Non-Aromatizable Cycle?

**TrevHoff** · 04-29-2015, 09:57 PM

Am I gyno sensitive? I would HAVE to answer yes after just having 2nd gyno surgery 4 weeks ago. Notably had been pubescent gyno; I am looking at planning my next cycle and avoid gyno at all cost. My previous cycles I don't believe contributed to my gyno but suppose is possible (Recent gyno surgery pulled out nearly 30 grams in each nipple!). Notably, I have always run AI's with my previous cycles.

To avoid gyno I want to stick to non-aromatizable compounds:

Anavar
Winstrol
Masteron
Primobolan
Trenbolone
Turinabol
Anadrol - UNDERSTANDING THIS IS A HUGE EXCEPTION TO NON-AROMATIZING?

Plan on running TRT level of Test - Maybe around 125mg/wk - Pharma grade with being low test.

With the mentioned compounds, looking at suggestions of stacks and mg's (including AI's) I can potentially look at doing to put on more size. I am currently 6', 206lbs, Approx 18.5% body fat. Body fat will come down prior to cycle. Diet is dialed in.

**Mr.Anderson** · 04-29-2015, 10:53 PM

All at the same time?

**TrevHoff** · 04-29-2015, 11:00 PM

Heck no! That is just a list of Non-Aromatizable compounds available. Wondering some good potential stacks with them in mind.

**scotty51312** · 04-30-2015, 09:36 AM

If i was that sensitive I wouldn't cycle. Thats just me though. What kind of AI did you run? Did you keep going after you developed gyno? Have you read about gyno reversal protocols?

**TrevHoff** · 04-30-2015, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by scotty51312

If i was that sensitive I wouldn't cycle. Thats just me though. What kind of AI did you run? Did you keep going after you developed gyno? Have you read about gyno reversal protocols?

As stated my gyno was from puberty, also stated I don't believe AAS contributed to my gyno as I only started cycling last year with running A-dex on all previous cycles.

Gyno reversal protocols in my situation only a scalpel was going to fix me. Outside of this fully aware of reversal protocols. I want to avoid it period.

**Nick147** · 04-30-2015, 10:00 PM

Anadrol may interfere with estrogen metabolism, it requires AI.

**TrevHoff** · 05-01-2015, 12:31 PM

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**TrevHoff** · 05-01-2015, 03:10 PM

Yes, as much as I would like to try Anadrol is out of the equation.

Was thinking of running the following for 12 weeks:

TRT @ 125mg/wk
Mast @ 150mg/eod
Tren @ 100mg/eod

Not certain what Al's to run with such stack with test being so low and 2 others being non-aromatizing. Past I had Always run A-dex @ 1mg EOD.

Thinking of maybe throwing in Var to this as well, maybe last 6 weeks.

Thoughts?

**TrevHoff** · 05-04-2015, 08:25 PM

Figured I bump this to hopefully get some more opinions...

**gold43** · 05-04-2015, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by TrevHoff

Yes, as much as I would like to try Anadrol is out of the equation.

Was thinking of running the following for 12 weeks:

TRT @ 125mg/wk
Mast @ 150mg/eod
Tren @ 100mg/eod

Not certain what Al's to run with such stack with test being so low and 2 others being non-aromatizing. Past I had Always run A-dex @ 1mg EOD.

Thinking of maybe throwing in Var to this as well, maybe last 6 weeks.

Thoughts?

Drop the Mast, you don't need it.
Keep the Test and Tren like it is.
You probably won't need an AI, but have one on hand. Also, I would use a DA like caber at .25mg twice a week to be safe. Are you saying your on TRT??
Less is always better with good diet and training. If you feel good after 2 weeks, you could push that Tren a little higher. Tren Ace I assume. And its optimal to pin Tren ED.

**TrevHoff** · 05-04-2015, 11:56 PM

Thanks man, appreciate the weigh-in on this one.

Will commit to:

TRT @ 125mg/wk
Tren @ 100mg/eod

Yes, diagnosed low test a few years back PRIOR to touching any AAS. Which was a slippery slope for me leading to AAS. First it was hCG mono-therapy for 2 years, but would like to move to Cyp. I have changed doctors so we will see what he says tomorrow! Doctors are pretty clueless when it comes to low test here in Canada, so hoping for the best. I had the test levels of a 90+ year old and a number of doctors felt that was acceptable, before I found a doctor that understood. Felt great on it to be honest, as I digress...

Indeed, it will be Tren Ace. I have access to UG Parabolon but not sure what the diff is and keep it easier on par with whats out there and go with Tren Ace. So ED pin would start looking at 50mg/ED? After 2 weeks if feeling alright, bump up to say 75mg/ED?

Unfortunately, I don't have access to any DA but will take a look around to see my options. So no AI really necessary? I can have a list avail, but think I will have Aromasin on hand if need be.

Diet is dialed in at the moment.

**gold43** · 05-05-2015, 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by TrevHoff

Thanks man, appreciate the weigh-in on this one.

Will commit to:

TRT @ 125mg/wk
Tren @ 100mg/eod

Yes, diagnosed low test a few years back PRIOR to touching any AAS. Which was a slippery slope for me leading to AAS. First it was hCG mono-therapy for 2 years, but would like to move to Cyp. I have changed doctors so we will see what he says tomorrow! Doctors are pretty clueless when it comes to low test here in Canada, so hoping for the best. I had the test levels of a 90+ year old and a number of doctors felt that was acceptable, before I found a doctor that understood. Felt great on it to be honest, as I digress...

Indeed, it will be Tren Ace. I have access to UG Parabolon but not sure what the diff is and keep it easier on par with whats out there and go with Tren Ace. So ED pin would start looking at 50mg/ED? After 2 weeks if feeling alright, bump up to say 75mg/ED?

Unfortunately, I don't have access to any DA but will take a look around to see my options. So no AI really necessary? I can have a list avail, but think I will have Aromasin on hand if need be.

Diet is dialed in at the moment.

Aromas in is fine. Doubt you will need it. Find some Caber for ur DA.
That's a good Blast n Cruise Cycle.
Keep TRT Test and just Blast Tren A for 8 weeks and stop Tren for 8 weeks. Repeat.

**jimmyinkedup** · 05-05-2015, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by TrevHoff

Thanks man, appreciate the weigh-in on this one.

Will commit to:

TRT @ 125mg/wk
Tren @ 100mg/eod

Yes, diagnosed low test a few years back PRIOR to touching any AAS. Which was a slippery slope for me leading to AAS. First it was hCG mono-therapy for 2 years, but would like to move to Cyp. I have changed doctors so we will see what he says tomorrow! Doctors are pretty clueless when it comes to low test here in Canada, so hoping for the best. I had the test levels of a 90+ year old and a number of doctors felt that was acceptable, before I found a doctor that understood. Felt great on it to be honest, as I digress...

Indeed, it will be Tren Ace. I have access to UG Parabolon but not sure what the diff is and keep it easier on par with whats out there and go with Tren Ace. So ED pin would start looking at 50mg/ED? After 2 weeks if feeling alright, bump up to say 75mg/ED?

Unfortunately, I don't have access to any DA but will take a look around to see my options. So no AI really necessary? I can have a list avail, but think I will have Aromasin on hand if need be.

Diet is dialed in at the moment.

The only difference between parabolin and tren ace is the ester attached to the tren. Id stick with the tren ace. You should be able to get prami from arr as your dopamine agonist pretty easily. I pin tren a EOD just fine and have found no difference between ed and eod injections. Some do seem to prefer ed inject, for me, with no difference in results or sides it just doesnt make sense for me personally to pin 2x more than needed.

**NACH3** · 05-05-2015, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

The only difference between parabolin and tren ace is the ester attached to the tren. Id stick with the tren ace. You should be able to get prami from arr as your dopamine agonist pretty easily. I pin tren a EOD just fine and have found no difference between ed and eod injections. Some do seem to prefer ed inject, for me, with no difference in results or sides it just doesnt make sense for me personally to pin 2x more than needed.

Jimmy what about above when op said you won't need an AI? Imo you always need an AI especially on a blast(and he's sensitive to test to Estro conversion) may not need the norm of 25mg Ed w/Stane or Dex at .25eod seems like overkill... DA for sure... Opinion on AI Jimmy?

Edit** saw op said gave it on hand but I'd start it low? 12.5 Ed or 6.25?

**TrevHoff** · 05-05-2015, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

The only difference between parabolin and tren ace is the ester attached to the tren. Id stick with the tren ace. You should be able to get prami from arr as your dopamine agonist pretty easily. I pin tren a EOD just fine and have found no difference between ed and eod injections. Some do seem to prefer ed inject, for me, with no difference in results or sides it just doesnt make sense for me personally to pin 2x more than needed.

Being a Canadian boy, not sure if I can get Prami into the country (controlled substance etc)? . Questionin how else I would get a hold of it, but will refuse to do such cycle without it on hand.

Yes, would LOVE to hear your input on AI with this cycle.

**NACH3** · 05-05-2015, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by TrevHoff

Being a Canadian boy, not sure if I can get Prami into the country (controlled substance etc)? . Questionin how else I would get a hold of it, but will refuse to do such cycle without it on hand.

Yes, would LOVE to hear your input on AI with this cycle.

Site sponsor ar-r )...I believe ships internationally for your research purposes) I'm wanting to hear about the AI as well... I think you'll need ine but not at any normal dose during the cycle for sure... I think you'll need some form of AI just b/c of your increased sensitivity.... Very Interesting!!

**Bonaparte** · 05-05-2015, 08:23 AM

If you're looking to avoid gyno, steer clear of Tren as well. That was the first drug that caused me gyno issues. The prolactin and progesterone it increases can cause gyno even with just a bit of estrogen hanging around.
I'd go with masteron /primo and var/Tbol to be safe.

**jimmyinkedup** · 05-05-2015, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by NACH3

Jimmy what about above when op said you won't need an AI? Imo you always need an AI especially on a blast(and he's sensitive to test to Estro conversion) may not need the norm of 25mg Ed w/Stane or Dex at .25eod seems like overkill... DA for sure... Opinion on AI Jimmy?

Edit** saw op said gave it on hand but I'd start it low? 12.5 Ed or 6.25?

It depends, if he is going to go with a true trt dose he may not need it but then again he may. Blood work should dictate its necessity.
You bring up a good point/possible scenario to mind though Nach. OP should def have either tamox or ralox on hand. Regardless of AI or DA use, if that gyno starts to worsen you may need to jump on one of those serms. In fact OP you might even encounter a scenario where your e2 appears in line on blood work but the gyno itself for whatever reason flares up. In a case like that the serm should be taken on cycle even in lieu of the ai. In a case like this all the advice your are getting is good. The thing is you need to be prepared for all scenarios. AI, DA and serm (ralox or tamox) all in hand pre cycle. Blood work is always advised but in this case pretty much a must.

**NACH3** · 05-05-2015, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

If you're looking to avoid gyno, steer clear of Tren as well. That was the first drug that caused me gyno issues. The prolactin and progesterone it increases can cause gyno even with just a bit of estrogen hanging around.
I'd go with masteron/primo and var/Tbol to be safe.

Primo is a very cool compound, one of my favorites b4 Nandrolone - & Tren next lol... But coupled w/Var on a backload - unless your using longer esters then a kicker would be better... Hence the mild var/& T-Bol (Bona suggested) you can use which ever in the beginning and the other as a backload... I'd suggest running var last to finish strong and get that more ripped finish... But your diet will dictate your results...

**jimmyinkedup** · 05-05-2015, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

If you're looking to avoid gyno, steer clear of Tren as well. That was the first drug that caused me gyno issues. The prolactin and progesterone it increases can cause gyno even with just a bit of estrogen hanging around.
I'd go with masteron/primo and var/Tbol to be safe.

This is solid advice. People read that tren doesnt aromatize and get a false impression of its real world effects. The increased sensitivity it causes to estrogen makes it a very tricky compound to mess with especially when it comes to someone that is prone to or has gyno.

**TrevHoff** · 05-05-2015, 11:25 AM

Well looks like I can get my hands on some prami but the dosing is 2mg/ml. How I would even get 0.125 measurement from that I don't know! And obviously taking too much is a bit of a concern.

So maybe with Tren the juice is not worth the squeeze!? (pun intended)

As suggested, maybe Mast @ 600mg/wk with TRT Cyp @ 125mg/wk is the way to go? Maybe throw in some tbol Var to kick things off right or at the end as suggested?

Appreciate the input thus far, I feel I would be fine with Tren but living with gyno since a teenager is not fun to say the least and loving the results of my gyno Surgery 5 weeks ago.

**NACH3** · 05-05-2015, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by TrevHoff

Well looks like I can get my hands on some prami but the dosing is 2mg/ml. How I would even get 0.125 measurement from that I don't know! And obviously taking too much is a bit of a concern.

So maybe with Tren the juice is not worth the squeeze!? (pun intended)

As suggested, maybe Mast @ 600mg/wk with TRT Cyp @ 125mg/wk is the way to go? Maybe throw in some tbol Var to kick things off right or at the end as suggested?

Appreciate the input thus far, I feel I would be fine with Tren but living with gyno since a teenager is not fun to say the least and loving the results of my gyno Surgery 5 weeks ago.

If the prami is in liq. Form which it seems it is(2mgs/ml - what's the total ml of vial - just 2mgs/ml)??

Ar-r has it in a 60ml vial(1mg/ml) check out the site

**TrevHoff** · 05-05-2015, 02:25 PM

Being in Canada too much risk going through ar-r . I can get through extremepeptide here in Canada without any question. Vial size is 30ml.

**RigPig** · 05-05-2015, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by TrevHoff

Being in Canada too much risk going through ar-r. I can get through extremepeptide here in Canada without any question. Vial size is 30ml.

No need to worry about Ar-r shipments to Canada, I am from Canada (Alberta like you) and just received my orders 2 weeks ago. It took about 3 weeks to get here but thats not an issue.
Also, if your source doesn't stock Prami (Miraplex) or Caber but stocks Tren & Deca , I'd be cautious.

**TrevHoff** · 05-05-2015, 02:45 PM

Good to note, still a risk coming through customs not that I am aware if extremepeptide does not come through the states never ordered with them. Not looking to start for another 3 weeks so good to note.

Thanks!

A number of ugl offer Tren deca with no Da as an option. But tend to agree with you.

**RigPig** · 05-05-2015, 03:11 PM

You are right but your source will most likely have a source of his own to get you a DA. I know N__Port (which is a very common UGL in our area) carries Prami in tabs - but they call it Miraplex. Maybe a stupid question, but have you asked your source yet? Only reason I ask is because my source doesn't list it but it is very available when asked for. You may end up with UGL-A Oils & UGL-B AIs & DAs as long as they are reputable and dosed properly it doesn't matter who's name is on it.

(full UGL name not posted, but I'm sure you can figure it out if you're familiar with them).

**TrevHoff** · 05-05-2015, 04:12 PM

Yeah I have access to NP, among a few others. NP has a minimum $ order and can't get Miraplex straight up without spending the min. That is the obstacle here, I was going to go with a different UGL for this cycle from which someone I know directly. Maybe this is my push to try NP then.

**TrevHoff** · 05-05-2015, 04:35 PM

Just got back from the docs for my test levels - 5.1 nmol/L = 146.97 ng/dl; extremely low to say the least.

Cholesterol LDL was high @ 3.58 mmol/L with low/high of 2.00 - 3.4; the other bad.... Liver enzymes were elevated with 76 U/L; low/high being 1 - 60 U/L.

With that said, Doc is going to wait for any TRT. Have some bloods done again here shortly, and hopefully will be back on par. Not certain what would cause these as my diet is pretty clean, except for maybe too much red meat (bison). Not a single clue as to what would cause my liver enzymes to be elevated but doing further tests to find out.

**RigPig** · 05-05-2015, 04:36 PM

I haven't heard about a min order, must be your sources rule in particular. However I can vouch for NP based on personal experience, but I am a faceless avatar on the internet so take that for what its worth to you. They have a very good rep and carry everything a guy needs, only thing you want to be careful of is ALL orals look the same. Don't get them mixed up lol you'll never figure out what is what. I accidentally dropped my Adex & Nolva packs, a few of each spilled out and I have no idea which one is which. Got rid of them. The wifes Var looks the same as the AIs and I've seen the Miraplex, also looks identical. Keep them in their original packs or at least label them if you move them into a container.