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Over the years, I have heard both use and don't use Nolvadex during your cycle.
What does everybody currently think?
I usually use Nolvadex and Clomid PCT.
I usually use Arimidex during my cycle at .25 EOD. But sometimes feel that it isn't
working enough.
I wonder if Nolvadex is holding back somebody's gains during a cycle.
Yup over the years people have gotten a lot smarter by running blood test and finding out what works best. No Nolvadex on cycle. Arimedex as you noted.
Ive heard both about holding back gains. I may a bit and yes if you crush your E2 for sure.
What Lov said regarding blood work to check levels is on point. It's the only way to find exactly what works for you. That said, people tend to think any sensitivity in their nips is the alarm bell for gyno and that's not accurate. Your hormones are in flux so some sensitivity is to be expected. When it comes to nolva on cycle I know many people who have had gyno issues who run it during their cycle's. Normally only up until BW then it's discontinued when all is well.
When it comes to holding back gains it can reduce IGF-1 levels slightly. IMHO nothing that you'd ever notice when on cycle.
Here I found this on this forum... It's like splitting hairs really(except if you do indeed crash your E! Can Lower IGF-1 levels(AIs/SERMs).... But gains nada in my experience...
can nolva inhibit size gain on cycle - Anabolic Steroids - Steroid ...
can nolva inhibit size gain on cycle
I'm running a cycle now and my strength and libido is through the roof but my size hasn't increased much. I'm eating clean and taking in the right amount of caloires.
could it be the nolva I'm running(20mg ed)?
current cycle start of week 5:
trenA 100 ed
testp 100ed
masteron e 200 mg x 2ew
dbol 50 mg ed
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10-18-2010, 03:46 PM #2 MACHINE5150's Avatar MACHINE5150 MACHINE5150 is offline
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no size gains after 5 weeks of dbol is pretty rough.. Nolva will limit the water retention, but you should still have gained atleast 5-10lbs on this cycle so far.. how long since your last cycle?
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10-18-2010, 04:02 PM #3 littleriverman littleriverman is offline
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today is the start of week 5 so really 4 weeks. My last cycle ended in march. this time around I heard so much good thing about tren so I really didn't log down my measurements from day one because I was expecting to just "blow up" in size.
my strength is through the roof and my libido is in over drive so somethings working
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10-19-2010, 03:09 AM #4 Bonaparte's Avatar Bonaparte Bonaparte is offline
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Nolva won't make much difference, if any.
It sounds like you just aren't eating enough.
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10-19-2010, 06:36 AM #5 BigIce BigIce is offline
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Nolva is a SERM, not an AI, so how can it combat water retention, sorry Im just not getting that.
Also, if Nolva does not lower the estro but only prevents it from acting on the breast tissue, how can it hinder gains, I would really like a proper explanation on this.
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10-19-2010, 07:21 AM #6 D7M's Avatar D7M D7M is offline
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Quote Originally Posted by Bonaparte View Post
Nolva won't make much difference, if any.
It sounds like you just aren't eating enough.
^Agreed as usual.
Quote Originally Posted by BigIce View Post
Nolva is a SERM, not an AI, so how can it combat water retention, sorry Im just not getting that.
^Exactly!
Quote Originally Posted by BigIce View Post
Also, if Nolva does not lower the estro but only prevents it from acting on the breast tissue, how can it hinder gains, I would really like a proper explanation on this.
Nolva is known to lower IGF levels. Not really something BBs want.
I'd taken nolva throughout many cycles, and never had a problem gaining.
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10-19-2010, 07:23 AM #7 sigman roid's Avatar sigman roid sigman roid is offline
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Quote Originally Posted by D7M View Post
^Agreed as usual.
^Exactly!
Nolva is known to lower IGF levels. Not really something BBs want.
I'd taken nolva throughout many cycles, and never had a problem gaining.
Same here never had a problem gaining
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10-19-2010, 07:24 AM #8 sigman roid's Avatar sigman roid sigman roid is offline
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Quote Originally Posted by BigIce View Post
Nolva is a SERM, not an AI, so how can it combat water retention, sorry Im just not getting that.
100% agree.
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10-19-2010, 08:16 AM #9 cro's Avatar cro cro is offline
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i thought 10 mg was plenty of nolva on cycle r u gyno prone why 20 mg every day
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10-19-2010, 08:21 AM #10 HawaiianPride.'s Avatar HawaiianPride. HawaiianPride. is offline
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Quote Originally Posted by littleriverman View Post
I'm running a cycle now and my strength and libido is through the roof but my size hasn't increased much. I'm eating clean and taking in the right amount of caloires.
could it be the nolva I'm running(20mg ed)?
current cycle start of week 5:
trenA 100 ed
testp 100ed
masteron e 200 mg x 2ew
dbol 50 mg ed
Not much else to add here the guys have it covered. But I'd like to say again, SERMS or AI's in conjunction with anabolic support at reasonable and preventative dosages will not hinder gains. Whoever made this wonderful myth up should be hit in the head with a dumbbell. It has been blown way out of proportion over the last few years.
Your cycle is stacked, so even if you completely shut down your estrogen I'd be willing to bet a pretty dime you'd still make gains. I'd start questioning the quality of your gear and or all other variables before pointing hands at the Nolva.
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10-19-2010, 08:36 AM #11 V8Assassin's Avatar V8Assassin V8Assassin is offline
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I can tell you this from personal experience, and not some distant past, if you aren't eating enough you will not gain. I have been bowhunting for the last two weeks and making eating a secondary priority and it is showing bigger than crazy. I actually went down five pounds as of last night! EAT, EAT, and EAT some more!!!
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10-19-2010, 09:55 AM #12 Swifto's Avatar Swifto Swifto is offline
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SERMs and AI's will lower IGF levels.
Short-term aromatase inhibition: effects on glucose metabolism and serum leptin levels in young and elderly men
B Lapauw, G T'Sjoen, A Mahmoud, J M Kaufman and J B Ruige
Department of Endocrinology, 9K12 I.E., Ghent University Hospital, De Pintelaan 185, 9000 Ghent, Belgium
(Correspondence should be addressed to B Lapauw; Email: [email protected])
Objective: To assess and compare the effects of short-term aromatase inhibition on glucose metabolism, lipid profile, and adipocytokine levels in young and elderly men.
Design and methods: Ten elderly and nine young healthy men were randomized to receive letrozole 2.5 mg daily or placebo for 28 days in a crossover design.
Results: Both in young and elderly men, active treatment significantly increased serum testosterone (+128 and +99%, respectively) and decreased estradiol levels (–41 and –62%, respectively). Fasting glucose and insulin levels decreased in young men after active intervention (–7 and –37%, respectively) compared with placebo. Leptin levels fell markedly in both age groups (–24 and –25%, respectively), while adiponectin levels were not affected by the intervention. Lipid profile was slightly impaired in both groups, with increasing low density lipoprotein-cholesterol levels (+14%) in the younger age group and 10% lower levels of APOA1 in the elderly. A decline in IGF1 levels (–15%) was observed in the younger age group. No changes in weight or body mass index were observed in either young or old men.
Conclusions: Short-term aromatase inhibition appears to affect glucose metabolism in young men, and lipid metabolism, including leptin secretion, in young and elderly men. Furthermore, the short period of exposure suggests that these changes might be mediated by direct effects of sex steroids rather than by changes in body composition.
15% isnt enough to negate loss of gains IMHO. Nor do we take "2.5mg/ED Letro" on cycle.
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10-19-2010, 09:57 AM #13 Swifto's Avatar Swifto Swifto is offline
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But to answer your question.
No, not in my EXPERT (ha ha) opinion.
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10-19-2010, 10:05 AM #14 littleriverman littleriverman is offline
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it can't be that I'm not eating to much because I have to actually stuff myself because I'm always hungry. on a typical day my meal plan looks like this but changes but not by much:
meal 1: 8 egg whites, 1 cup of oats, 18 gram protein shake a few bananans
meal 2. 2 can of tuna. 3 slice of whole wheat bread
meal3: 8 oz turkey breast sandwhich with some
^^^ when people start saying this I try to always ask, did you touch or play with your nips before cycle? How do you know what the difference is now? STOP playing with your nipples! lolQuote:
Originally Posted by kelkel
Play with someone's of the opposite sex.Quote:
Originally Posted by lovbyts
out dated info: use serm on cycleQuote:
Originally Posted by Money
uptodate info and new drugs: Use an AI on cycle as its more optimal.
Like, Like :)Quote:
Originally Posted by kelkel
Ok, if Nolva is known to lower IGF levels, of course I don’t want that.
It could be my imagination but in the past, when I have taken Nolva on a cycle,
my chest seems to not be as sensitive. But once again, it could be my imagination
but I also don’t seem to be getting the gains that I normally would.
I don’t water bloating and that is why I am not taking Dbol on this cycle. I want
cuts, stamina and strength. I will be taking Test. Enan and Equipois starting the end
of this week. The beginning of this week, I started taking Arimadex .25 EOD.
In the past, when I was taking Arimadex .25 EOD, I was still getting the sore chest.
Therefore, I added the Nolva for 20mg. EOD or ED depending on the soreness it seemed
to go down a bit. This was usually 6 weeks in just as the Testosterone and Equipois or Deca were starting to really kick in.
This string seems to go back and forth of using Nolva helps and it doesn’t matter.
As for touching my nips before and during a cycle. Yes, I have because I know from past
experience what happens and I want to see if I can feel the difference.
If you don't actually feel a lump then don't add nolv. Some soreness is expected and can come and go. I don't encourage constant touching your nips either but if you do actually feel a lump then nov is an effective tool to use on cycle to do away with a gyno flare up.
it boils down to blocking an estrogen receptor or slowing the conversion of test to estrogen. I've ran it. I've ran AI's, and I've ran nothing. Either way my nipples were always sensitive but never had a lump. Although without either I was a very emotional guy :)
What about tamoxifen?
It isn't that I am always touching my chest but somebody bumps into me, I touch something, my shirt rubbing against my chest, it all starts to hurt sometimes. Sometimes, I think that I feel a lump. Is this just in my head or is there something there. When I am not cycling, I don't feel the lump.
I guess what it comes down to is does Nolvadex actually hinder our gains if taken during the cycle?
what about it?Quote:
Originally Posted by jolter604
no it's not going to hinder gains but it's known to reduce the effect of your ai. Why not just raise your adex?Quote:
Originally Posted by Money
Raise my adex on an EOD basis or take .25/day instead?
bump it to .5 mg eodQuote:
Originally Posted by Money
Tamoxifen IS nolvadex.Quote:
Originally Posted by jolter604
I meant raloxifene
^^works on the same receptor as nolva
But is it less likely to hinder gains? And lower igf?
I have ran nolvadex on cycle a few times due to gyno flare ups and never noticed a decrease in gains.Quote:
Originally Posted by jolter604
Should I start bumping it now before my cycle or wait until I start whichQuote:
Originally Posted by Bio-Active
is tomorrow night?
Start it at .25mgs EOD, and take on pin day or day after...Quote:
Originally Posted by Money
Then pull bloods mid way through to see if it does need bumping(or adjusting)...