Front load Test vs Dbol

[Zodiac85]

Hey guys, just looking for your opinion on this. I'm doing my second cycle soon. My question is: would you recommend to front load the test or use Dbol for the first 4-6 weeks? Or maybe it doesn't matter which?

Background: My first cycle was about a year an a half ago. It was Test only, and I followed the protocol in the first cycle post. Everything went well. I've had some injuries/illness and family stuff come up since then. My lifts are a bit higher than when I started my first cycle, but not as high as when I got off.

I'm really looking forward to cycling again, and just want to "get to it" and not have to way 3-4 weeks for it to kick in. If you recommend just doing the same cycle again, I'd listen to that too.

Thanks

[NACH3]

Hey guys, just looking for your opinion on this. I'm doing my second cycle soon. My question is: would you recommend to front load the test or use Dbol for the first 4-6 weeks? Or maybe it doesn't matter which?

Background: My first cycle was about a year an a half ago. It was Test only, and I followed the protocol in the first cycle post. Everything went well. I've had some injuries/illness and family stuff come up since then. My lifts are a bit higher than when I started my first cycle, but not as high as when I got off.

I'm really looking forward to cycling again, and just want to "get to it" and not have to way 3-4 weeks for it to kick in. If you recommend just doing the same cycle again, I'd listen to that too.

Thanks

If you had a successful cycle I wouldn't change much... Would you be ok w/pinning EOD w/prop?! If so, I like the idea of either running it throughout, or frontloading it for 4wks w/whatever other test you'll be pinning!

You could always do that or like you said d-Bol - if your gonna frontload w/prop(or if you run it on this cycle from the start - try backloading the d-Bol for a stronger finish... Just food for thought

[Zodiac85]

If you had a successful cycle I wouldn't change much... Would you be ok w/pinning EOD w/prop?! If so, I like the idea of either running it throughout, or frontloading it for 4wks w/whatever other test you'll be pinning!

You could always do that or like you said d-Bol - if your gonna frontload w/prop(or if you run it on this cycle from the start - try backloading the d-Bol for a stronger finish... Just food for thought

You gave me some more to consider, thank you. I would be fine with EOD with prop. I had no issues pinning on the first cycle. I will be using Test E or C for my base. I had read a thread way back (which I can't find now) about doing 1000 Test E the first week, 750 week 2 and then 500 after that to front load. I'm just guessing on those numbers, but that's the gist. Would you recommend Test Prop over that idea?

Or maybe just keep it simple and pin 500 Test E and jump start with Dbol. I like the idea of using the Dbol at the end, but I'm not sure it's necessary for me at this stage. The first cycle I felt like superman right up until the last day. Thanks!

[NACH3]

You gave me some more to consider, thank you. I would be fine with EOD with prop. I had no issues pinning on the first cycle. I will be using Test E or C for my base. I had read a thread way back (which I can't find now) about doing 1000 Test E the first week, 750 week 2 and then 500 after that to front load. I'm just guessing on those numbers, but that's the gist. Would you recommend Test Prop over that idea?

Or maybe just keep it simple and pin 500 Test E and jump start with Dbol. I like the idea of using the Dbol at the end, but I'm not sure it's necessary for me at this stage. The first cycle I felt like superman right up until the last day. Thanks!

I wouldn't kickstart your long ester that way(yet) it can be done(but unless your very advanced(in cycling) it's mainly the samething as "short burst cycling(w/out the drop in mgs)"(which I'm not suggesting to anyone - it's a very advanced protocol and one really needs to know they're body and AI dosages)...

If you don't have a problem w/pinning eod(make sure you are rotating between 4-6 sites so no scar tissue builds up - glutes/quads/delts/tris etc) then I would frontload or just go w/prop(500mgs w/a d-Bol backload or kicker w/it(I just don't see the need to kickstart if your using prop(which is my go to test it's a preference for sure - and some get bad pip from it - luckily I don't)...

What your main goal? Bulking/cutting? What's your stats? Age/weight/height/bf%/ etc

[Zodiac85]

What your main goal? Bulking/cutting? What's your stats? Age/weight/height/bf%/ etc

I'll be doing a clean bulk. My goal is building strength for grappling and just in general. So not so much body building, although I don't mind looking good too.

I'm 36, weigh 190, 5'10, bf is 12-15% (I haven't done an official bf test in a while). If I had to pick a number I'd guess I'm closer to 15, but I won't start my cycle until I get it tested at 13 or less. I try to follow my set protocol exactly and cross all the "t's" so to speak.

So, I can throw out that front loading idea. :-) Nach3, you'd recommend prop over Dbol to start it off? With prop, I'm thinking I'd stick to my 500mgs of Test C base and just add prop on top for 4 weeks? I'm not opposed to just running prop the whole time if that's better either. 2x per week on test C was just very easy for me the first time.

[NACH3]

I'll be doing a clean bulk. My goal is building strength for grappling and just in general. So not so much body building, although I don't mind looking good too.

I'm 36, weigh 190, 5'10, bf is 12-15% (I haven't done an official bf test in a while). If I had to pick a number I'd guess I'm closer to 15, but I won't start my cycle until I get it tested at 13 or less. I try to follow my set protocol exactly and cross all the "t's" so to speak.

So, I can throw out that front loading idea. :-) Nach3, you'd recommend prop over Dbol to start it off? With prop, I'm thinking I'd stick to my 500mgs of Test C base and just add prop on top for 4 weeks? I'm not opposed to just running prop the whole time if that's better either. 2x per week on test C was just very easy for me the first time.

Ok... Clean bulk - it all comes down to your diet(obviously) on any compound - you can cut/bulk on any of em too - barring your diet/training are in point)...

I will say that prop has more of a rep for leaning out moreso(but I don't really buy into that as I said it's all dictated by your diet)... Eat clean and you'll gain muscle and should drop bf too!

If your going w/test e or C then run that at 500(+ maybe) wkly and frontload w/the prop(100mgs EOD on top of your long ester! That should give you a nice jump start to your cycle! Then if sides are at bay(or are none) then you could think about throwing in d-Bol at the end.... Play around w/these ideas and re-post your cycle for critique! Also peaked sure your running an AI/HCG on cycle!

[Zodiac85]

Ok... Clean bulk - it all comes down to your diet(obviously) on any compound - you can cut/bulk on any of em too - barring your diet/training are in point)...

I will say that prop has more of a rep for leaning out moreso(but I don't really buy into that as I said it's all dictated by your diet)... Eat clean and you'll gain muscle and should drop bf too!

If your going w/test e or C then run that at 500(+ maybe) wkly and frontload w/the prop(100mgs EOD on top of your long ester! That should give you a nice jump start to your cycle! Then if sides are at bay(or are none) then you could think about throwing in d-Bol at the end.... Play around w/these ideas and re-post your cycle for critique! Also peaked sure your running an AI/HCG on cycle!

Thanks! This is exactly what I needed. I'll be following Austinites "My first cycle" protocol for AI/hCG and PCT to the letter. I think I'll pick up some Dbol too and consider that for the end of the cycle. Thanks for the input.

[Juced_porkchop]

Ok... Clean bulk - it all comes down to your diet(obviously) on any compound - you can cut/bulk on any of em too - barring your diet/training are in point)...

I will say that prop has more of a rep for leaning out moreso(but I don't really buy into that as I said it's all dictated by your diet)... Eat clean and you'll gain muscle and should drop bf too!

If your going w/test e or C then run that at 500(+ maybe) wkly and frontload w/the prop(100mgs EOD on top of your long ester! That should give you a nice jump start to your cycle! Then if sides are at bay(or are none) then you could think about throwing in d-Bol at the end.... Play around w/these ideas and re-post your cycle for critique! Also peaked sure your running an AI/HCG on cycle!

^^ LOVE this advice!
I totally agree.
and really front load/kick isn needed, but it is nice to start off with a little boost : $

[scotty51312]

good advice above. personally I don't recommend front loading just yet. its hard to do right and get your test levels not to fluctuate as your pyramiding the dose up and back down. A dbol kicker is very easy to manage. You may experience a little bloat. And if you're not prone to male pattern baldness thats about the only side I've ever had from it. But its your cycle Weight out all the information you can find and make what you think is the best choice

[Zodiac85]

and frontload w/the prop(100mgs EOD on top of your long ester! That should give you a nice jump start to your cycle!

How long would you run the prop on top of the Test C or E? 3 or 4 weeks?

[Zodiac85]

A dbol kicker is very easy to manage.

By that you mean at the beginning of the cycle? What length and dosage would you recommend of Dbol on top of the Test base?

[NACH3]

How long would you run the prop on top of the Test C or E? 3 or 4 weeks?

4wks... But as mentioned your hormones(testosterone) will be greatly in flux, and it can be tricky to dial your AI in... Tbh - if your comfortable w/the long esters don't change, and if you do the prop or the Diana try just sticking to one, so like above - it may be easier for you to manage an oral kicker(d-Bol is notorious for it's high aromatization rate too)...

[Zodiac85]

4wks... But as mentioned your hormones(testosterone) will be greatly in flux, and it can be tricky to dial your AI in... Tbh - if your comfortable w/the long esters don't change, and if you do the prop or the Diana try just sticking to one, so like above - it may be easier for you to manage an oral kicker(d-Bol is notorious for it's high aromatization rate too)...

Thanks!

[Zodiac85]

4wks... But as mentioned your hormones(testosterone) will be greatly in flux, and it can be tricky to dial your AI in... Tbh - if your comfortable w/the long esters don't change, and if you do the prop or the Diana try just sticking to one, so like above - it may be easier for you to manage an oral kicker(d-Bol is notorious for it's high aromatization rate too)...

Would you bump your ai usage for the first 4 weeks as well? I'm leaning towards 4 weeks of Dbol for simplicity. I'm planning Arimidex @ 0.25mg eod during the cycle.

[NACH3]

Would you bump your ai usage for the first 4 weeks as well? I'm leaning towards 4 weeks of Dbol for simplicity. I'm planning Arimidex @ 0.25mg eod during the cycle.

That's what dose I started w/this past cycle but I'm getting to know my body much more... On your last cycle what dose did you use for your AI?

[Zodiac85]

That's what dose I started w/this past cycle but I'm getting to know my body much more... On your last cycle what dose did you use for your AI?

I started with the .25 but was getting a little behind. I don't have my notes with me, but about half way through the cycle I bumped it up a little. Maybe .35 or something (just off the top of my head).

***edit*** So, I guess the stock answer of .25 isn't quite right. I'll probably start a little higher. It felt pretty noticeable when my E got too high and again when it went back down. It was at an appropriate level when I did my mid-cycle blood work. I'll look back at my notes and go from there.

[NACH3]

I started with the .25 but was getting a little behind. I don't have my notes with me, but about half way through the cycle I bumped it up a little. Maybe .35 or something (just off the top of my head).

Ok... The point was that if your gonna kickstart w/d-Bol it aromatizes heavily - so I'd start w/what you finished with if its coming from the same source/place... I've found that liqidex from the site sponsor was dosed more accurately and it will make a difference for sure!

But if you ended say at .35 then I'd start this cycle at that and if your feeling anything(sensitive nips sore etc) then up it to .5 eod but your 6wk BW is key for this so make sure you pull your ore cycle BW mid cycle for any adjustments and 8wks after pct to compare and see if you've recovered fully

[Zodiac85]

Got it. Thanks for taking the time!

[-Horus-]

I would rec the dbol for 4-5 weeks, 30mg ed.