Arimidex, Aromasin and Proviron

[Baldur2630]

I just updated my journey through TRT. A quick recap, I'm now 74 years old, 105 kgs and 1.95m tall. I've been on self-inflicted TRT seeing that no-one wanted to treat me, since October/November 2013.

I'm on 200mg weekly of a mix of Test Cyp and Test Enan, I pin 100 mg every Sun and 100 mg every Wed.

I was advised to take an AI - Arimidex . Since I started to take it my libido has been going up and down like a bloody yoyo. I tried every day, once weekly, EOD fortnightly, but there seems to be no correlation between what I take and libido.

For the last 6 weeks my libido has hit rock bottom and started digging! I got new bloodwork last week. My estradiol is close to zero, my SHBG is just a tiny bit over the high limit and my LH is way down as well.

From talking to others, it seems that my body doesn't do much aromatization with the doses I'm taking, so I have been advised : -

1. Not to take any AI
2. To take (an unspecified dose) Aromasin
3. To take Proviron (unspecified dose).

I can bench 145 kgs. I still have more fat on my lower belly than I would like. I eat a high protein (2gm/kg bodyweight) and no cigs, booze or junk food. I go to the gy 4x weekly and I train with my wife and another guy of 47 and we push each other to the limit.

I have TWO questions :-

1. Which of the three options that I mention above seem appropriate. I personally tend to the Proviron but have no idea how much to take. Some suggestions would be nice.

2. I want to go on a short blast, I'm thinking along the lines of Deca for 10 to 12 weeks. Not crazy doses. Just around 150 to 200 mg weekly split over two doses. I just want the weather to cool off a bit. If I do this, should I take more Proviron or shoul I take Aromasin or should I take both. I really DON'T want to go back to Arimidex.

Obviously, I don't plan to do Deca until I get my libido stabilized and probably more bloodwork.

[The Titan99]

Hey Man! In my opinion your dose is too low to warrant an AI. As evidenced by bloodwork your estrogen has crashed resulting in no libido. I would continue on the test, drop the AI and get new estradiol tests done in a month if your not back to normal libido-wise. Also, until you get that sorted I wouldn't muddy the water with any deca blasting of 200mg/wk!! LOL! Although deca won't convert to estro, you could possibly have prolactin issues (doubt it at 200 mg/wk) which would affect libido but wouldn't be estrogen, which could get confusing.

Sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something. I'm 99% sure if you stop the AI you will return to happiness. However, it may take a while since it's a long road back from estro crashing.

[Baldur2630]

Hey Man! In my opinion your dose is too low to warrant an AI. As evidenced by bloodwork your estrogen has crashed resulting in no libido. I would continue on the test, drop the AI and get new estradiol tests done in a month if your not back to normal libido-wise. Also, until you get that sorted I wouldn't muddy the water with any deca blasting of 200mg/wk!! LOL! Although deca won't convert to estro, you could possibly have prolactin issues (doubt it at 200 mg/wk) which would affect libido but wouldn't be estrogen, which could get confusing.

Sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something. I'm 99% sure if you stop the AI you will return to happiness. However, it may take a while since it's a long road back from estro crashing.

Is there anything that I can do / take to speed it up? How about double the testosterone (or more) for a while?

[The Titan99]

Crashing your estrogen is kind of like tumbling your house of cards. It will take a while to build back up, but like with a house of cards, do you think it wise to stack the cards twice as fast to make up the lost time? You probably know what happens next? You swing the other way and end up in the same libido boat, but with the added fun of water retention, BP issues most likely, possible gyno issues (more of a threat since I'm not picturing a lean, cut 74 year old at 105 KG (am I right?) And then your back on the "How much AI should I take" ride again...

Nope. Slow and steady wins the race. It won't be that long before your feeling better (anything more than zero will be an improvement estrogen wise) and then better and better. It's not like you wait a month and then bang, your better.

BTW, 200 mg is not TRT. It's not much, but it's way over TRT I think...

[Chicagotarsier]

Small Recommendation on neither of your questions.

Adex is a compound that blocks and that is only as consistent as your dosage is per the half-life. Aromasin is a binding compound and per an earlier write up by Austin it is hard as hell to bottom out with it due to how it performs its task. If you have the means switch to Aromasin a bit and see if you can get dialed in better with it. As low of a dose of test as you are on the Aromasin should work easy peasy. Adex is like the second step up for Estrodol treatment because it is so much more powerful due to it blocks binding at the receptors (ALL ) Aromasin blocks at the receptors it has bonded with not the ones it is not bonded to.

My 2 cents for the libido.

You do not need to make yourself a second issue and get all out of sorts by unstabilizing your test level. Let it return normally.

[Baldur2630]

Crashing your estrogen is kind of like tumbling your house of cards. It will take a while to build back up, but like with a house of cards, do you think it wise to stack the cards twice as fast to make up the lost time? You probably know what happens next? You swing the other way and end up in the same libido boat, but with the added fun of water retention, BP issues most likely, possible gyno issues (more of a threat since I'm not picturing a lean, cut 74 year old at 105 KG (am I right?) And then your back on the "How much AI should I take" ride again...

Nope. Slow and steady wins the race. It won't be that long before your feeling better (anything more than zero will be an improvement estrogen wise) and then better and better. It's not like you wait a month and then bang, your better.

BTW, 200 mg is not TRT. It's not much, but it's way over TRT I think...

You're right, I'm not as lean as I would like to be. When I was young and doing heavy weight workouts, along with Judo, Aikido, and a hole host of other activities, I was LEAN and I weighed 110 kgs. I was one hell of a lot bigger than I am today. According to the fat calipers, I'm somewhere around 18% body fat. I wasn't able to do any form of exercise from around 35 until I retired. I already lost almost 50 kgs of fat. My take was that if I tried to lose any more, I would look skinny. I decided to put on some more muscle before trying to lose any more fat. I got down to 100 kgs, then went on a weight gain up to 106. Then I lost more fat to 100 again and I'm now on 105 kgs. I FEEL good and I look good enough to be still guessed at under 50 and no- one believes my age or that I can bench 145 kgs.

I just want my sex life back! I suppose you are right, so I guess being patient (not my strongest suit) is the way to go.

I tried 100 mg test, for a couple of months. Waste of time. It was only when I went up to 200 that I started to come back to life again. I'll stick with what I'm on until the libido hots up.

Does anyone know anything about Proviron ? I'm told this hots up the libido as well.

[The Titan99]

Small Recommendation on neither of your questions.

Adex is a compound that blocks and that is only as consistent as your dosage is per the half-life. Aromasin is a binding compound and per an earlier write up by Austin it is hard as hell to bottom out with it due to how it performs its task. If you have the means switch to Aromasin a bit and see if you can get dialed in better with it. As low of a dose of test as you are on the Aromasin should work easy peasy. Adex is like the second step up for Estrodol treatment because it is so much more powerful due to it blocks binding at the receptors (ALL ) Aromasin blocks at the receptors it has bonded with not the ones it is not bonded to.

My 2 cents for the libido.

You do not need to make yourself a second issue and get all out of sorts by unstabilizing your test level. Let it return normally.

I knew there was a reason I only use aromasin, just didn't know the particulars. Crashed repeatedly myself on adex. Got to the point where I never took an AI. Went around looking like the Michelien Man with feet like a pregnant woman. Lunk suggested I try aromasin and have been great ever since.

You're right, I'm not as lean as I would like to be. When I was young and doing heavy weight workouts, along with Judo, Aikido, and a hole host of other activities, I was LEAN and I weighed 110 kgs. I was one hell of a lot bigger than I am today. According to the fat calipers, I'm somewhere around 18% body fat. I wasn't able to do any form of exercise from around 35 until I retired. I already lost almost 50 kgs of fat. My take was that if I tried to lose any more, I would look skinny. I decided to put on some more muscle before trying to lose any more fat. I got down to 100 kgs, then went on a weight gain up to 106. Then I lost more fat to 100 again and I'm now on 105 kgs. I FEEL good and I look good enough to be still guessed at under 50 and no- one believes my age or that I can bench 145 kgs.

I just want my sex life back! I suppose you are right, so I guess being patient (not my strongest suit) is the way to go.

I tried 100 mg test, for a couple of months. Waste of time. It was only when I went up to 200 that I started to come back to life again. I'll stick with what I'm on until the libido hots up.

Does anyone know anything about Proviron? I'm told this hots up the libido as well.

Yeah, I'm 50 on an island full of 25 year olds and they all guess me at 35. Hope I'm the same as you 25 years from now. I take 50 mg of Proviron ed. It keeps the test from binding to the SHBG and leaves more free test in the blood. Honestly I don't think it's a game changer, but I take it and it works for me.

[Baldur2630]

I knew there was a reason I only use aromasin , just didn't know the particulars. Crashed repeatedly myself on adex. Got to the point where I never took an AI. Went around looking like the Michelien Man with feet like a pregnant woman. Lunk suggested I try aromasin and have been great ever since.



Yeah, I'm 50 on an island full of 25 year olds and they all guess me at 35. Hope I'm the same as you 25 years from now. I take 50 mg of Proviron ed. It keeps the test from binding to the SHBG and leaves more free test in the blood. Honestly I don't think it's a game changer, but I take it and it works for me.

So do you take the Proviron as well as the Aromasin? How much T do you take weekly and how much of the Aromasin and Proviron?

[The Titan99]

The Proviron has nothing to do with AI's. I take 50 mg every day. Like I said before, I wouldn't take an AI at 200 mg of test, but others may advise differently. I guess it's different for everyone. For instance, I take 25 mg eod of aromasin right now, but I'm on a ton more test than you. Since your estrogen is zero, in my mind it doesn't need any controlling at all right now!!

[Baldur2630]

The Proviron has nothing to do with AI's. I take 50 mg every day. Like I said before, I wouldn't take an AI at 200 mg of test, but others may advise differently. I guess it's different for everyone. For instance, I take 25 mg eod of aromasin right now, but I'm on a ton more test than you. Since your estrogen is zero, in my mind it doesn't need any controlling at all right now!!

The reason I ask is that once I get some e2 back, I want to add 200 mg Deca every week for a while. My knees still give me a hard time, not really painful, but uncomfortable and they make noises!

[The Titan99]

Deca doesn't covert to estrogen so no worries there.

[NACH3]

Deca doesn't covert to estrogen so no worries there.

Nandrolone does convert to estrogen... At 20% the rate of testosterone ... Very little but it does convert(not or rarely in adipose tissues)... For those that are more sensitive to aromatization may get some E2 sides(nothing like test)...

Found this on a quick search...
Nandrolone also show an extremely lower tendency for estrogen conversion. For comparison, the rate has been estimated to be only about 20% of that seen with testosterones9

[Baldur2630]

Nandrolone decanate does convert to estrogen... At 20% the rate of testosterone ... Very little but it does convert(not or rarely in adipose tissues)... For those that are more sensitive to aromatization may get some E2 sides(nothing like test)...

Found this on a quick search...
Nandrolone also show an extremely lower tendency for estrogen conversion. For comparison, the rate has been estimated to be only about 20% of that seen with testosterones9

That's good to know. I always thought that it did aromatization. Thanks for that info. I also have slight BPH and I've had it for years. I used to have to get up to pee, 3 or 4 times nightly. I had it treated with acupuncture. It seemed to work, because since than, I sometimes have to get up once, but most nights I sleep right through. I keep a careful watch on my prostate. I wonder if Deca can affect that. I've looked on the web, but everyone has a different idea. It's always nice to have some first hand experience to guide one.

[kelkel]

The obvious question. What are your Total and Free T levels at your present dosage?
200 mgs Test per week is high end TRT. Very few need this amount.
Proviron is a DHT and as such, will act as a weak AI. It will not take the place of an AI.
Estradiol is the wrong test for males. You need a sensitive estrogen assay.
LH levels are way down due to exogenous testosterone . When you take it, you shut your internal production down.
SHBG rises with age. It's nature. If you're already taking that much test and it's still high then it probably will always be. Optimize your Vit D Level.
I don't suggest adding deca until you settle your E2 issue. Give it a month as Titan suggested and pull more BW (correct E2 test) and evaluate both your Test dosage and E2.

[ab037]

200 mgs/ week is the upper dosage of TRT. An AI is only needed if you are suffering symptoms of high E2. Things like gyno or other related issues.
Did you pull labs pre TRT, during TRT? To check E2 levels before just adding in a compound?
Injecting twice a week subq is the best approach and helps to stabilIze serum levels which helps keep E2 from getting out of control, but everyone is different.
Are you taking HCG with your Test?
Have you been pulling labs to check you RBC? And Hemotocrit levles?
With that high a dose you could have polycythemia, very easily. I take 150/ week and def have it so, that is no joke and why you should be pulling reg labs.

[Baldur2630]

200 mgs/ week is the upper dosage of TRT. An AI is only needed if you are suffering symptoms of high E2. Things like gyno or other related issues.
Did you pull labs pre TRT, during TRT? To check E2 levels before just adding in a compound?
Injecting twice a week subq is the best approach and helps to stabilIze serum levels which helps keep E2 from getting out of control, but everyone is different.
Are you taking HCG with your Test?
Have you been pulling labs to check you RBC? And Hemotocrit levles?
With that high a dose you could have polycythemia, very easily. I take 150/ week and def have it so, that is no joke and why you should be pulling reg labs.

100 mg did nothing for me at all. Before I started, my Total Testosterone was 484, so doc said it was very high for a man of my age. When I told him it didn't make sense because I hadn't had an erection for almost 6 years, the asshole laughed and said "why would a man of 73 want an erection?"

I went to 3 different doctors before one agreed to test Free Testosterone and estradiol etc. my Free T was so low they couldn't measure it. My SHBG was way up, my estradiol was actually down a bit. The Endo they sent me to refused to treat me because of my age and high Total T!

I searched on this and many other Forums and started 100 mg weekly. No effect at all. It was only when I got up to 200 that I actually started to come alive. I've actually tried dropping it, but then I start to feel like shit again in a couple of weeks.

I had blood done again 3 months after I started TRT and HGH. It was OK. Estradiol was up to lab specs, SHBG still high. For my latest blood work, they don't actually give you figures over a certain limit, the just tell you >1154, same with Free T >22 ng/dl they use ng/L for the estradiol. It's <25 LH is <0.1 U/L. prolactin is 8.0 ug/L. SHBG is 76.9 nmol/L, which is just outside the lab max of 76.7.

My IGF-1 is 363 ug/L. Everything else on the blood was within the lab ranges.

I'm certainly not planning to add anything else to the mix until I get my e2 up and my sexy life turns on again. I actually LIKE to get erections and I actually LIKE sex, in spite of the moronic doctors!

There is zero history of cancer or heart problems in my family

I REFUSE to grow old gracefully. My grandfather missed his 100th birthday by a couple of weeks. He ate some bad fish paste. He was very healthy. I understand his father made 115. I plan to beat 'em both! Not only that, but I plan to bench 200 kgs, long before than!

[kelkel]

Ridiculous statement from a doctor.
How's your Hematocrit level Baldur?
Still no doubt you can titrate back a little, especially with the numbers posted. Don't get caught up in the mindset that more is better or you just have to have a certain amount to feel good. It's usually not the case.

[Baldur2630]

Ridiculous statement from a doctor.
How's your Hematocrit level Baldur?
Still no doubt you can titrate back a little, especially with the numbers posted. Don't get caught up in the mindset that more is better or you just have to have a certain amount to feel good. It's usually not the case.

I wrote of doctors many years ago. I went with my wife to a doctors surgery, she had to pick up something, not sure what. We sat waiting for over an hour to see the guy. There were children running around screaming. Not long after I collapsed, got taken home in a taxi. Doctor refused to make a house call because I hadn't seen a doctor for 12 years, so therefore I couldn't be sick. My wife MADE him come out and he diagnosed a cold and stress and told her to give me some aspirin. She got another doctor and I had Chicken Pox. Caught it from one of the screaming kids in his surgery!

The only reason I tool Arimidex was because almost everyone on every forum told me that I should definitely take it, so I did. It wasn't a SERIOUS problem for the past 8 or 9 months. Libido was up and down, but I thought that this was normal. My blood test in Feb showed estradiol only slightly low, and SHBG still up.

My latest Haematocrit is 5.13 (Max 5.63). In Feb it was 46.6.

[kelkel]

Ok. Main thing is to pull BW routinely to stay healthy. Things change as we age and what works now may not a year from now.

[Baldur2630]

Ok. Main thing is to pull BW routinely to stay healthy. Things change as we age and what works now may not a year from now.

Plan is to get another blood in 3 months maybe even sooner, depends on libido. Game plan is blood every 6 months.

HRT as in Hormone Replacement Therapy?
Vet as in Veterinarian or Vet as in Veteran?
From your posting times you aren't in the USA or am I wrong?

My daughter has a really strange blood result. Doctors where I live are idiots. Maybe you could help. No-one else seems interested - no it isn't steroids !

[InternalFire]

...my Total Testosterone was 484, so doc said it was very high for a man of my age... 73...

and I was going trough hell of my own, thinking what the hell is wrong, me being 29 now and testosterone lower than one of yours at 73, man, I am literally jealous hold strong

Talking about poor doc's - same terrible practice can be found in Ireland.

My labs shown FREE TESTOSTERONE - 11.80 nmol/L ( Range 8.80 - 35.00 ) Did conversion from nebido website: 340 ng/dl
TOTAL TESTOSTERONE - 13.93 nmol/L ( Range 9.9 - 27.8 ) Did conversion from nebido website: 402 ng/dl

And supposedly I'm absolutely fine by the doctor, "here, just take these SSRI's and let me know month later, there's the door... >>>"

Hold strong Baldur

[Mr.BB]

You can try using 50mg ed of proviron to reduce the shbg

[kelkel]

You can try using 50mg ed of proviron to reduce the shbg

True, but it's temporary. Same for Danazol.

[Baldur2630]

Ok. Main thing is to pull BW routinely to stay healthy. Things change as we age and what works now may not a year from now.

The last time Arimidex passed my lips was on 30 July. I've been pinning 500 IU HCG EOD and keeping my T the same (changing only one thing at a time). My lifts are still going up. I feel good, but my libido is still down there at the bottom of the well! I got hold of some Proviron from a colleague, but I haven't taken any yet. I was thinking along the lines that if my E2 is KNACKERED and I start taking Proviron which is a mild AI, it's only going to keep my E2 down there.

Any idea when I should start getting some libido back?

[Baldur2630]

Update : It's now September. I haven't taken any kind of AI since 30 July, not even Proviron . I kept my T levels as they were as per advised.

During this time, I still haven't had any real libido. I'm finding the weights seem to be getting heavier. I still have aches in joints, so obviously this isn't working.

I'm thinking of doubling my dose of Testosterone in the hope that I'll get some aromatization. I had a chat on Skype with a retired doctor friend ( who was also into Judo and weights when he was younger). He says that I'm probably one of the very few people who don't get very much aromatization at all and if this is true then I would need to take a LOT of testosterone for a short while or get estradiol tablets (joke for where I live in Europe!).

Not sur what to bump it up to. I thought maybe up it to 400 mg weekly or even more just for a short time. Then hope the e2 goes up.

Anyone got a better suggestion?

[Baldur2630]

On the advice of a good brother, I took a break and did 3 weeks of PCT.

I pinned 1,000 IU HCG 3 x weekly.
Week 1 1 x Clomid 3x daily,
Week 2 1 x Clomid twice daily
Week 3 1 x Clomid daily

Then for the next 6 weeks, I dropped my Testosterone to 125 mg per week (every Sunday). I took 500 IU HCG 2 x weekly and I've been taking my 1 IU daily of HGH all the time, but I only do 6 days per week and miss on Sunday's.

I took my 125 mg on Sunday and I had blood drawn on Thu last week and got the results back this morning. They are awful. No wonder I've been feeling like shit.

Estradiol 117 ng/dl. Limits 27 - 52
Prolactin 15.8 ug/dl Limits 4 - 15.2
Total T >52 nmol/L
Free T 0.717 nmol/L
FSH <0.1 Limits 1.5 - 17.4
LH <0.1 Limits 1.7 - 8.6
SHBG 84.3 nmol/L
DHEA-S 82.6 ug/dl. Limits 33.6 - 249.0
Vitamin D 67.8 ng/dl Limits 30 - 100

Symptoms : -

Sleeping badly,
Aches and pains
Just about zero libido,
Soft useless erections
Almost impossible to ejaculate
Putting on weight (not muscle)
Weights max stagnant,
Tired all the time.

My last blood, showed <0.1 estradiol and I wanted to see what would happen if I dropped my T and took no AI.

I was taking 200 mg T weekly before I started the PCT, but I also started taking Deca but only 50 mg weekly for the aches and pains. The bloody Doctor(?) never put prolactin on his blood test before, I had to demand it, because after he had filled out the form, I grabbed it and took a look and saw that he had not ticked Prolactin, in spite of the fact I asked for it every time. This time I made him do it.

First, I need to lower my prolactin and estradiol. The estradiol is easy, I have some Arimidex left over. I don't want to start taking this again on a regular basis, but I have it, so it makes sense to use it to get my estradiol down. How much should I take until I can get my Aromasin delivered.

I can get Dostinex but it's bloody expensive on a pension. I'm not planning to take Deca again for quite some time, so all I need it for is to reduce my prolactin. How long would I need to take it for and how much, how often?

Once I get back to normal, I'm just going to stay on Testosterone for at least six months. I read the Vitamin E, Vitamin B6 and zinc can also lower prolactin, but I happen to enjoy sex, so the sooner I can get back to normal the better.

I hope that someone has some suggestions. Remember I am 74 years old. Best 1RM Bench is 145 kgs (320lbs)

[InternalFire]

go buy some VITEX, higher dosages in men tends to increase LH secretion and lowers prolactin, resulting in higher free test ranges, worth a try and doesnt cost much, Ive been experimenting on it myself 4 tabs before night or otherwise 2 at night 2 in the morning (12h split) and my libido gone up significantly, more facial and chest hair growth, less moody, just good things to mention, and Ive been trying it few months ago, then month or almost two off, and now started again about half month in and I can tell you there is a difference. Bought mine on ebay and its natural stuff too. Also, are you supplementing with Vitamin A and Iron? Raw frozen liver is super dense in Vit A so I just take ~20g ED or EOD and ~15mg of iron from your diet or you can supplement with likes of 21st century brand

[Baldur2630]

You

go buy some VITEX, higher dosages in men tends to increase LH secretion and lowers prolactin, resulting in higher free test ranges, worth a try and doesnt cost much, Ive been experimenting on it myself 4 tabs before night or otherwise 2 at night 2 in the morning (12h split) and my libido gone up significantly, more facial and chest hair growth, less moody, just good things to mention, and Ive been trying it few months ago, then month or almost two off, and now started again about half month in and I can tell you there is a difference. Bought mine on ebay and its natural stuff too. Also, are you supplementing with Vitamin A and Iron? Raw frozen liver is super dense in Vit A so I just take ~20g ED or EOD and ~15mg of iron from your diet or you can supplement with likes of 21st century brand

Is this it? Vitex Agnus Castus: Vitamins & Supplements | eBay

[InternalFire]

I have bought these exactly there as part of my late vit's and minerals stack:

IRON: 21st Century Slow Release Iron Tablets, 60 Count (Pack of 3) -Compare to Slow FE | eBay

VITEX: Agnus Castus 1000mg vitex, chaste berry, natural (100 tablets) [Lindens 0946] | eBay

Vit B12 Methylcolabamine - sublingual: B-12 Methyl, 1000mcg x 100Loz, Methylcobalamin B12, Jarrow Formulas, 24Hr Post | eBay

Vit D 10.000IU: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291619324320

there's lots more but these are one of most contibuting to me I feel

these are nothing else but exactly what I've been getting.

So yea, if this exact type of VITEX, I would suggest to take it like a straight shot of 4 pills with some water about hour before bed on empty stomach and watch how you feel, I guess within a week or two you should start feeling better from this alone. I did alot of reading regards VITEX and I pulled so many various feedbacks of which most pages stated that in women it lowers T raises E so in other words works as an equalizer, and in men in higher dosages it works in an opposite direction such as lowering E and raising T, which I could say at least feels like it. I didnt notice much if any difference in sleep quality but like I said, libido did go up pretty OK and was less moody and hair growth has improved, all this better vitality I could say may be due to this, and if its placebo, Im also happy as I feel better while taking it vs. than when I'm not.

One pack of vitex lasts 25days if taken 4 a day, which I calculated out to be the about optimal dose for men. If you take lower dose you may not get benefits at all. I am open to corrections or suggestions if you feel I am dosing it too low or maybe you found some other info regarding this thing, but so far I liked it.

PS, at first I took 2 tablets for about 2 weeks daily, felt nothing, or if I did it was minor, then took 3tablets for a week already with better feel of well being, and then upped to 4 a day which I found optimal. All I can say worth trying, works for me If you dont expect it to work or you dont feel anything in first few weeks , just try stick to the regimen of lets say 4 tablets a day and get yourself few packs of these so you can try it for few months and see what happens

I wish you best luck with it man!

[Mr.BB]

On the advice of a good brother, I took a break and did 3 weeks of PCT.

I pinned 1,000 IU HCG 3 x weekly.
Week 1 1 x Clomid 3x daily,
Week 2 1 x Clomid twice daily
Week 3 1 x Clomid daily

Then for the next 6 weeks, I dropped my Testosterone to 125 mg per week (every Sunday). I took 500 IU HCG 2 x weekly and I've been taking my 1 IU daily of HGH all the time, but I only do 6 days per week and miss on Sunday's.

I took my 125 mg on Sunday and I had blood drawn on Thu last week and got the results back this morning. They are awful. No wonder I've been feeling like shit.

I stopped reading here...

So you did a PCT while on TRT???

What you did was completely useless, stop taking advice from ppl that dont understand hormones.

[Baldur2630]

I stopped reading here...

So you did a PCT while on TRT???

What you did was completely useless, stop taking advice from ppl that dont understand hormones.

No, I lost my libido, my erections, I was aching all over. My previous blood test showed that my estradiol was <0.1.

I stopped the testosterone completely for the three weeks I did the PCT, hoping that I could get my e2 back up and find out if I actually NEEDED to take an AI

I dropped my T from 200 to 125 weekly to see if such a small dose of testosterone as 125mg/week would need me to take an AI at all, because if you backtrack through threads, you will see that several have commented that maybe I don't need to take any AI at all.

In the absence of a doctor with more than two grey cells to rub together, I have to look for advice from people who have been there and done it.

OK, maybe it wasn't the right thing to do, but if I listened to my doctor(?) or endocrinologist(?), I would just lie down and die like a good elderly citizen should in these times of austerity and mass immigration.

[Baldur2630]

The only question I have now, I show much Arimidex should I take and for how long? Estradiol of 117 is pretty high, so I guess it's going to take quite a bit of Arimidex before it gets down again.

Has anyone else been this high and got any experience of the dose it needs?

I ordered some VITEX, I have Aromasin as well, but I don't think that's going to get my e2 down when it's so high. I certainly don't like Arimidex, but seems it's the best thing to get it down reasonable quickly.

[Baldur2630]

I received the VITEX. I also got Vitamin B6 and Vitamin E. As my E2 was so high (117), I decided to start by taking. FULL 1 mg Arimidex . It didn't make any difference. Two days later, I took another, still no difference. After another 2 days I took another. It made zero difference. I dropped my testosterone on Sundy to 100 mg. By then the Vit E abd Vitex were here. I've taken 1000 IU Vit E daily, and 100 mg, vitamin b6. 4 VITEX b❤️

I can't get another blood done until January. I found an article on symptoms of High and low E2, but there is very little difference between the symptoms!

I THINK that my e2 is still high or someone can maybe give me a clue as to what to look for to determine which, and perhaps what to do next.

[Lee_1978]

I must be ultra sensitive to Exemestane, because l crashed my E2 about three days into my first cycle administering 25mg ED, which l swiftly lowered as a result!

[Baldur2630]

I must be ultra sensitive to Exemestane, because l crashed my E2 about three days into my first cycle administering 25mg ED, which l swiftly lowered as a result!

Yes, but my question is, how does one definitively know what her your e2 is too high or two low.

Hunting around, I found an article which allegedly gives the symptoms of too high and too low e2. Sure they LOOKED different, but only because the word order and phraseology had been chanced for each.

The bottom line was that both sets of symptoms are more or less identical.

How can one say."My e2 is too high" or "My e2 Is too low"? Short of getting blood done every damn week or two.

[InternalFire]

Well, higher estrogen I believe result in gaining fat, greater body-tissue water retention, mental sensitivity etc emotional such as crying while watching some movie feeling too attached to the action in it, then again, too high estrogen could result in gyno developing - good idea of checking for lumps under nipples in the chest tissue, also nipple sensitivity... I guess that be important parts, but also I bet there are more symptoms... I believe having low-E WILL NOT get you GYNO, get your nipples grow or become sensitive, and you shouldn't cry or feel saddened watching titanic drown. I know low-E results in bad mood but being irritable low temper and feeling like shit doesnt mean you will cry like immature 5 year girl over the broken dolls. Just saying in to what I believe so, I may be wrong and I am open to suggestion/fixes

[Baldur2630]

Well, higher estrogen I believe result in gaining fat, greater body-tissue water retention, mental sensitivity etc emotional such as crying while watching some movie feeling too attached to the action in it, then again, too high estrogen could result in gyno developing - good idea of checking for lumps under nipples in the chest tissue, also nipple sensitivity... I guess that be important parts, but also I bet there are more symptoms... I believe having low-E WILL NOT get you GYNO, get your nipples grow or become sensitive, and you shouldn't cry or feel saddened watching titanic drown. I know low-E results in bad mood but being irritable low temper and feeling like shit doesnt mean you will cry like immature 5 year girl over the broken dolls. Just saying in to what I believe so, I may be wrong and I am open to suggestion/fixes

Even when my e2 was 117, I had no signs of gyro. I don't remember ever crying in my life, let alone at watching the Titanic go down, I usually find things like this hilarious. Emotions? What are they?

When I was 117 e2, I was having major problems sleeping, but I was falling asleep and feeling constantly tired during the day. My max lifts were still going up. I had no real problem getting an erection, but it was very flaccid. I had major problems trying to reach a climax, even masturbating.

After the Arimidex , it took just over a week before I started to be able to get a good nights rest. Erections are still flaccid, still problems reaching a climax. Weights going DOWN. This morning 50 kgs on seated military press on the smith machine, felt like a ton. I only did 5 reps. Week before last, I did 10 reps at 75 kgs.

[InternalFire]

Well, how about your iron/Vit-A/B12/zinc/magnesium/ supplementation? Also how is your diet? Ever tried ketogenic/low carb diet? Higher-carb/Sugars diet could be culprit raising estrogen levels too

PS: By any chance, are you mega-dosing Vitamin C??

[Baldur2630]

Well, how about your iron/Vit-A/B12/zinc/magnesium/ supplementation? Also how is your diet? Ever tried ketogenic/low carb diet? Higher-carb/Sugars diet could be culprit raising estrogen levels too

PS: By any chance, are you mega-dosing Vitamin C??

No, I don't take Vitamin C Supplement, maybe I should. I take 2,000 IU, vVitamin D3 daily, I take 100 mg B6. I take (now) VITEX 4 tabs every night, I take 1,000 IU Vitamin E. I also take a multi mineral tab daily.

I have a high protein diet (1.8 to 2.0 mg/kg), keep fats down to <30. Don't drink, don't smoke. Don't eat candies, when I get back to normal, my main vice is sex. I LIKE sex, better than candy or beer!

I have a feeling that I've gone from too much e2 to too little. I guess I just have to wait until my doc gets back from his vacation in January.

[InternalFire]

if 1000mg of vitC doesnt upset your stomach or sleep, it should be ok considering you are keeping yourself active, otherwise it could kill your hunger and drastically slow down your digestion.
VitD, I personally take 10.000IU ED, I read in few places that FDA is due to reinstating new RDA for VitD as ~5000IU, some read here too but its different source: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0317122458.htm
and if taking VitD to boost your body's absorption of it you must supplement with good form of magnesium as Magnesium Orotate or Citrate. I supplement with both, yet I dont know if there's a difference, but to my believe while taking Orotate with Citrate - orotate may help absorb citrate better, and also taking VitD+Magnesium you will have to look in to your diet ensure you get plenty of potasium daily, as magnesium can potentially and rapidly cause potassium deficiency and result at first in sensitive teeth or other symptoms.
I know B6 has some correlation with causing havoc on CNS and other issues, you could look in to that too. For your own good interest, I would recommend trying ketogenic diet, high protein high fat and low carbs, you need that cholesterol being active male
VitE has corelation in lowering test levels thus may be raising E levels, yet I try to avoid both as I used to use them and I had problems, since changed my regimen, it seemed to help.

ALSO:

I was recently reading ton of info about megadosing VitD3 and VitK , yet its hard to find strong vitK as all are dosed super low in hundreds of mcg only,and have found only few that are ~2.2mg-5mg some are called life extension others are called carlson , you can dig them up on USA ebay, yet these are the best find . Spare some time and draw yourself to reading on this topic, may be to some real help