Is it even worth it to bulk naturally when you are REALLY Skinny?

**Kidanis** · 08-06-2015, 01:00 PM

So I'm extremely skinny I'm 135 poundsat 5'9" I see some gains but nothing to write home about. I wasn't gaining anything at all but thanks to the useful nutrition advice I got here I got some gains VERY little but some none the less. I used to be 108 at my height.

I've noticed something I'm working hard and grinding keeping my diet on point , yet I see tiny gains that are frustrating as hell.
Everyone else is like BOOM 30 pounds in like 2 months and they are close to my weight, of course I asked every one of these guys and they all tell me one thing, "Bro it's not worth bulking up without test"

I see that most guys at the gym openly admit to being on some juice. I've seen guys as skinny as me start AFTER me and with a shitty diet and horrible work out gain like 30 pounds of mass almost over night. Here I'm like "why the hell does everyone on the forum tell me to bulk naturally"

I really wanna know what benefit will I gain by doing this the hard way and having to wait 5 plus years only to have agood physique while I can do it a years time with juice?

**redz** · 08-06-2015, 01:07 PM

You need to learn to eat, reality is pretty much all "hard gainers" just don`t understand they need to eat more.

**dfarre** · 08-06-2015, 01:10 PM

That's not skinny, I was 125 @ 6'1.

**Frontpump** · 08-06-2015, 01:14 PM

Stats? Age, time lifting etc. I'm sure others will ask.

Hmm, I think most people would agree you need to earn your gym stripes for a couple years before jumping on the juice. There are a lot of mistakes and methods to learn before amplifying everything.

I started at 160, and made it to 200 within 4 years. Mostly using Arnold's Encyclopedia, which I don't necessarily recommend. Doubled my strength or more in every single lift. Bro it took 4 years. And like you, I'm a hard gainer. Maybe not "as hard" of a gainer, but it wasn't ****ing easy. Especially seeing the dudes just explode with muscle next to me everyday. It's just life man.

That said, unless you have a wasting disease, there is nobody on the planet who can't gain weight if they eat the right stuff and lift heavy consistently.

Try pro sups karbogain, and now foods whey protein. Take as many scoops as you need to see results. A little creatine never hurts either, if you're okay with some minor hair loss in the long run. Add all of that to a good diet of course.

Also, some people get some mileage on their stomaches, start vomiting their post work out meals from over-eating etc. That's a little too far. Better to eat 90% of what you can handle for several years.

Steroids are not joke. Everybody can gain naturally, and it's not until you max that out that you should start injecting IMO.

And other more experienced people will say more with less words after me.

**PrettyPlease?** · 08-06-2015, 01:14 PM

Your caloric needs at 135 are much higher than they were at 108. Has your diet been adjusted to reflect this change?

**Kidanis** · 08-06-2015, 01:32 PM

Well I'm eating 3000 cals a day with 150 grams of protein I asked here if increasng it to 4k would be ideal and most people said no I have a good apettite eating those 3ks are very easy specially adding a shake here and there

**Kidanis** · 08-06-2015, 01:33 PM

I'm 27
lifting for about a year
My squat is about 185
Bench is 155
deadlift is about 225

Ad also I take a mass gainber and 5 grams of creatine a day

**Kidanis** · 08-06-2015, 01:33 PM

I do know how to eat though...

**PrettyPlease?** · 08-06-2015, 01:34 PM

5'9" at 135lbs. Age and Body Fat percentage? How many days a week are you working out? Do you have a physical job?

**Kidanis** · 08-06-2015, 01:43 PM

27
about 10%
3 days a week

yes I work on my feet and walk around a lot(restaurant)

**PrettyPlease?** · 08-06-2015, 01:52 PM

You have made good progress in the time you have been lifting. Rome was not built in a day and there is no end point in this lifestyle. By waiting and building a solid foundation first you will be more likely to maintain your gains without being on all the time and there is a lot more longevity in that. If you are having a hard time gaining weight at 135 what makes you think you can maintain a weight that is 10-30lbs heavier?

Patience is a virtue.

**Kidanis** · 08-06-2015, 01:54 PM

I see that but I dont wanna have an amazing body when I'm like 60 you know I want to have it when young to impress the chicks obviously

**davidtheman100** · 08-06-2015, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Kidanis

So I'm extremely skinny I'm 135 poundsat 5'9" I see some gains but nothing to write home about. I wasn't gaining anything at all but thanks to the useful nutrition advice I got here I got some gains VERY little but some none the less. I used to be 108 at my height.

I've noticed something I'm working hard and grinding keeping my diet on point , yet I see tiny gains that are frustrating as hell.
Everyone else is like BOOM 30 pounds in like 2 months and they are close to my weight, of course I asked every one of these guys and they all tell me one thing, "Bro it's not worth bulking up without test"

I see that most guys at the gym openly admit to being on some juice. I've seen guys as skinny as me start AFTER me and with a shitty diet and horrible work out gain like 30 pounds of mass almost over night. Here I'm like "why the hell does everyone on the forum tell me to bulk naturally"

I really wanna know what benefit will I gain by doing this the hard way and having to wait 5 plus years only to have agood physique while I can do it a years time with juice?

Yes it's good because eating in a surplus while training and sleeping enough will ensure LBM growth and once you bulk, cut down, bulk, cut down a few times you'll end up with a respectably lean physique that is holding a good amount of muscle and alot of people will wonder how you did it but they did not see the time where you were holding a little bit more BF% and it also helps with muscle maturity as well

**Kidanis** · 08-06-2015, 02:09 PM

True but everyone around me it's doing 6 times what I did in a year with juice and juice is relatively safe with the proper knowledge I've heard. My questions is Should I keep natural or just say "**** it" and get on some test etan? since everyone around me are like well into their 200s and guys who were just as skinny as me when I started and huge in just like 3 months.

This one guy started the gym like 3 months and some change ago and went from 110 to like 160 with a really shitty diet and work out. Me ? I'm here with a meticulous diet , counting macross and hitting a good workout and only gained like 27 pounds in a whole year. My logic being if I increase my calories work out more days due to the iuncreased recovery of roids and work harder I can a great physique in less that 5 years... who in gods name has the patience to wait 5 years just for his gains? o.o

**bloodchoke** · 08-06-2015, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Kidanis

Everyone else is like BOOM 30 pounds in like 2 months and they are close to my weight, of course I asked every one of these guys and they all tell me one thing, "Bro it's not worth bulking up without test"

Stalwart rule of thumb: If you ask for advice and the first word you get is "bro," disregard everything said after that.

EDIT: When asking for *fitness* advice and the first word you get is "bro," disregard everything said after that.
When asking how to find a good hair gel or body-spray and the first word you get is "bro," heed every word after that.

**Kidanis** · 08-06-2015, 02:15 PM

I do see your point ...

**Kidanis** · 08-06-2015, 02:37 PM

and myabe ask him for some fist pumping and tanning advice

**ghettoboyd** · 08-06-2015, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Kidanis

True but everyone around me it's doing 6 times what I did in a year with juice and juice is relatively safe with the proper knowledge I've heard. My questions is Should I keep natural or just say "**** it" and get on some test etan? since everyone around me are like well into their 200s and guys who were just as skinny as me when I started and huge in just like 3 months.

This one guy started the gym like 3 months and some change ago and went from 110 to like 160 with a really shitty diet and work out. Me ? I'm here with a meticulous diet , counting macross and hitting a good workout and only gained like 27 pounds in a whole year. My logic being if I increase my calories work out more days due to the iuncreased recovery of roids and work harder I can a great physique in less that 5 years... who in gods name has the patience to wait 5 years just for his gains? o.o

27 pounds in a year is fuking amazing bro...you have only been lifting for a year and you expect more?...you really need to weight the risk/reward factor here, you are obviously old enough so good luck what ever you decide...

**Kidanis** · 08-06-2015, 02:43 PM

Personally I would preffer NOT too but it hardly seems worth it because gains are not all that great or maybe I'm just expecting too much

**Mitch535** · 08-06-2015, 02:53 PM

I agree, 27 pounds in a year without steroids is amazing work. I say keep doing what you are doing, and stop trying to compare yourself to everyone else. You aren't in the gym lifting for everyone else, you are in the gym lifting for you. And since you mentioned being 60, you absolutely do need to consider the future. If you build a house, you start with the foundation. If you build your body, you need to build a foundation. Build your foundation on hard work and proper diet. Your bones and tendons will thank you for properly preparing them before you start loading excessive mass too early. You'd rather have an extra year of natural lifting and progression and have a healthier future than jumpstart your test and hate yourself when you are older. Anything worth doing is worth doing right. If you've gained 27 pounds in a year, you are doing it right. So keep doing what you are doing and in a year's time, at the same pace, you'll be sitting in a good spot with great lean mass and you'll physically be ready to start taking things to the next level.

**Kidanis** · 08-06-2015, 03:07 PM

I alwyas though my gains weher pretty crappy but I guess I was wrong then

**ghettoboyd** · 08-06-2015, 03:46 PM

there lies the problem my friend because you will most likely be disappointed with your first cycle cus that probably wont get you the body that your hoping for...it will take you many cycles to see the results you are imagining/seeing in your head...be aware of that...and the consequences possibly of embarking on this journey...

**dubrovin1012** · 08-07-2015, 06:34 AM

Yeah 27 lbs in a year is good but most likely your gains are going to slow down drastically. So don't expect the same on your second year. Stay natural for as long as you can or even forever. But if you do want to start doing roids then I think your g2g just as long you follow the proper protocol.

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**Kidanis** · 08-07-2015, 09:10 AM

Well I wanna weight around 160 - 180 and these guys did it with a single cycle o.0

**dubrovin1012** · 08-07-2015, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Kidanis

Well I wanna weight around 160 - 180 and these guys did it with a single cycle o.0

With good training and diet you will hit 160 but it won't be pure muscle. One thing you should consider is if you want to do steroids for a long time or just one time thing. Most likely you will be hooked and you will do many cycles.

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**SEOINAGE** · 08-07-2015, 11:07 AM

This thread is absolutely ridiculous. You have some issues to work out. Basically need a big dose of reality. First off stop telling yourself you know what you are doing. That first off is key to learning and improving. I don't know how you can expect to gain 80% of your body weight in no time and it all be quality. Your motivations for lifting won't be enough to sustain you either. Naturally you should have no problem getting to your goal weight in hardly any time. In your situation you could likely have big results in a short duration naturally. I had been training for a while to get up to 155 lbs, but then made some changes and was able to put on 30 lbs in several months. You could look decent at 160 in a short time naturally. Crying about it taking 5 years just makes me want to slap you.

**musclestack** · 08-07-2015, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Kidanis

Well I wanna weight around 160 - 180 and these guys did it with a single cycle o.0

Monitor these guys' progress. I assure you that once they come off the sauce, they will shrink down to their original size. Why? You said it yourself...they don't know how to train/diet. Just wait for it. I see these types of guys in the gym all the time. Hell, most of them even stop training when they come off because they have the mind set that they can't make gains without AAS anyway. While it is much more difficult to make gains while off, the most important part in the perioud when you're off cycle is to HOLD ON to the gains you made while on. You can't do that if you quit training. Then they jump back on a few months later, and their training lift becomes one big roller coaster ride.

Anyway, I'm getting a little off topic...

As mentioned above, 27 pounds is outstanding in just one year of training. The gains will slow as you get bigger/stronger, but just imagine if you could put another 10-15 lbs on this coming year? You'll be close to your goal, and you'll have done it naturally, giving you a better base to work with when you're actually ready to start AAS. Then, you'll be one of the guys who can actually hold onto your gains from your cycles because you have the foundation and knowledge of how to do it. Meanwhile, your buddies in the gym...not so much, if they even last that long.

If you're 10% body fat right now, and gains have stalled, try increasing your daily calories to 3,500. If you're still gaining, why fix what's not broken? You're not going to get an amazing physique in one year man. If that was the case, everyone would be hitting the gym. Most of us have been training for a loooong time, decades even. I started training right out of high school weighing 160 lbs. same height as you. I'm now 220 lbs. with slightly lower body fat than when I was 160. I'm 31 years old now, and even though I didn't consistently train through the past decade, I have about 6-7 years of solid training under my belt when all added up. Yes, I've cycled, but my foundation was built after several years of hard work in and out of the gym, training naturally.

Give it time. Progress is progress no matter how slow you feel it's going.

**dubrovin1012** · 08-07-2015, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

This thread is absolutely ridiculous. You have some issues to work out. Basically need a big dose of reality. First off stop telling yourself you know what you are doing. That first off is key to learning and improving. I don't know how you can expect to gain 80% of your body weight in no time and it all be quality. Your motivations for lifting won't be enough to sustain you either. Naturally you should have no problem getting to your goal weight in hardly any time. In your situation you could likely have big results in a short duration naturally. I had been training for a while to get up to 155 lbs, but then made some changes and was able to put on 30 lbs in several months. You could look decent at 160 in a short time naturally. Crying about it taking 5 years just makes me want to slap you.

He gained 27 pounds on his first year, there's no way he's going to gain anything close to that his second year. He'll be lucky to gain 15 lbs.

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**Kidanis** · 08-07-2015, 03:38 PM

Okay then what do you recomend I do with my nutrition then? I'm open for suggestions and If you read this tread whole I said I would like to AVOID doing steroids and asked the question because I wasn't sure. Hell I'm not gonna take word of mouth advice from these dudes, they barely eat! and they don't even train legs!

**Kidanis** · 08-07-2015, 03:43 PM

Yeah I know gains slow down trust me I've noticed. I remember ,my father used to weigh the same as I used too and Got up to like 155 in a year which was insane, no roids and he did it all at 45! that was pretty awesome. I tried following his diet and workout for a bit but didn't work out so well for me. My logic being that since my genetics are prtety much the same as his, I was gonna work for me but boy was I wrong

**SEOINAGE** · 08-07-2015, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by dubrovin1012

He gained 27 pounds on his first year, there's no way he's going to gain anything close to that his second year. He'll be lucky to gain 15 lbs. Sent from my samsung phone

He's 135 lbs of course he could gain more than 15 lbs in a year. It took me a year to go from 145-155 but that was because I just wasn't eating right, and my training could have been a lot better. You should be able to get in the 160s without much issue at that height.

**PrettyPlease?** · 08-07-2015, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

He's 135 lbs of course he could gain more than 15 lbs in a year. It took me a year to go from 145-155 but that was because I just wasn't eating right, and my training could have been a lot better. You should be able to get in the 160s without much issue at that height.

You beat me to it.

**dubrovin1012** · 08-07-2015, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

He's 135 lbs of course he could gain more than 15 lbs in a year. It took me a year to go from 145-155 but that was because I just wasn't eating right, and my training could have been a lot better. You should be able to get in the 160s without much issue at that height.

I doubt it. He already used up his noob muscles. What he is now is irrelevant because everybody has different genetic starting weight. If he has only gained 10 lbs (like you did) his first year then yeah he would have a chance to gain 20 pounds on his second year.

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**papathesmurf** · 08-07-2015, 05:17 PM

I started lifting (crossfit type stuff) when I was 14 and I went from 135-145 lbs. I never really started putting on size until I really started to eat. When I first started to gain weight I wrote down what I was eating and gradually added calories protein and carbs on a weekly basis until I started to grow. Everyone's body is different and everyone needs different macros to grow. If what ever you are doing is not working eat more. It might be expensive but i'm sure that it will work.

**SEOINAGE** · 08-07-2015, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by dubrovin1012

I doubt it. He already used up his noob muscles. What he is now is irrelevant because everybody has different genetic starting weight. If he has only gained 10 lbs (like you did) his first year then yeah he would have a chance to gain 20 pounds on his second year. Sent from my samsung phone

No that is complete bs. He still has lots of noob gains to make.i can understand starting points but not at that small, I started at 70 lbs when I was 13, used my noob gains getting to 95.

**dubrovin1012** · 08-07-2015, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

No that is complete bs. He still has lots of noob gains to make.i can understand starting points but not at that small, I started at 70 lbs when I was 13, used my noob gains getting to 95.

Genetics do play a roll.

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**PrettyPlease?** · 08-07-2015, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

No that is complete bs. He still has lots of noob gains to make.i can understand starting points but not at that small, I started at 70 lbs when I was 13, used my noob gains getting to 95.

Again agreed. Not like he is at his genetic peak at 135lbs. Come on now.

**Kidanis** · 08-07-2015, 09:43 PM

So how many calories should I add to my current 3k I'm currently gaining slow in weight I put on virtually no fat I used to have an eight pack now I can see like four and I eat mildly dirty.

More protein? more carbs? dirty bulk?

Every week I challenge myself to lift more and more and I keep getting stronger but no significant change in weight

**Kidanis** · 08-07-2015, 09:45 PM

Also I don't know if this is relevant but I don't think i ever had a newbie gains effect on me since I always gained very slowly like 2 pounds a month I think on a few month I gained like 3 pounds

**tarmyg** · 08-07-2015, 10:15 PM

Kidanis,

Join the Nutrition Section, post up what you eat and we will try to help you out. There are a lot of knowledgeable people over there.

Thanks
~t