Testosterone Enanthate and Water Retention

[Stephen051]

Hello Everyone,

I am doing a lot of research and still planning my first cycle of test E alone.
My goal is to develop strength, power and speed and I want to be lean, cut
and dry looking. I do not want water retention. This is why I am now concerned
if I take 500mg test E for 12 weeks every 3.5 days I will hold a lot of water and
bloat.

I am thinking to use test E at maximum dose of just 250mg/week and the reason
is I am concerned about this water retention and bloating.

As I am building body for 100m sprints I do not want extra water weight or bloated
situation with my body.

Hence why I am thinking for first cycle of only 250mg test e before later in future cycle
3 months after to stack winstrol with test e and later on stack test with tren and
later again stack test, tren and winstrol.

I am planning to never exceed 250mg test E and the reason is I do not want
the bloating and water retention. This 250mg test E will be the base for every cycle.

Every drug I read about that cause water retention or bloating I avoid or reduce.
It is recommended to use test as base hormone for every cycle.

The reason is I want cut, lean and athletic appearance and dislike bloat and water look.

What are your opinions?

[pitweiler]

The bloat really comes down to your diet. At least in my experience with Test E.

[numbere]

If one has a crappy diet and does not control e2 then they can have more blot on 250 mg/week than a person who diets and manages e2 correctly while taking 1 g/week.

[redz]

There is no point to running 250mg test e per week as it is barely more than a trt dose. Effectively using an ai with a clean diet will prevent bloat.

[PrettyPlease?]

There is no point to running 250mg test e per week as it is barely more than a trt dose. Effectively using an ai with a clean diet will prevent bloat.

With all due respect I would not exactly say there is no point. It is fairly more than the body produces per week and one would still see benefits from this dose.

OP have you researched using a TRT dose of testosterone as your base (like 150mg/week) and using a non-aromatizing compound in conjunction?

[fxrjuiceman]

Take 500mg test e you'll be fine as long as diet is fine your not gonna get puffy like dbol . Just watch your e2 levels. And I'm with the guy 2 posts above 350mg ain't shit dam near trt really 500 ain't much but is perfect for an intro to this lifestyle

[redz]

With all due respect I would not exactly say there is no point. It is fairly more than the body produces per week and one would still see benefits from this dose.

OP have you researched using a TRT dose of testosterone as your base (like 150mg/week) and using a non-aromatizing compound in conjunction?

With all due respect you should stop giving advice. Suggesting he runs 2 compounds for his first cycle is an even worse idea and 250mg is a waste of time to be shutting yourself down.

[PrettyPlease?]

With all due respect you should stop giving advice. Suggesting he runs 2 compounds for his first cycle is an even worse idea and 250mg is a waste of time to be shutting yourself down.

Oh yes two compounds is such a horrible idea because he needs to see how his body reacts to 150mg of testosterone a week before adding a second compound? Give me a break you are the one saying 250mg is barely a TRT dose then he should certainly have no worries with 150mg a week.

You think 500mg of testosterone a week is the best compound for a sprinter? Did you read the OP? Far better compounds suited for his goals. All I was advising is a replacement dosage of testosterone. You have been around long enough not to parrot information.

[TheTaxMan]

Without getting into arguements,
I think you would still see gains with 250mg if your worried 500mg is too much for you then go for it.

Personaly i would go for 400-500mg a week though, its quite a lean cycle if done correctly

Whatever choice you make your diet, training, ai, hcg and pct all needs to be there and used correctly to reach your wishes, needs and goals

Good luck!

[Mr.BB]

This is a bodybuilding forum, you will strugle to have any advice outside of bodybuilding.

Hire a coach.

[Stephen051]

Such varied opinions, what a pain. Well the safe bet would have to be less 250mg/w than more 500mg/w then I can see if its worthwhile to increase to 500mg later on.

[redz]

h yes two compounds is such a horrible idea because he needs to see how his body reacts to 150mg of testosterone a week before adding a second compound? Give me a break you are the one saying 250mg is barely a TRT dose then he should certainly have no worries with 150mg a week.

You think 500mg of testosterone a week is the best compound for a sprinter? Did you read the OP? Far better compounds suited for his goals. All I was advising is a replacement dosage of testosterone. You have been around long enough not to parrot information.

Test is very performance enhancing, I have used it for hockey and seen great results and I stand by the fact 250mg is a waste of time I have seen it enough times.

[Stephen051]

This is a bodybuilding forum, you will strugle to have any advice outside of bodybuilding.

Hire a coach.

With due respect I think this is a steroid website. Bodybuilding has its own definitions and goals which even vary by gender and you don't seem to discriminate against women asking about how to use various drugs? Why discriminate on the basis of sport?

[Stephen051]

Test is very performance enhancing, I have used it for hockey and seen great results and I stand by the fact 250mg is a waste of time I have seen it enough times.

250mg is not a waste if it is used for the purpose as a base hormone for an introduction to AAS when the real deal performance enhancement will come later when it is stacked with tren and winstrol . Although I could be wrong as amateur this is how I see it.

The anabolic rating on tren is five times that of test e and this means that 250mg of tren is going to give me simular gains to 1.250gram of test without chance of bloat and more leanness.

[redz]

I've never heard of runners using tren at all, winstrol on the other hand is very performance enhancing. I`m not arguing that test at a low dose can be used as a base I`m just explaining stacking compounds makes no sense for a first cycle.

[TheTaxMan]

Tren is supposed to hinder cardio so i couldnt see runners using it
As redz said many use winstrol , alot of professional athletes often get caught and banned due to using it as well, always in the media.

I cant really offer you much advice on what to take for sport as thats not what steroids are commonly used for, normaly body building.

As for the original question of water retention, i think you will be fine at 250 or 500 if you keep everythin in check

[Stephen051]

Alright first cycle I will plan to try 250 and 500 in the case everything is okay for the second cycle.

Its not as if I am a long distance runner or anything 100m sprint lasts only 10 or 11 seconds at maximal effort
that's why Tren would be useful. Cardiovascular performance is not important for this event as it is almost entirely
anaerobic.

[Stephen051]

I've never heard of runners using tren at all, winstrol on the other hand is very performance enhancing. I`m not arguing that test at a low dose can be used as a base I`m just explaining stacking compounds makes no sense for a first cycle.

Okay, well if you read my posts you will learn my first cycle is test e only 250mg/w but I plan on stacking both win and tren down the line in future cycles while using 250mg test e as a base.

[TheTaxMan]

Plan and excute your first cycle without thinking anout cycle 2,3,4 its hard not to think of the future we all do it

But its best to not get confused or go head over heels

Go with test only for your first cycle, if it was me id do test e 500mg a week for 10-12 weeks

[redz]

You will see very little gain from 250mg but you can go ahead and do it anyways because one other novice user told you too. Have fun with getting shutdown for virtually no gain.

[tectime]

250 mg wkly puts me at around 1800 serum tes levels and over 70 on free t. Hmm that's enough to see some great gains. True I prefer 300+ mgs per wk even on cruise mode but with the proper food consumption and a good disciplined work out routine you can see gains and def maintain all gains from blast mode at 250 mgs/wkly. would i suggest such a low cycle dose.... No not unless it is accompanied by another compound, but anytime you can raise you tes levels to 3x your nat. you better see some gains of you need to get of your ass and get busy in the gym and kitchen!

[NACH3]

250 mg wkly puts me at around 1800 serum tes levels and over 70 on free t. Hmm that's enough to see some great gains. True I prefer 300+ mgs per wk even on cruise mode but with the proper food consumption and a good disciplined work out routine you can see gains and def maintain all gains from blast mode at 250 mgs/wkly. would i suggest such a low cycle dose.... No not unless it is accompanied by another compound, but anytime you can raise you tes levels to 3x your nat. you better see some gains of you need to get of your ass and get busy in the gym and kitchen!

Run this test only cycle - and the bloat is all determined by your diet/training/water intake(more the better) - one can cut on any compound out there if all that above is on point! I'd still say run 300+ but I'd do 500mgs wkly like stated - not b/c you won't see results on 250mgs wkly, but b/c your not stacking it w/anything yet as you need to know how you react!

After you know what test does to your body and how your body reacts to it - try EQ - it's a favorite amongst cyclists etc as it raises RBC in turn gives you more O2 - it will raise your HMC tho(viscosity of blood - depending on dose and duration)... Note - I'm not saying to run EQ now - just test - in future take a look for yourself!

[PrettyPlease?]

You will see very little gain from 250mg but you can go ahead and do it anyways because one other novice user told you too. Have fun with getting shutdown for virtually no gain.

Novice user? There are more people in here saying you will see gains at 250mg/week than not.

redz if you need large amounts of testosterone to see any kind of results I don't mind helping you with your diet. Just ask me big guy.

250 mg wkly puts me at around 1800 serum tes levels and over 70 on free t. Hmm that's enough to see some great gains. True I prefer 300+ mgs per wk even on cruise mode but with the proper food consumption and a good disciplined work out routine you can see gains and def maintain all gains from blast mode at 250 mgs/wkly. would i suggest such a low cycle dose.... No not unless it is accompanied by another compound, but anytime you can raise you tes levels to 3x your nat. you better see some gains of you need to get of your ass and get busy in the gym and kitchen!

Thank you for your post. This is my point exactly. We got guys saying 250mg/week is barely more than a TRT dose. Who here is on 250mg/week TRT to keep their levels normal or "barely above normal?" You will see results at the level and for a first cycle do we really need to be advocating more is better?

[PrettyPlease?]

Test is very performance enhancing, I have used it for hockey and seen great results and I stand by the fact 250mg is a waste of time I have seen it enough times.

And I have seen 250mg/week not be a waste enough times. The guy is sprinter not a bodybuilder and not a hockey player.

[NACH3]

Novice user? There are more people in here saying you will see gains at 250mg/week than not.

redz if you need large amounts of testosterone to see any kind of results I don't mind helping you with your diet. Just ask me big guy.



Thank you for your post. This is my point exactly. We got guys saying 250mg/week is barely more than a TRT dose. Who here is on 250mg/week TRT to keep their levels normal or "barely above normal?" You will see results at the level and for a first cycle do we really need to be advocating more is better?

Agreed - 250mgs is a high TRT dose(usually one gets away w/125-150wkly split into two doses) so I too believe for your first cycle you'll see results - all I was referring to was the norm for a first cycle is 500mgs wkly split into 2 doses e3.5d....

[Stephen051]

I was watching an AAS documentary recently and the professor of endocrinology was saying the tests produce naturally between 50-75mg/ test /week. So 250mg test e is still significantly higher than natural output or what is called a physiologic dose.

Also many elite bodybuilders have been found to be taking 100X the physiologic "naturally produced dose" of testosterone (i.e. 100X 50-75mg is 5000-7500mg test/week). This is obviously a problem.

So for you guys who argue 250mg (almost 4 times the natural production of testosterone), do you still think it will not give me any results? I think you will find the professor would disagree. Four times natural output of test is a significant deviation from natural levels. Even if results are minimal I don't see test e as a drug I will use for PE but rather as a drug to assist with helping me move and manage into the real deal of AAS for PE which are tren and winstrol .

If I am using hcg while on cycle at 250mg/w my tests might still be making 50mg of natural weekly test so I could well be still getting 300mg/test/week which is 4 times the physiologic dose.

Gram for gram when it comes to PE test simply cannot compete with tren or win however test is a base hormone being the male primary sex hormone it is useful as a tool for using AAS properly kind of like clomid and nova for pct, hcg during cycle, ect. At the moment I stand by the idea that for my application and purpose as a sprinter test is merely a tool for keeping my body working properly and not a drug of choice for PE. However for you guys who do bodybuilding and want to risk using it at 10-100 times the physiologic dose and want the huge and thick looking/water holding bodies, good-luck to you.

[Stephen051]

If one has a crappy diet and does not control e2 then they can have more blot on 250 mg/week than a person who diets and manages e2 correctly while taking 1 g/week.

What do you mean by e2? I hear it again and again. e2 e2 what you guys on about?

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Stephen,

Here is the problem with low dose cycles...
Everyone loses some gains during and after PCT due to low test levels.
Now while you will gain muscle using 250mg test per week. Let's say you gain 4 lbs.
Let's say you would gain 7 lbs using 500mg.
Let's say you lose 2lbs during PCT.
That would leave you with a gain of 2lbs of muscle vs. a 5lb gain.
Let's say you could've gained a half pound going naturally.
Net you are left with...
Either a 1.5lb difference or a 4.5lb difference.

So the question becomes...
If you are going to mess with your HPTA and assume the risks of permanent damage.... Is it worth it for 1.5lbs? Why not at least get the 4.5lbs?

Note I am not saying you won't gain using 250mg.
I am saying it is not much gain for the risks assumed.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I was watching an AAS documentary recently and the professor of endocrinology was saying the tests produce naturally between 50-75mg/ test /week. So 250mg test e is still significantly higher than natural output or what is called a physiologic dose.

When doing this calculation do not forget to include the ester weight.
250mg of test e is about 200mg of pure test.
Hence you will be about 3x the normal person or about 2x a genetically gifted person.

[Stephen051]

Stephen,

Here is the problem with low dose cycles...
Everyone loses some gains during and after PCT due to low test levels.
Now while you will gain muscle using 250mg test per week. Let's say you gain 4 lbs.
Let's say you would gain 7 lbs using 500mg.
Let's say you lose 2lbs during PCT.
That would leave you with a gain of 2lbs of muscle vs. a 5lb gain.
Let's say you could've gained a half pound going naturally.
Net you are left with...
Either a 1.5lb difference or a 4.5lb difference.

So the question becomes...
If you are going to mess with your HPTA and assume the risks of permanent damage.... Is it worth it for 1.5lbs? Why not at least get the 4.5lbs?

Note I am not saying you won't gain using 250mg.
I am saying it is not much gain for the risks assumed.

Okay Deadlifting Dog, assume the same risks for 500mg as 250mg. How many people start AAS first cycle in life with 500mg test e?

Whatever baseline for test E dosage I choose, I will keep this base dosage amount for life as my focus for PE will be on tren and winny and managing the side effects though BW results with other compounds.

[Mr.BB]

When doing this calculation do not forget to include the ester weight.
250mg of test e is about 200mg of pure test.
Hence you will be about 3x the normal person or about 2x a genetically gifted person.

250mgs of test E have 180mgs of actual test

So on average testes produce 50-75 mgs per week, what does the top 5% produce? Or we want to be average?

[Stephen051]

250mgs of test have 180mgs of actual test

So on average testes produce 50-75 mgs per week, what does the top 5% produce? Or we want to be average?

No, not average. The entire population of natural males fall into the realm of 50-75mg/w with extremely rare outliers and that means the top 5% should fall into here too. More than 75mg/w naturally could be said to be extremely rare.

Mr BB---You just used the argument from fallacy, fallacy to try and disprove my statement through re-wording it. The professor said the tests of natural males produce between 50-75mg/w. He didn't say the average tests of males produce between 50-75mg/w.

Assuming I am also using hcg throughout the entire cycle if 180mgs is equivalent to 250mg of test e then lets say I produce 50mg naturally I am actually now on 230mg/w but soon after I stop the test e prior to pct the total in my body will dip well below 50mg/w.

If I use 500mg/w test e then following that I am on 410mg/w real test for 12 weeks then suddenly dipping below 50mg/w prior to pct.

[PrettyPlease?]

250mgs of test have 180mgs of actual test

That is dependent on the ester

[Mr.BB]

That is dependent on the ester

forgot to put an E in there, thanks

[The Deadlifting Dog]

250mgs of test E have 180mgs of actual test.

Thanks for the correction.
I was going from memory.
Bad memory.
In checking the intrawebs I now will declare that 250mgs of test E has 175mgs of actual test.

So my point of low dose cycles not being worth the risk is now even more relevant.

[Mr.BB]

No, not average. The entire population of natural males fall into the realm of 50-75mg/w with extremely rare outliers and that means the top 5% should fall into here too. More than 75mg/w naturally could be said to be extremely rare.

Mr BB---You just used the argument from fallacy, fallacy to try and disprove my statement through re-wording it. The professor said the tests of natural males produce between 50-75mg/w. He didn't say the average tests of males produce between 50-75mg/w.

Assuming I am also using hcg throughout the entire cycle if 180mgs is equivalent to 250mg of test e then lets say I produce 50mg naturally I am actually now on 230mg/w but soon after I stop the test e prior to pct the total in my body will dip well below 50mg/w.

If I use 500mg/w test e then following that I am on 410mg/w real test for 12 weeks then suddenly dipping below 50mg/w prior to pct.

Dude, you do whatever you want.

In bodybuilding the gains from 250mgs of testosterone do not outweight the risk of being shut down. Its why we are here in this forum, to learn from what dozens other members have tried and suffered from.

For sprinting I have now idea. There is only one thread (that I know of) from someone knowledgeble in athletics who have presented valuable information about steroids for sprinting athletes. This thread is a few years old, Im not going to waste my time looking for it, you are definitely not worth it.

Good luck with your tren use in sprinting and in thinking that HCG can give you 50mg/day production lol

[redz]

Dude, you do whatever you want.

In bodybuilding the gains from 250mgs of testosterone do not outweight the risk of being shut down. Its why we are here in this forum, to learn from what dozens other members have tried and suffered from.

This is what I have been trying to drill home plus if you think hcg will give you 50mg of test while taking synthetic test you aren`t too knowledgeable.

[Stephen051]

Stephen,

Here is the problem with low dose cycles...
Everyone loses some gains during and after PCT due to low test levels.
Now while you will gain muscle using 250mg test per week. Let's say you gain 4 lbs.
Let's say you would gain 7 lbs using 500mg.
Let's say you lose 2lbs during PCT.
That would leave you with a gain of 2lbs of muscle vs. a 5lb gain.
Let's say you could've gained a half pound going naturally.
Net you are left with...
Either a 1.5lb difference or a 4.5lb difference.

So the question becomes...
If you are going to mess with your HPTA and assume the risks of permanent damage.... Is it worth it for 1.5lbs? Why not at least get the 4.5lbs?

Note I am not saying you won't gain using 250mg.
I am saying it is not much gain for the risks assumed.

Thankyou Mr B, Deadlisfting dog and Redz. I support dogs and your own point of view expressed above and I will start my first cycle at 500mg/w of test e.

I read the basics of the hcg article as an amateur I have no idea how much natural test hcg keeps you holding.

I will upload my entire cycle plans into a detailed excel file to the site when im finished.

[Stephen051]

Run this test only cycle - and the bloat is all determined by your diet/training/water intake(more the better) - one can cut on any compound out there if all that above is on point! I'd still say run 300+ but I'd do 500mgs wkly like stated - not b/c you won't see results on 250mgs wkly, but b/c your not stacking it w/anything yet as you need to know how you react!

After you know what test does to your body and how your body reacts to it - try EQ - it's a favorite amongst cyclists etc as it raises RBC in turn gives you more O2 - it will raise your HMC tho(viscosity of blood - depending on dose and duration)... Note - I'm not saying to run EQ now - just test - in future take a look for yourself!

Cant really see the value of raising RBC and O2 carrying capacity as a 100m sprinter. The event is almost exclusively anaerobic.