Moving from ProHormones to AAS

**Tearracodo** · 06-13-2015, 07:12 AM

Hi,

I would like to get some advice about the move from using Pro hormones to the AAS (Injectable).

My main motivation for this while, orals are great, overall the cycle length is limited due to the impact on the liver.

My stats are follows:

Height: 5ft 4"
Body Fat: 12%
Weight: 12 Stone 8 lbs
Age: 23
Lifting experience: 6 Years

I am quite young I guess to a lot of other users but my experiences so far haven't been to bad. I have been extremely concious of the impact on the liver so I have always kept my cycles brief when on cycle.

Pro hormone Experience

First Cycle: Trenadrol 30/60/60/30 - Produce some good results, it wasn't very liver toxic, but HPTA had a hard shut down. Noticeable Atrophy however post cycle the body picked itself up, no real adverse effects beside High BP while on cycle. Blood works after 2 months off were fine. As it has a low conversion I think the effects were mild.

Second Cycle: Trenadrol 30/30/30 - this was mainly to reduce Body Fat slightly. It was more about the mental sides of things like focus that this cycle was taken. Some improved shape as well. First day off cycle led to significant depression however subsided very quickly and never felt it again. No Atrophy this time due to the low dose and tolerance since the last cycle.

Third Cycle - SuperDrol Clone - 10/20/20/10 - Large gains in mass, increased aggression throughout and Increased BP. On Cycle support included liver protection and BP control herbs Celery & Hawthorn Berry. Better BP control then the Trenadrol cycles however. I am in PCT at the moment, Aggression has continued into PCT particularly the first two weeks however this my be linked to the PCT itself, now that I am in week 3 and have lower the dosage of the herbs etc it is much more under control. Lower Sex drive at the start of PCT but steadily returned to even better then before cycle

. As I say while natural test improved with Nolva, the other PCT may have had an adverse effect.

Given the experience that I describe I think I am in better position to judge what the effects of a real AAS would be like. Aggression and High BP are defiantly up there with libido being effected less.

My next cycle I want to be an Injectable that I can run for a few months. Sustanon 250 is what I am looking for, but to run it on its own. I need some advice however, given my experience would it be advisable could I get away with something stronger for Mass in particular. I want only dry gains and so far that's what I have. Test is wet steroid and I would need AI etc.

My Plan so far is:

Dbol (To kick start gains but would not do it if I though liver stress was too much. 3 weeks max if I did do it)
Sustanon 250 - Week - 1-3 500mg, Week 3 -12 750mg
AI
Nolva at hand in case of Gyno

PCT 3 week after last pin:

Nolva - For 4 Weeks 20/20/10/10
PCT from IronLabs - for 6 Weeks

Blood works at 4 weeks after end of PCT.

Let me know guys your thought and what you reckon the strongest AAS I can get on at this stage.

**PistolPete33** · 06-13-2015, 08:15 AM

NEVER waste your time with Prohormones. As for starting a cycle you need to wait until you are 25. Esp since you may have already screwed up your HPTA system. I would have a full blood panel pulled to see where you're at

**djgreen** · 06-13-2015, 10:18 AM

agreed a Full blood panel and after taking highly liver toxic PH I wouldn't touch another oral for a long time

**tice1212** · 06-13-2015, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by PistolPete33

NEVER waste your time with Prohormones. As for starting a cycle you need to wait until you are 25. Esp since you may have already screwed up your HPTA system. I would have a full blood panel pulled to see where you're at

I'm pretty sure he screwed that up already bro with the PH's he has taken.

**NACH3** · 06-13-2015, 01:27 PM

I don't get why younger people think they're ok - they're more Hepatoxic then most everything we use... They offer good gains along w/test(halo superdrol) etc but needs to be run w/test - and your not ready w/the age thing

Definitely get bw to see what's going on internally and don't take anything till your health is squared away first and foremost!

**tice1212** · 06-13-2015, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

I don't get younger people think they're ok - they're more Hepatoxic then most everything we use... They offer good gains along w/test(halo superdrol) etc but needs to be run w/test - and your not ready w/the age thing

Definitely get bw to see what's going on internally and don't take anything till your health is squared away first and foremost!

Honestly bro most males at that age (myself included back then ) are not educated on what they are doing to there body and just listen to ur buddies that are big and running them. The scumbag sales person in these supplement stores don't care if u fvck urself up. They just want the money. So they will tell u ANYTHING to make u buy it.... When I first did my first PH before and AAS. I was 23. I knew the owner of the supp shop because he sponsored me. He told me I could put on 10lbs of muscle. (I didn't know that they could sell things like steroids ) I thought I was a marketing strategy. Lo and behold I was shut down for a year and a half not understanding why I couldn't get my dick hard until I went to my primary doctor to get blood work because I felt so shitty he told me my touch levels were at a 105. He sent me to an endocrinologist that put me on clomid therapy for 3 months with my numbers back up to 650.

**Tearracodo** · 06-13-2015, 04:24 PM

I understand the shutdown from these compounds is harsh, however HPTA recovery is possible even after the worst aas abused, not that I'm suggesting you should abused aas.

Is there anything in particular from the post that tells you that I am still shutdown? I am not arguing that there isn't shutdown, but the way you make it sound is like there is no hope.

It's little early for blood works as my pct hasn't finish yet, it would make sense to have blood works as a measure of how effective pct has been and where I still need to work on.

**Ashop** · 06-13-2015, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by naz1054

I understand the shutdown from these compounds is harsh, however HPTA recovery is possible even after the worst aas abused, not that I'm suggesting you should abused aas.

Is there anything in particular from the post that tells you that I am still shutdown? I am not arguing that there isn't shutdown, but the way you make it sound is like there is no hope.

It's little early for blood works as my pct hasn't finish yet, it would make sense to have blood works as a measure of how effective pct has been and where I still need to work on.

My bet is that you will recover just fine. I would definitely get blood work done but I agree with you waiting awhile after to PCT to see how your HPTA has recovered.

**NACH3** · 06-13-2015, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by tice1212

Honestly bro most males at that age (myself included back then ) are not educated on what they are doing to there body and just listen to ur buddies that are big and running them. The scumbag sales person in these supplement stores don't care if u fvck urself up. They just want the money. So they will tell u ANYTHING to make u buy it.... When I first did my first PH before and AAS. I was 23. I knew the owner of the supp shop because he sponsored me. He told me I could put on 10lbs of muscle. (I didn't know that they could sell things like steroids) I thought I was a marketing strategy. Lo and behold I was shut down for a year and a half not understanding why I couldn't get my dick hard until I went to my primary doctor to get blood work because I felt so shitty he told me my touch levels were at a 105. He sent me to an endocrinologist that put me on clomid therapy for 3 months with my numbers back up to 650.

I worded that wrong - anyone who thinks they're ok w/out a test base!

I hear you Tice - my buddy had gyno surgery and tons of other problems - but that's why I'm saying these things - there is a reason they're not really highly recommended(there hepatic nature, and suppression/shut down) - I try and steer anyone and everyone away at any age under 25 as you know is/can be detrimental to one health!

They may have their places(comps etc) but as far as cycling imo I'd much rather stick to AAS/and do it right(even w/the heavy hitters if done right/safely/and manage your E2 prolactin etc it's still the game we play - imo it's safer when done right by experienced successful members, instead of listening to these promoters/sponsors etc as(like you mentioned) ususlly don't care one bit - or are just as stupid as the rest of the population when giving info on safe and correct protocols of juicing... Just my opinion... I don't wish whst you went through on anyone(not my worst enemy)....

**lovbyts** · 06-13-2015, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

I don't get why younger people think they're ok - they're more Hepatoxic then most everything we use... They offer good gains along w/test(halo superdrol) etc but needs to be run w/test - and your not ready w/the age thing

Definitely get bw to see what's going on internally and don't take anything till your health is squared away first and foremost!

When you are that age you/we were indestructible. Once we reach 30 and look back we realize not so much...

Originally Posted by naz1054

I understand the shutdown from these compounds is harsh, however HPTA recovery is possible even after the worst aas abused, not that I'm suggesting you should abused aas.

Is there anything in particular from the post that tells you that I am still shutdown? I am not arguing that there isn't shutdown, but the way you make it sound is like there is no hope.

It's little early for blood works as my pct hasn't finish yet, it would make sense to have blood works as a measure of how effective pct has been and where I still need to work on.

It's not only possible but has been proven you can survive a fall from a 5 story building or jump into water from Outdoor high dive record: 177 ft, Indoor high dive record: 110 ft

Would you like to give those a try also? Why not?? Dont say the risk because you are doing the same now.

**Tearracodo** · 06-14-2015, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

When you are that age you/we were indestructible. Once we reach 30 and look back we realize not so much...

It's not only possible but has been proven you can survive a fall from a 5 story building or jump into water from Outdoor high dive record: 177 ft, Indoor high dive record: 110 ft

Would you like to give those a try also? Why not?? Dont say the risk because you are doing the same now.

My point before was the thread had found a theme, the HPTA will never return to normal even though some function of normal HPTA must be there as I don't exhibit the extreme physical symptoms of shut-down. Of course BW is the only way to know for sure.

I wouldn't abused steroids it was merely a way to make a point.

Given the feedback though I may give it a miss. With what I have done so far I am happy with my gains, maybe its human nature to always want more. I'll finish this PCT and get BW done and just stay in the gym and try and hold onto this gains.

No doubt if HPTA does return complementary normal over the next year, there will still be some potential left natural as well.

FYI so far 3 weeks in i lost only 2lbs of the gains that I had and as long as I can maintain these gains there wont really be a compelling reason for me go on a AAS cycle.