Has anyone personaly found a way of combating the old tren nightsweats? Im 4 weeks into my cycle and they seem to be getting worse. Really disturbs my sleep too. Not pleasent..
Any ideas? My doage of tren is 450mg a week.
Member
Has anyone personaly found a way of combating the old tren nightsweats? Im 4 weeks into my cycle and they seem to be getting worse. Really disturbs my sleep too. Not pleasent..
Any ideas? My doage of tren is 450mg a week.
Associate Member
no blanket with fan blasted at me and i rotate from couch to bed all night. not so bad only a couple flips of a pillow.
Member
I always wear a t shirt to bed now but im not sure if its making me sweat more? Theres no supplements you can take to stop it or anything then?
DUNAMIS ~ AR-Elite Hall of Famer~
No carbs at night seems to help me a little
source checks- 200 posts and 6 month membership min. entirely within my discretionPT is a fictional character and all posts are for entertainment purposes only.
Member
I tried that last night, didnt have carbs from 5pm and i sweated even worse so that didnt help!!
Associate Member
yea f that i eat all kinds of carbs before bed. maybe you are running things a little different whats you test dose and ai. I'm useing test cyp 125mg ever 3rd day and tren a 80mg a day aromasin 12.5 ed. low test is supposed to reduce sides.Originally Posted by bradhore
Member
800mg tri test
450mg tren enan
4iu hgh
Insulin 10iu post workout
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
Sleep on a beach towel then change it when needed.
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MONITOR
This is what i used to do ^^ with a fan on full no covers. Are you using a AI ??
Member
No AI's until pct for me
MONITOR
Why ?? That's really not good for you brad.
Member
im going to running hcg next week on week 4. twice a week shots
Banned
800mg of test and 450mg of tren with no AI is a recipe for man boobs.
I would use an AI and caber if I were you.
Member
Some choose not to use AI's through cycle at all, only after. Ive always been fine doing them after.
MONITOR
Brad ppl who do this have no concern for there health and/or do not know what there doing you may seem ok on the out side but blood work will tell a different story.
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
Some are foolish. If you are judging your need for an AI based solely on gyno you're making a serious mistake. Uncontrolled estrogen can lead to stroke, cardio vascular disease, lipid problems, erectile dysfunction (just because it didn't happen one cycle doesn't mean it won't in the future) and many more.
It's science Brad. I highly recommend you use an AI.
-*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-
Member
Yeah i know. Ive been a member of this site for 9 years so i do know all this. I read reports of users not getting as good a gains when on AI's THROUGH their cycle, whether its myth i dont know, or whether it depends on person to person i don't know, but i stopped taking them THROUGH my cycle because of what i was reading. I know your health is more important than your gains, and i probably should take atleast clomid
Banned
People hold more water without an AI so they THINK they are getting more gains.
They are not building more muscle.
The fact that you said you should take at least clomid leads me to believe that you have no idea how to run a proper cycle.
Clomid is not an AI.
MONITOR
Not clomid brad a AI. Have a read at this link if you have not already.
http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...nce-guide.html
Brad this nonsense about not gaining on cycle if you use a AI is just that nonsense.
Last edited by clarky.; 03-28-2015 at 01:58 PM.
Member
Clomid, arimidex, nolvadex??
Anabolic Member
No AI = water gains
Good for ego, bad for health
Member
I thought you were refering to anti estrogens lol not ai's
Member
Clomid and hcg which i mentioned are ai's
Member
When i said about running hcg from next week, whats wrong with that??
Anabolic Member
No. AI are arimidex, aromasin and letro.
MONITOR
Ancillary Reference Guide. This part of the link i posted for you from jummy please read it.
The purpose of this reference guide is to go over the different ancillaries that may be required during an anabolic steroid cycle or in post cycle therapy and discuss what they do, how they work, how they may best be utilized and give an idea of some general dosing guidelines. I hope you find it helpful!
Aromatase Inhibitor’s (ai’s):
Aromatase Inhibitors do exactly what their name states. They inhibit the aromatase enzyme. The aromatase enzyme is the enzyme responsible for the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. Any testosterone based steroids aromatize to estrogen. In order to avoid excess estrogen an aromatase inhibitor should be run on cycle with these types of compound. The goal when running an ai on cycle is to manage estrogen levels so that you still get the positive benefits of estrogen without the undesirable side effects of excess estrogen. I recommend keeping estrogen levels within the clinically normal range even while on cycle. Blood work is essential to determine proper ai dosage no matter which ai you choose.
There are 2 types of ai’s. Type 1 and type 2. Type 1 ai’s include Exemestane (aka Aromasin /Stane). These are often referring to as suicidal ai’s. They permanently render the aromatase enzyme inactive. Now do not be confuse, this does not mean you take them once and all aromatase is inactive for ever and no more need be take. The body is continually producing the aromatase enzyme so Exemestane needs to be continually taken while on cycle. Type 2 ai’s include Anastrozole (Arimidex /Dex) and Letrozole (Femara/Letro). These ai’s temporarily bind to the aromatase enzyme, essentially blocking it, not allowing testosterone to bind to it and be aromatized to estrogen. These ai’s also need to be continuously taken while on cycle.
Let’s briefly take a look at each ai, its effectiveness and common dosages for a moderate testosterone based steroid cycle.
Exemestane (Aromasin,Stane), although often touted as weaker than letrozole but stronger than anastrozole, is probably in all likelihood, the mildest or most forgiving ai. It is commonly dosed at 25 mgs/ tab or ml of liquid. It has a fairly safe profile having at the very least no negative impact on igf and possibly increasing it slightly. It has no adverse impact on lipid (cholesterol) profiles as well. While Exemestane is very effective at lowering estrogen it is very difficult to “crush” or lower estrogen too much while taking this ai. These factors make this ai a very desirable choice for on cycle use. For a common testosterone cycle, say between 500-600mgs/week the starting dosage for this ai would be from 12.5mg-25mg/day.
Anastrozole (Arimidex,Dex) is a fairly potent ai. It is commonly dosed at 1mg/tab or ml of liquid. It, like exemestane, also has a relatively safe profile and may have either no adverse effect, or a slightly adverse effect on igf levels and lipid profiles if dosed properly. It is easier to lower estrogen levels too much while taking anastrozole than it is when taking exemestane. Anastrozole is a more potent ai than many people give it credit for. It also has a longer active life than exemstane so daily dosing is not required. Every other day use is fine with anastrozole. For a common testosterone cycle say between 500-600mgs/week the staring dosage for this ai would be from .25mg-.5 mg Every Other Day.
Letrozole (Femara, Letro)is by far the most potent ai available. It is most commonly dosed at 2.5mg/tab or ml of liquid. It has the largest negative impact on both igf and lipid profiles of any ai (probably due to its strength). It can be very easy to lower estrogen levels too much when taking letrozole. For this reason I recommend only those with serious estrogen/aromatization issues of those doing very heavy cycles consider using letrozole to manage estrogen levels. Often I see people recommend letrozole for the treatment of Gyno, I do NOT recommend this In order for an ai to effectively treat gyno your estrogen levels must essentially be reduced to zero. While letrozole is very capable of this, some estrogen is essential for basic bodily function, health and wellbeing. For a common testosterone cycle say between 500-600mg/week the staring dosage for this ai would be approximately .25mg every other day or every third day. Be warned even at these low doses it is fairly easy to lower estrogen too much while using letrozole. Use it with caution if it is the ai you choose.
To sum it up an ai should be used on cycle, to manage estrogen levels, keeping them within the clinically normal range. Their use should start upon the start of your cycle and stop when you begin your Post cycle Therapy protocol. Blood work is essential to determine proper ai dosage for you while on your cycle. Ai’s are not meant to treat or reverse gyno, simply manage estrogen levels.
HCG:
HCG, or Human Chorionic Gonadotropin , is a Luteinizing Hormone Mimetic. HCG is dosed in iu’s and comes in various sizes most common being a 5000iu kit. Luteinizing Hormone (LH) is a hormone produced by the Pituitary that Stimulate the leydig cells causing the production of testosterone. HCG mimics this LH, stimulating the leydig cells causing the production of testosterone. This takes place in the testes.
HCG has been used in many different ways over the years by steroid users, many of them incorrect. The proper use of HCG in my opinion is using it while on cycle, to maintain testicular function, allowing for an easier recovery of testicular function post cycle. There are added benefits of HCG as well such as backfilling hormonal pathways. When shutdown, hormones such as dhea and pregnenolone are not produced. More and more it has been discovered these are not simply testosterone precursors but provide function and benefit on their own. HCG allows for the production and thus the benefits these hormones have to offer. As we know steroids shut down the HPTA (hypo pituitary testicular axis) thus testicular function ceases. We then use Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) to try to re-induce the function of the HPTA as quickly as possible. The use of HCG ON CYCLE maintains this testicular function allowing for a smoother, faster easier recovery of natural testicular function. It should not be taken only at the end of the cycle in large doses; it should not be taken on large doses at all as it may cause desensitization of the leydig cells. It also should not be taken during PCT as it is Suppressive of pituitary function of LH production. The proper method for HCG use is to use it on cycle, starting at the beginning of your cycle and running it up to 3 days before you start your PCT. Proper dosage should be 250iu’s inject 2x/week (ie: mon/thurs). HCG is often overlooked as an ancillary but thankfully is becoming more and more widely used and accepted as a standard part of a steroid cycle protocol. Rightfully so.
SERMs:
SERMs, or Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators, bind selectively to estrogen receptors in various locations in the body. They illicit 2 effects that are primarily of interest to the steroid user; first they block the estrogen receptor in breast tissue preventing or potentially treating the condition known as Gyno. Second they bind to estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus and pituitary blocking the suppressive effect of estrogen on the production of LH (negative feedback) and to some degree FSH, inducing the production of testosterone and in some cases spermatogenesis. Now we will be looking at 4 different serms and how effective they are at the aforementioned effects. You will find certain serms are best suited for inducing or preventing certain effects.
Tamoxifen (Nolva,Tamox) is the first serm we will look at. It comes in a standard dosage of 20mg tabs (10 are also avail) and 20mg liquid. This is also the most diverse serm. Offering effectiveness at both gyno prevention and treatment as well as the induction of natural testosterone production.
Tamoxifen has a strong binding affinity to the estrogen receptor in breast tissue, second only to Raloxifene (to follow) when it comes to this effect. This makes Tamoxifen an excellent choice when it comes to either gyno prevention or treatment. It can be run on cycle alongside an ai should gyno symptoms start to occur to prevent/treat gyno on cycle. It can also be run standalone off cycle to treat gyno.
On cycle dosage of Tamoxifen for gyno treatment would be 20mg/day. Much has been made of running Tamoxifen with an type 2 ai and that it reduces the effectiveness of the ai. The fact is that while it lowers serum blood levels of type 2 ai’s, it does not reduce the ai’s effectiveness and is of no clinical significance. Also much is made of running Tamoxifen on cycle with 19 nor steroids such as tren and deca and the upregulation or the progesterone receptor. The fact is if you are controlling your estrogen this is of little significance. Also after 2 weeks of Tamoxifen use the progesterone receptor actually is down regulated! So the 2 aforementioned ideologies need to be dismissed and Tamoxifen can be run with a type 2 ai with no adjustment in ai dosage and also alongside a 19 nor steroid without adverse effect.
Off cycle for gyno treatment one would dose Tamoxifen as follows: 40mg/day for the first week, 20mg/day every week after that. It should be mentioned when using a serm to treat gyno results do not come overnight. You should plan on at least 8 weeks of treatment and quite often treatment is required longer than that.
Tomoxifen in PCT. Tamoxifen is a very effective serm for the induction of natural testosterone production. It has become a PCT staple for this very reason. The combination of Tamoxifen and Clomiphene (to follow) has become the standard in post cycle recovery of natural testosterone production. Tamoxifen dosage in PCT should be as follows: 40mg/day the first week, 20mg/day each week thereafter. I say thereafter as normal PCT runs 4 weeks, however when I run a 19nor steroid such as Tren or Deca I add an additional 2 weeks of Tamoxifen at 20mg/day for a total of 6 weeks of Tamoxifen use. This is due to the extremely suppressive nature of 19-nor steroids. I’ve found the added 2 weeks of Tamoxifne greatly improves y recovery of testicular function.I am also of the opinion that Tamoxifen should be combined with Clomiphene for the most effective PCT protocol I will get into the Clomiphene dosage for PCT next.
Clomiphene (Clomid) comes in standard dosage of 50mg/tab and 70mg/ml liquid. Clomiphene shines in 3 particular areas. One is in PCT (combined with Tamoxifen) for recovery of natural testosterone production. The second is in the area of male fertility, and the third is in the area of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) in males. While Clomiphene does bind to the estrogen receptor in breast tissue the binding affinity is not near that of Tamoxifen, Raloxifene or even Toremifene (to follow). This makes it the least desirable SERM for gyno prevention of treatment and in my opinion it should not be used for that purpose.
Let’s look at Clomiphene use and dosages in PCT. When using tabs the dosage protocol would be as follows: 100mgs/day the first week, 50mgs/day the next 3 weeks. When using liquid the dosage protocol would be 70mg(2ml)/day the first week, 35mgd(1ml)/day the next 3 weeks. For best effect it should be combined with Tamoxifen at the dosages mentioned above. I will summarize the Tamoxifen/Clomiphene PCT protocol at the end of the SERM section.
Clomid has proven particularly effective in the area of male fertility. This is likely due to its secondary effect on FSH and spermatogenesis in addition to its primary effect on LH. Dosage for this purpose would be 50mg/day.
More and more clomid is being accepted as a replacement for Hormone Replacement Therapy. The dosages for this are anywhere from 25-50mgs/day to 25-50mgs every 3 days.
Toremifene (Fareston, Torem) is a serm very similar in effects to Tamoxifen. It is equally effective at stimulating the production of natural testosterone and slight less effective at binding to the estrogen receptor in breast tissue when it comes to gyno prevention and treatment. It comes in dosages of 60mgs/tab and 60mg/ml in liquid. It does seem to have a slightly better safety profile than Tamoxifen but this difference is very slight. Why isn’t it used more in PCT might be the natural question. Well it is a newer drug and quite frankly there isn’t nearly as much in the way of studies or case studies using it for this purpose. Perhaps down the road there will be but as of now there isn’t. Based on the above information I would not recommend using Toremifene for gyno prevention or treatment. It may however be used as part of a successful PCT protocol.
Dosage of toremifene for PCT would be as follows: 120mgs/day the first week followed by 60mgs/day the next 4 weeks. While many claim great results running Toremifene on its own in PCT I would be more comfortable combining it with Clomiphene at dosages of 100mg/day the first week and 50mgs/day the next 3 weeks. If I were running a 19 nor (tren of deca) I would do the same with Toremifene as I do with Tamoxifen. I would extend the PCT 2 weeks and take just Toremifene those 2 weeks at 60mg/day.
Raloxifene (Evista/Ralox) is a SERm with an extremely high binding affinity for the estrogen receptor in breast tissue. It comes in dosages of 60mg tabs and 60mg/ml liquid. While it is extremely effective in the prevention and treatment of gyno it is the least effective SERM at stimulating the production of natural testosterone. For this reason I recommend it not be used in PCT but be the SERM of choice for Gyno treatment or prevention.
For Gyno prevention or treatment on cycle this should be dosed at 60mg/day for the first week and at 30mg/day every week after that. It can be run alongside an ai and is extremely effective at gyno prevention. For off cycle Gyno treatment I would suggest dosing it at 120mg/day for the first week and 60mg/day every week after. Again Gyno treatment is a slow process. Expect to run this for at least 2 months possibly more. If anything short of surgery will treat your Gyno – Raloxifene is it.
So to sum up serms, their applications, and my recommended combinations.
PCT in order of preference in my opinion would be as follows:
1-Tamoxifen 40/20/20/20 + Clomphene 100/50/50/50. If running post 19 nor Tamoxifen 40/20/20/20/20/20 + Clomiphene 100/50/50/50. (dosage in mgs by day per week)
2-Toremifene 120/60/60/60 + Clomiphene 100/50/50/50. If running post 19 nor Toremifene 120/60/60/60/60/60/60 + Clomiphene 100/50/50/50
On cycle Gyno Treatment in order of Preference:
1- Raloxifene 60mg/day the first week and 30mg/day every week after up to pct.
2- Tamoxifen 20mg/day up to pct
Off cycle Gyno Treatment in order of preference:
1-Raloxifene 120mg/day first week, 60mg/day every week after (expect at least 8 weeks +)
2-Tamoxifen 40mg/day the first week, 20mg/day every week after (expect at least 8 weeks +)
Last edited by clarky.; 03-28-2015 at 02:10 PM.
Member
How many mg of adex would you recommend a day then? 1mg?
Like i said i'll be taking 500iu a week of hcg just to keep the natty test production flowing, but i know that wont combat possible gyno.
VET
I'm not tryin to bust balls here... But you said you've been a member for 9 yrs... But your knowkedge is sorely lacking! You've could have gotten much better gains doing this right(proper diet and training will dictate your success with the proper AI/HCG/PCT etc)... How many cycles have you run?
You've clearly missed some significant details regarding what an AI DA SERMs are! Why wouldn't you run an AI/HCG from the start and have a DA on hand, for mid cycle BW)... I would bet your Estro and prolac are/will be high on no time, of not already!
Your holding lots of water/& some bf in that avi(maybe it's old)... But it's clear you have a lack of knowledge when it comes to cycling safely and successfully....
Please read over the Ancillary ref Guide that clarky posted and really listen to the advice you've gotten!
Last edited by NACH3; 03-28-2015 at 02:27 PM.
Member
Ive ran about 9 cycles. Yes i started at a young age, and yes i didnt cycle properly. Starting my hcg next week as i couldnt get hold of it, and YES you'll probably say i shouldn't have started it without it, but thats easier said than done when your waiting on one thing.
1mg a day adex or 12.5mg a day aromasin??
MONITOR
No no not 1mg a day you will crash your e2 very fast with that amount. Your on wk 4 so i would suggest .5 eod for one wk then go down to .25 eod. The only way to get your e2 in range is blood work it will keep you safe.
Member
Oh, and pictures dont really do me justice tbh. And no, nobody is perfect or as huge or lean as they want to be, hence why we do the juice right? You may critisice my avatar but yours doesn't really say alot either to be honest
Junior Member
Regardless of the picture this is all stuff you definitely should know if you've been a member here for 9 years man. The fellas are only trying to give you helpful advice. I'm curious, have you ever had your bloodwork done? In the recent past? I know many guys who have serious health problems from following bad advice they read somewhere, you can find someone on line to say anything you want and they'll swear it's true. Doesn't mean it's accurate or that they care about your health. The guys here are trying to offer advice, from knowledgeable, experienced minds.
Member
Na never had bloodworm done. What do you mean i can find someone to talk to??
Member
Bloodwork i meant lol
VET
The a-dex dose should be as clarky stated .25mg eod/or .5 eod... BW will confirm if you need to adjust or not! And get a DA like caber or Prami for your prolac!
BTW - wasn't really critizing you more or less sayin that you'd be a lot more successful w/your cycles if you did them properly...
Snd why do we not go by results in the mirror??? That's what everyone goes by! And 9 cycles sh*t you got me by about 6 buddy! And hey I agree Im not anywhere near my potential w/juice(this is my first go w/a 19nor... And went from 175(primed from 180)-191 currently just hit the 6 wk mark and my pic was about 1.5-2 wks ago... i know when I have another 5 cycles undrr my belt I will hope to be further along... And what's the point of all these cycles... B/c your diet and training are lacking - check out the diet section for some help... It's helped me stay consistant
But I'm really not here to bust balls but rather help someone who's clueless... And this is why you always have everything b4 you start!
Best of luck... I hope everything works itself out
Last edited by NACH3; 03-28-2015 at 05:25 PM. Reason: It's 6 cycles he's got me by... And I primed from 180 to 175 b4 cycle
VET
^^^ this also shows your lack or should I say ignorance for cycling! It's the internal damage that BW shows not by judging how you feel....
HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
Nine cycles and no blood work? I'll see you in the TRT section soon Brad. Jeez, don't just "think" of your health and longevity, do something about it.
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Junior Member
I mean someone at some point gave you some awful advice and you apparently have followed it. Want some good advice? Stop your cycle immediately, do a proper PCT and get some bloodwork done in a couple months to see where you're at. Use that time to educate yourself to protect your long term health, and get your money's worth from your gear.
Member
So your saying i should go to the doctor and say 'hi, im on the juice, i need my bloodwork done' i think not. Once they know that, it stays on the system. Not sure how it works for you guys but i live in England.
MONITOR
Can you get to or are you close to manchester ??
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