is DA needed?

[BeeStung]

Ive been asking a lot of questions on a cycle im still thinking about getting on and ive been doing research and i read about DA's being needed for nor19s. has anyone ever used them and is it needed or just recommended?

[jimmyinkedup]

I recommend to have one on hand just in case. My personal preference is Pramipexole, some prefer Caber.
The primary precaution is and should always be managing estrogen. The reason I mention this is that often by properly managing e2 you will find that prolactin is managed to a degree as well. In many cases managing e2 manages prolactin so well that a dopamine agonist is not necessary. You shouldn't use one unless you are experiencing symptoms or signs of elevated prolactin and blood work shows it elevated. It's Not a good idea to use one if it is not necessary.

[BeeStung]

so at what point do you know you need it? im going to be on arimdex at .5mg EOD

[clarky.]

Copied from aust.

First thing... there is no such thing as "prolactin-induced" gynecomastia . I've heard this one too many times and later in this segment you will understand why. Now, prolactin is another sex hormone and is secreted by the pituitary gland in your brain. Although it's found in both males and females, it's main purpose is for milk production for females. The fact is, males have no use for prolactin that we know of today. Why, God, why?? Anyway, while low levels are not harmful, high levels certainly are. So let's take a look at the concerns with higher than normal prolactin levels in men...

Effects of High Prolactin Levels in Men:

- Adverse Testicular Interference
- Lowers natural testosterone
- Lower sperm count (to infertility levels)
- long term elevation can cause erectile dysfunction (sometimes short term)
- Low Libido
- Breast tenderness
- Male lactation
- Low ejaculate volume

19-Nortestosterone steroid such as nandrolone and Trenbolone can cause prolactin levels to become elevated MAINLY with the presence of excess estrogen. They are NOT a direct cause of high prolactin. While using prolactin inhibiting drugs will resolve issues, your first line of defense is controlling estrogen, as elevated estrogen can boost the effect of prolactin increase. It's not uncommon to prevent prolactin increase with the use of an AI. But the doses of 19-Nor steroids today, may prove that is somewhat ineffective. Leading to the necessity of having a secondary (and direct) compound to combat the effects.

The way it works is entirely complicated and I couldn't even think of a way to put it in laymans terms. But in short, 19-Nor interaction with the estrogen receptors will boost prolactin secretion. This is why it's important to control estrogen first, and prolactin second. Also why I recommend that you have a secondary combat drug "on hand" and in some cases, used on cycle. You might wonder why I say "on hand", since I earlier said that low prolactin is not harmful. Well, these drugs have some fairly heavy side effects and if not used properly can really affect your progress on cycle. So it's OK to wait until needed for the sake of sanity. But I want to emphasize this again... if you have high prolactin and/or lactating, it's a near 100% confirmation that you failed to control your estrogen levels.

How To Control Prolactin

To control prolactin, or elevated prolactin, we use drugs that activate dopamine. Dopamine is a chemical launched by cells in the brain with the purpose of signaling nerve cells. So these drugs we're looking at are dopamine agonists. There are several things that affect prolactin but dopamine is the dominant one that makes the overall difference.

Dopamine works with the pituitary. They're friends, you see. But sometimes the pituitary gets a little excited and out of control, so Dopamine pays a visit to the pituitary and binds to the Dopamine receptors and slows prolactin production down to a reasonable level. This is all done with internal communication. What a nice friend to have. Make sense, folks? What a spectacular system we have. Even more reason to respect your body.

Now that we know how prolactin elevates and how to fix the problem, let's have a look at common drugs used for prolactin control. I'm getting kind of bored with this article so I'll keep this short since I still have to cover progesterone.

Common "Anti-Prolactin" (dopamine agonist) drugs available:

- Pramipexole (Mirapex)
- Cabergoline (Dostinex)
- Bromocriptine (Parlodel)
- Pergolide (Permax)

Informative Data On Mentioned Inhibitors:

*** Pramipexole (Mirapex)

- Half Life: 8 hours
- Recommended dose: 0.25 mg Every Night. Take right before you fall asleep. If after 3 days you can handle the dose just fine, increase to 0.5 mg. Then again to 0.75 and finally to 1 mg. Rarely more than 1 mg is needed.
- Common side effects: Nausea, dizziness, vomiting, insomnia, constipation, confusion, visual disturbance, hallucinations, headaches, frequent urination, congestion, achiness.
- Drug interactions: Do not use alongside other dopamine agonists. Avoid antihistamines altogether as the combination will have adverse effects on your central nervous system.


*** Cabergoline(Dostinex)

- Half Life: 65 hours
- Recommended dose: 0.25 mg Every Third Day. If after 4 doses you feel good, increase to 0.5mg every third day.
- Common side effects: Same as Prami for the most part, but can also cause anxiety and compulsive behavior.
- Drug interactions: Avoid anorexiants (appetite suppressors) as the combo can cause severe levels of serotonin. also avoid other dopamine agonists. Avoid Codeine because the combination renders the drug ineffective and lowers blood pressure too much.

[BeeStung]

thanks for the help. that really helped to clarify things

[TheTaxMan]

Ive never used a DA yet

HCG and an AI on cycle seems to serve me well.

I do have Caber in my stash though, just incase