP work:

Thanks - very interesting. May PM you for more info.

How will a nolva/letro treatment help long-term though? Once I come off nolva/letro won't my estrogen just become elevated again? It's been at around 205pmol/L for 1.5 year, no idea how to get it down permanently or if it's even possible.