Why not 300mgs a week of Test E instead of 500mgs?

**wastedmuscle** · 09-11-2015, 01:58 PM

I have been reading so much and there has been a bunch of conflicting opinions. My question, why not run pharm grade cycle of Test-E at 300 mgs per week (150 mgs two times a week) instead of the stickied recommended dosage of 500mgs per week?

I would assume for a first time cycle from a very dialed in person that 300 mgs of pharm grade test e would yield great results with less sides than 500 mgs. I want to avoid the sides as best as possible while being reasonable with my expectations. I am also not looking to pack on 700 pounds of muscle.

Why not a cycle of 300 mgs of test e cycle for 10 weeks? I would like to be very conservative. I have access to a doctor prescribing the test e, hcg , armidex, tami., and clomid.

I am mid 30s, 190s in weight, 6 foot 3. Lifting for many years and have definitely come close to peaking naturally.

Fire away.

**RangerDanger830** · 09-11-2015, 02:42 PM

Out of curiosity why 300mg?

500mg is a reasonably safe dose with no serious side effects usually since it's easily managed. I'm all for using the minimum dose to get the job done. However, 300mg shuts you down just the same as 500mg so why not go bigger since it's still deemed reasonably safe?

I've never actually preached higher doses before until now but I feel 500mg is a good dose.

**212OlympiaBound** · 09-11-2015, 02:48 PM

Most UGL's and chinese powder sources are only 30-60% dosed. You may think you are running 500, but could actually not be shooting much more than 150. This is a huge reason, in my opinion.

If you are sure you have pharma grade, you could get away with great results from 300; however, like the guy above me implied, why not go 500.

**Mr.BB** · 09-11-2015, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by RangerDanger830

500mg is a reasonably safe dose with no serious side effects usually since it's easily managed. I'm all for using the minimum dose to get the job done. However, 300mg shuts you down just the same as 500mg so why not go bigger since it's still deemed reasonably safe?

^^^This... sums it up nicely

**wastedmuscle** · 09-11-2015, 04:59 PM

Alright, so I am getting actual pharm grade test ((please note I have diagnosed (several physicians) condition that allows me to be prescribed)). Does this make a difference if I run just 300 mgs per week such it is such a high grade of quality? I realize I get shut down either way but I also am not looking for extra sides, nor am I seeking to have an enormous gain on cycle.

Not sure if this is a rule break (I hope not), but is $900 out of pocket a reasonable cost from my doctor for my script cost from compounding pharmacy?

2 vials of 10 ml of 200 cyp
2 vials of 6,000 iu of hcg
needles etc
Anastrozole 20 1 mg tablets (splitting these to smaller doses)
Clomid 36 tablets 50 mg
Tamox 36 tablets 10 mg

**mike198** · 09-11-2015, 08:28 PM

If it's human grade test, you will grow like a weed on 300 mg/week (provided of course that you have a solid natty background with heavy lifting of compound movements and have your nutrition dialed in). I did 260 mg week for my first cycle this summer and the gains were spectacular. I am pumped to do my next cycle in January. Taking it to 300 this time. 500 will give you more gains, but risk for sides goes up as I'm sure you know.

**Oki-Des** · 09-12-2015, 09:31 AM

One misconception with steroids is that people do not pack on 700lbs of muscle. I know you were being sarcastic, but if you take 500mg of test, packing on 7 pounds is probably more realistic. Those pro's you see not only have incredible genetics to begin with, they also are so dedicated to their profession in so many ways; including perfect diets, extreme work ethics towards their goals and amazing dedication. Even if it were simply hard to look like them, most of us still probably would.
I think when average joe's take steroids for the first time they are probably disappointed in how little they gain. But, for those who are already fairly dedicated and already understand how hard it is to build solid muscle, then the additional gains from steroids are more appreciated.

**wastedmuscle** · 09-12-2015, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by mike198

If it's human grade test, you will grow like a weed on 300 mg/week (provided of course that you have a solid natty background with heavy lifting of compound movements and have your nutrition dialed in). I did 260 mg week for my first cycle this summer and the gains were spectacular. I am pumped to do my next cycle in January. Taking it to 300 this time. 500 will give you more gains, but risk for sides goes up as I'm sure you know.

This is what I am thinking. It is not like I am new to this bodybuilding game. I have been natty bodybuilding for many years (not competing no interest). I peaked in my 20s. Now I am in my mid 30s with a moderately good diet and I train like a madman. The gym is my peace in life.

**wastedmuscle** · 09-12-2015, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Oki-Des

One misconception with steroids is that people do not pack on 700lbs of muscle. I know you were being sarcastic, but if you take 500mg of test, packing on 7 pounds is probably more realistic. Those pro's you see not only have incredible genetics to begin with, they also are so dedicated to their profession in so many ways; including perfect diets, extreme work ethics towards their goals and amazing dedication. Even if it were simply hard to look like them, most of us still probably would.
I think when average joe's take steroids for the first time they are probably disappointed in how little they gain. But, for those who are already fairly dedicated and already understand how hard it is to build solid muscle, then the additional gains from steroids are more appreciated.

I expect roughly 5-7 lbs or muscle that is retained long after cycle with additional benefits to some atrophied muscle from surgeries. Nothing major. But, 5 lbs of muscle is a lot of freaking muscle to pack on in 10 weeks. That is a big difference.

**ab037** · 09-12-2015, 10:23 AM

900 sounds high imo.
On trt its 100 a vial both test and hcg both pharma.
Ugl is half the cost.

**wastedmuscle** · 09-12-2015, 11:13 AM

please read the rules, no price talk

**Sir Lifts A Lot** · 09-12-2015, 11:31 AM

PCT and Estro Blockers from chemical research company might be cheaper.

**ab037** · 09-12-2015, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Sir Lifts A Lot

PCT and Estro Blockers from chemical research company might be cheaper.

Def site sponsor is good stuff. Ordered many times over the years.

**Bonaparte** · 09-12-2015, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by 212OlympiaBound

Most UGL's and chinese powder sources are only 30-60% dosed.

Where did you come up with this nonsense?

**Chicagotarsier** · 09-12-2015, 08:33 PM

350 test per week is the maintaining dose to NOT lose muscle over genetic natural level (per Austinite) and I find it as spot on for my genetics.

500 is like the bare minimum dose to get over the natural production hump and raise IGF and other bodily functions adequately to see a decent level of gain. 500 is not recommended because it is the best dose for you to gain muscle, it is the number to allow you to START to learn how to use AIs and PCT without too many sides. Get dialed in at 500 and then move to where you think you need to be and see if you are right. From the majority of literature (published) from bodybuilders and doctors doing lab work it seems 2000 test per week is the absolute high mark before diminishing returns begin to be standard. I am not talking bloggers but published documents. The bottom end of this is 500 per week.

Care is taken so you see the sides and learn how to manage them. I can tell you as a matter of a fact that controlling your estrogen is the second most important item to learn about steroids . Until you understand your body do not go over 500. Most important is RBC and HCT hits from test levels. I have to give 1L once a month to prevent HCT going over 55%.

Learn your sides and progress. Good luck.

**wastedmuscle** · 09-16-2015, 10:32 PM

Chicagostar,

Why have so many before us had such great success with a lower dosage? I have read the latest mantra of 500 mg per week for a beginner but we have old school bodybuilders such as Ric Dresdin stating that 250 mg was plenty back in the day. Seems like dosage recommendations continue to get higher and higher but this goes against the less may often be more mantra. In this case, a beginner may very well see great benefits from an old school test cycle and his organs will be thankful later. Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Chicagotarsier

350 test per week is the maintaining dose to NOT lose muscle over genetic natural level (per Austinite) and I find it as spot on for my genetics.

500 is like the bare minimum dose to get over the natural production hump and raise IGF and other bodily functions adequately to see a decent level of gain. 500 is not recommended because it is the best dose for you to gain muscle, it is the number to allow you to START to learn how to use AIs and PCT without too many sides. Get dialed in at 500 and then move to where you think you need to be and see if you are right. From the majority of literature (published) from bodybuilders and doctors doing lab work it seems 2000 test per week is the absolute high mark before diminishing returns begin to be standard. I am not talking bloggers but published documents. The bottom end of this is 500 per week.

Care is taken so you see the sides and learn how to manage them. I can tell you as a matter of a fact that controlling your estrogen is the second most important item to learn about steroids . Until you understand your body do not go over 500. Most important is RBC and HCT hits from test levels. I have to give 1L once a month to prevent HCT going over 55%.

Learn your sides and progress. Good luck.