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  1. #1
    aet63 is offline New Member
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    Cutting with Salbutamol, T4, Metformin and My Questions

    Hi,

    First of all sorry for my English
    I want to make little cutting cycle without AAS.

    So, i search many things on internet and 3 components took my attention.

    My plan is doing 8 week cutting cycle with these 3 components.

    1-8 week Salbutamol (Ventolin) 4 mg x 2 times ED (4 mg on first week)
    1-8 week T4 (Levotiron) 100 mcg x 2 times ED (50 mcg x 2 days, 100 mcg x 2 days, 150 mcg x 2 days on first week)
    1-8 week Metformin (Matofin XR) 500 mg x 2 times ED (500 mg on first week)

    I will also use B12 supplement. I read some post about Metformin reduces B12 at body and people that use Metformin should use B12 supplement. I will use product named Benexol that has 250 mg B1 / 250 mg B6 / 1 mg B12.

    Salbutamol usage : I will use 1 pill after lunch, 1 as pre-workout. There will be 6 hours between them.
    T4 usage : I will use 1 pill after meal that between breakfast and lunch, 1 pill as preworkout with Ventolin at the same time.
    Metformin usage : I will use 1 pill after breakfast, 1 pill after workout with protein shake.

    My Questions:
    1-) First of all, usage of these three components together is correct ? If it's correct, is there something wrong with dosage that i planned ?
    2-) Is my usage correct as i described above ? I want to be sure my timing to take pills in day is correct.
    3-) I read some posts about using T3 affects negatively your natural T3 production on body but T4 doesn't. I choose to use T4 because of this.Is it correct ?
    4-) I read some posts about Avandia is better choice for same purpose with Matofin XR(Metformin). Is it correct ? What is difference between them ?
    5-) I read on some websites that mention metformin has negative effect on androgen receptors and relatively testosterone . Is it true ? Can anyone provide link of research or link from relaible website ?
    6-) Should i take T4 after or before meals ? Some people says T4 is more effective when it is taken before meals.

    My Stats:
    Age : 27
    Weight : 79 KG
    Height : 176 CM
    Body Fat : %15
    Training History : 3 years (2 years continuously)
    TDEE : 1858,4 kcal (According to 66 + (13,7*Weight)+(5*Height)-(6,8*Age) formula)

    I'm also very happy with my diet plan. But i want to lose weight and fat fast than now.

    Thanks a lot in advance
    Last edited by aet63; 06-12-2015 at 12:53 AM.

  2. #2
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    Would like some more information. Age? Height/weight? Body fat %? Training history? Do you know your TDEE?

  3. #3
    aet63 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    Would like some more information. Age? Height/weight? Body fat %? Training history? Do you know your TDEE?
    Sorry for missing information
    Age:27
    Weight:79 KG
    Height:176 CM
    Body Fat : %15
    Training History : 3 years (2 years continuously)
    TDEE : 1858,4 kcal (According to 66 + (13,7*Weight)+(5*Height)-(6,8*Age) formula)
    I'm also very happy with my diet plan. But i want to lose weight and fat fast than now.

    I also added 2 questions and my stats to first post on this thread.
    Last edited by aet63; 06-12-2015 at 12:45 AM.

  4. #4
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    I tried to answer all of your questions below. They were addressed in no particular order. In short, salbuteral (albuteral) is fine but stay away from the other two compounds. We’re the same height and I have been training for a longer than you, no offense, but I think at 79 KG your BF is higher than 15%. I’m not saying this to be rude. Just think you should reevaluate your body fat percentage. Also, I calculate your TDEE to be 2500-2700 cal.

    Salbuteral is a great compound and one of my favorites. It works well at preventing muscle catabolism in a caloric deficit and cutting weight. I have run it as high as 6 mg 4 times per day but prefer 6 mg 3 times per day. When using a β2 agonist such as salbuteral one also needs to use ketotifen in order to prevent receptor down regulation. This can be achieved by taking 1 mg of Ketotifen before bed.

    Unless you are going to cycle test at the same time you should not use T3/T4. Your liver will convert T4 into T3 and it will then equally affect fat and muscle cells. The anti catabolic effect salbuterol has on muscle tissue is not enough to counteract this effect. You would need to take at least 200 μg or more of T4 in order to see results. The hypothalamic pituitary axis is governed by a negative feedback loop. When serum concentrations of thyroid hormone reach a certain threshold their production in the body will be stopped. Production will begin again shortly after usage.

    Metformin is dosed around 850-500 mg twice a day. Unless you’re diabetic or a woman suffering from PCOS, then you shouldn’t take metformin. There have been no long term studies done on healthy people taking this drug. All of the short term studies on healthy males show a significant decrease in total and free testosterone . Avandia is similar to metformin in that it reduces insulin resistance. However, it is terrible for your cardiovascular system and liver. It can increase the risk of heart attack by over 40%. Glaxo paid $229 million in lawsuits over avandia.

    Effects of short term metformin administration on androgens in normal men

  5. #5
    aet63 is offline New Member
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    Thank you so much for your help.

    I will not use metformin on this cycle.

    My trainer calculate my body fat two months ago and my body fat at that time was %16. That's why i wrote %15 to my post. May be the device that calculates body fat is broken. I will calculate my body fat with another device and will post a message here. My daily calorie intake is 2972 now.

    I'm still not sure about T4 but i think after your message i will not use it because its catabolic effect.

    I will search information about ketoxifen.

    Have a great day.
    Last edited by aet63; 06-13-2015 at 07:48 AM.

  6. #6
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    If you're goal is to cut then you should be consuming at least 300-500 calories below you TDEE.

  7. #7
    aet63 is offline New Member
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    Numbere,

    As i search from internet, i should take ketotifen every two week one dose one pill 1 mg. Is it right?

  8. #8
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    When you're taking salbuteral or clenbuterol you should take 1 mg of ketotifen every night before you go to bed. This will up regulate your β2 receptors.

  9. #9
    aet63 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    When you're taking salbuteral or clenbuterol you should take 1 mg of ketotifen every night before you go to bed. This will up regulate your ?2 receptors.
    Thank you so much for all your help

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