Is anyone else tired of.....

[PTbyJason]

bump

[BigGreen]

Now who is going to take claim to the ever famous Winny question? I don't want an answer of Yes, you can drink Winny. Let's give these newbies the science behind it, so they know that this isn't just any other board out there.

Well, I'll take a stab at it that will at least lay a foundation for some more knowledgable guys to build upon:

Q: I've been told you can "drink" the injectable form of winstrol , how is this possible?

A: Winstrol, both in its oral and injectable form, retains the property of being 17-alpha-alkinated (17aa), which essentially means that the integrity of the drug is not "damaged" upon passing through the preliminary stages of the digestive system on its way to the liver wherein it is processed and subsequently "distributed" after being broken down by the liver. The fact that the drug's 17aa property is retained in the injectable form allows one to simply "drink" the compound and, PROVIDED THAT IT IS SUSPENDED IN WATER AND NOT OIL, garner the drug's effects without the inconvenience of the every day injections necessitated by a fast-acting compound such as winny. The same holds true for injectable versions of other 17-alpha-allkinated drugs that have been suspended in water such as the various liquid dianabol compounds. While there is no question that ingesting the drug as opposed to injecting it results in the user garnering the intended benefits of the drug, there is some debate as to whether the effectiveness is decreased to any degree by utilzing this particular approach to administration. Many users recommend a slight increase in dosage (with 25% increase approximately representing the recommended increase in most cases) should one "drink" the winny as opposed to injecting. This is, however, largely anecdotal as it applies to human usage, and each individual user must conduct the appropriate research on the subject matter and act accordingly. As a means to mitigate this problem, a popular method is to inject the compound every-other-day and orally ingest it each other day. In this manner, the problem of frequent injections is effectively circumvented, but the EOD injections allow the trainer's mind to be at ease with regards to the purported (slighlty) diminished effects of ingesting the compound orally.

[PTbyJason]

thanks big green, I added that one too.

[FedSki]

LOL, I think I said in 6 lines what BigGreen said in about thirty. I'm not knocking it - some people like to read. Personally I want to know the facts in two minutes not 15.

[BigGreen]

LOL, I think I said in 6 lines what BigGreen said in about thirty. I'm not knocking it - some people like to read. Personally I want to know the facts in two minutes not 15.

Oh, I hadn't even realized you'd written one out...my apologies. However, much like you want the facts in two minutes, I don't feel comfortable making a decision or going forth with research unless there is a little more to what I've read...thus the reason why I included a bit more of an explanation as to the whole 17aa thing as well as the drinking versus injecting efficiency debate; I'm approaching these as if the individual reading them is fairly new to the scene and not all that familiar with many of the things we take for granted.

[FedSki]

That's cool BG. I too mentioned the 17aa issue and the drinking v injecting debate.

For the record I respect your knowledge and the way you communicate. I also do shed loads of research and read everything I can before making a decision. I often play Devil's advocate too to make sure I there is a full and open debate over issues I think are important.

And when I communicate my knowledge to others I like to keep it short and sweet (without missing out important facts).

I guess you and I just have different writing styles.

Anyway keep up the good work buddy.

[BigGreen]

Q: Okay, there's no question that the consensus is "oral only" cycles are not a good idea; would you mind telling me a little more as to why?

A: The general ineffectiveness of oral only cycles essentially stems from two factors: 1. The length and duration of the cycle is necessary limited (if you're sensible) by the fact that ALL oral steroids are liver toxic (a necessary effect of their being able to pass through the digestive system intact), AND, 2. That same liver toxicity generally prevents "stacking" of any kind, as additional oral steroids will also add a correlative effect to liver stress.

With regards to the first factor, there does exist some debate as to the time issue. It seems to be rather fashionable in some countries (Sweden comes to mind as a particular example in which this seems to be the case) to run comparatively light and relatively short cycles as a means to make slow but steady gains over time that, proponents of this philosophy believe, are imminently more "keepable" than the dramatic gains made over a 15 week blitz. Whether or not this is the case, it is important to note that very few, if any, of the individuals subscribing to this approach advocate oral only cycle as a means of achieving such gains. Nevertheless, with most orals remaining "safe" only for four weeks (six in some instances according to consensus and collective experience...ie, winny or anavar ) if you are looking to do an oral only cycle, it will likely be limited to four weeks in duration; even the "short cycle" proponents, for the most part, do not advocate such rapidly completed cycles.

Turning to the second issue, the toxicity of oral steroids (derived from their being 17aa in the event that this is not clear) more often than not necessarily prevents their being "stacked". This means that you will be running a single compound cycle in 90% of the cases should you value your health in the least. While there are sensible single compound cycles that can be run with fantastic gains, these are almost always based upon one of the testosterone esters (something you simply aren't going to find in oral form). So, by running an oral only cycle, not only will you be limited to the use of one compound, but that one compound will not be even remotely close to the ideal choice should one elect to run a single compound cycle. You are now facing head-on the worst of both worlds: a cycle of minimal duration with a compound of (relative to other options) minimal effectiveness.

To qualify these statements, however, there are several anecdotal instances of individuals making respectable and, more important, keepable gains off of oral only cycles. It must be noted that these are, by and large, exceptions to the rule and it is generally thought (though it may not be the case 100% of the time) that those making such gains may have very well been significantly below their genetic potential and would have likely made such gains eventually; they were simply hurried along by the use of the oral compound. More important is what injecting, or rather a fear of injecting, represents. Oral steroids are just as illegal as injectables with perhaps, it can be argued (and quite convincingly), a greater potential to cause bodily harm. Accordingly, if you are going to run the risk of breaking the law in either case, doesn't it make sense to choose a route that not only has a greater potential to assist you in attaining your goals, but is able to do so with a decreased propensity for causing bodily harm?

[caturpilar]

I have read this thread and it seems to be geared more to........um........gear. Here's probably a dumb idea. I don't really plan on using AS, but maybe a FAQ for each forum, for common questions. I personlly like to read different points of view, from different people. I'll read AR forums for hours sometimes, however there are lazy ones. Maybe a FAQ for each forum like Such (only an example) the diet forum could have Q. How much protien is in 1 lb of steak. I know thats a broad question, but just an ex. Sorry to bust in here. But good thread.

[BigGreen]

Caturpillar,

I think you're right on in what you say, and I do hope to see your idea implemented soon. However, and he can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I think the original intention of this improved faq was to (hopefully) spare the mods, vets and frequent posters the burden of replying to the same questions over and over again. As the steroid questions comprise most of these over-asked questions, I imagine Jason so this as the ideal place to start. That being said, however, I can think of nothing better that would improve the quality and rep of this board than the eventual implementation of a VERY comprehensive FAQ regarding all aspects of training...something I imagine will also become part of solidmuscle as that project moves along.

[jammergsxr]

Q.How do I use Fina with DMSO ?
A.Each pellet is 20mgs.,after deciding what dosage you want,Crush the pellets into a powder.Draw one cc of dmso,heat half cc in microwave for a few seconds then add fina and mix till dissolved.Once fina is mixed add the other half of dmso.Before you put this mixture on you(I suggest tops of your feet)scrub the area with an anti-bacterial soap,remember what ever gets into the dmso gets into you!Once you apply the mix,cover with saran wrap then an ace bandage and go to bed.

[mmaximus25]

Q. Can Gynecomastia be treated?

A. Yes, depending on when you begin to notice the lump. The gland size can be significantly reduced in many individuals, although you must realize that if gyno has set in you may reduce the size of the mammary gland but it is most likely permanent and surgery may be the best treatment in removing the enlarged gland. Your best bet in decreasing the size is to increase your dosage of Nolvadex to at least 40 to 60 mg. Then begin a treatment of Dostinex, Bromocriptine or Dopergin. The most expensive to least expensive is Dostinex being the most then Dopergin begin the least.
If you've caught this lump fairly quickly a 3 to 4 week treatment can prove very satisfactory... If you've been living with gyno for some time you should consider cycling treatments of either. One way is a 3-4 week treatment then lay off for 3-4 weeks but always keeping a build up of Nolvadex running through out a treatment period into an off period. Results may be even more satifactory if combined with an anti aromotizer like liquidex, armidex or proviron . (“I’ve reduced the gyno in my left pec from a quarter size lump to a pea size with Dopergin .05mg 4 times a day and nolvadex 40mg a day”…mmaximus25)


Q. What is Dostinex?

A. http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/Dat...ostinextab.htm
DOSTINEX is a dopaminergic ergoline derivative with potent and long-lasting Prolactin-lowering activity. It acts by direct stimulation of the D2-dopamine receptors on pituitary lactotrophs, thus inhibiting Prolactin secretion. In rats the compound decreases prolactin secretion at oral doses of 3-25mcg/ml, and in vitro at a concentration of 45pg/ml. In addition DOSTINEX exerts a central dopaminergic effect via D2 receptor stimulation at oral doses higher than those effective in lowering serum Prolactin levels. The long-lasting Prolactin-lowering effects of DOSTINEX is probably due to its long persistence in the target organ as suggested by the slow elimination of total radioactivity from the pituitary after a single oral dose in rats (t1/2 of approximately 60 hours).

Q. What is Bromocriptine?

A. http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/Dat...riptinetab.htm
Bromocriptine is a brominated ergot derivative that functions as a dopamine D2 receptor agonist and a dopamine D1 receptor antagonist. It imposes a direct dopaminergic effect on cells located within the basal ganglia, mesolimbic system and hypothalamus. It does not possess the uterotonic and vasoconstrictive properties associated with other ergot preparations.
Bromocriptine specifically inhibits the synthesis and secretion of prolactin from the anterior pituitary gland by dopaminergic stimulation of pituitary prolactin cells. Amenorrhoea, galactorrhoea and other endocrine processes associated with hyperprolactinaemia are consequently returned to physiological levels of activity. Bromocriptine also enhances the release of gonadotrophin and gonadal steroids that are suppressed in hyperprolactinaemia. Preclinical studies have reported that bromocriptine decreases dopamine turnover in the median eminence and dopaminergic tubero-infundibular region of the hypothalamus which may further regulate the synthesis and secretion of prolactin.
Bromocriptine reduces the elevated levels of growth hormone (GH) in acromegaly and may alleviate the clinical symptoms and glucose intolerance presented in this condition.
The dopaminemimetic activity of bromocriptine in the striatum may be responsible for the beneficial effects observed in selected cases of Parkinsons Disease.

Q. What is Dopergin?
A. http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/Dat...opergintab.htm
DOPERGIN displays dopaminergic and, associated with these prolactin-reducing properties. The active substance lisuride has a pronounced affinity for dopamine receptors in the striatum and pituitary.
• Parkinsonism
In Parkinsonism DOPERGIN replaces the missing dopamine. It improves or eliminates the reduced locomotion (hypokinesia, bradykinesia, and akinesia), rigor and tremor. The combination of DOPERGIN with L-dopa-containing preparations is particularly effective and allows low dosages of both active substances. The two substances complement each other in their mechanism of action, since L-dopa requires intact dopamine neurons to be effective, while DOPERGIN directly stimulates postsynaptic dopamine receptors. By combining L-dopa-containing preparations with DOPERGIN, fluctuations of locomotion and dyskinesia, which occur frequently in long-term L-dopa therapy, are favorably influenced or their occurrence retarded.
• Endocrine indications
Mammary gland function is controlled essentially by prolactin. The prolactin inhibitor DOPERGIN is therefore suitable for suppressing the normal production and flow of milk (primary ablactation) and for improving pathological states of the mammary gland (galactorrhoea).
An elevated prolactin level also inhibits the function of the gonads. Amenorrhoea and infertility of the woman resulting from these conditions can therefore be treated with DOPERGIN if they are based on an elevated prolactin level.
The above-mentioned disorders can be caused by prolactin-producing pituitary tumors. In macroadenomas, DOPERGIN not only leads to an improvement of the clinical symptoms, but frequently also to a marked diminution in the size of the tumor.
In acromegaly, the over-production of growth hormone can be favorably influenced in some patients. Consequently, DOPERGIN can be employed here when other forms of therapy are not feasible or are inadequate.

Q. What dosages should I take of Dostinex, Bromocriptine or Dopergin to treat Gynecomastia?
A. Dostinex can range from .125 to .25mg once or twice a day. Bromocriptine can be taken most effective from 1.25 to 2.5mg two to three times daily. Dopergin can be taken from .05 to .2 mg two to three times daily. To avoid most side effects the smallest amount in dosage is recommended with all three to begin with and an increase in dosage every 5-7 days afterward. These medications should be taken with food but nothing acidic. If side effects such as nausea or headaches occur bring the dosage down until symptoms subside. Some may have problems with one or all but can find that the largest individual dose can be broken up in to four doses per day, alleviating most side effects, and carry that dose through out treatment...

[PTbyJason]

I have read this thread and it seems to be geared more to........um........gear. Here's probably a dumb idea. I don't really plan on using AS, but maybe a FAQ for each forum, for common questions. I personlly like to read different points of view, from different people. I'll read AR forums for hours sometimes, however there are lazy ones. Maybe a FAQ for each forum like Such (only an example) the diet forum could have Q. How much protien is in 1 lb of steak. I know thats a broad question, but just an ex. Sorry to bust in here. But good thread.

You are absolutely right bro. In fact I started a thread in the Supplement Questions board and will gladly do the same in every board sometime today.

[PTbyJason]

got them all guys, thanks again.

FedSki, BigGreen I have a couple of Q & A that are repeats, but as you see from your comparisons above, different people understand things differently. So everything helps.

[BUYLONGTERM]

Q. What does ED and EOD mean?

A. ED=Everyday
A. EOD=Every other day

[mmaximus25]

I had to edit my first post J I saw the beginning sentence wasn’t very descriptive and there were grammar issues.

I pulled this from a favorite site @ classical sciences in biology section because it would take to long to write... I’m not sure if you prefer summaries to full definition... Can you clarify... cause otherwise I'm not sure the symptom part is necessary and only the definition is useful... my thinking is they could look up the drawn out definitions elsewhere... I also love data sheets but I would like input as to what might be prefered... I dont mean to be anal but it seems like above you had two bros offer the same info but one more descriptive and the other summerized... I happen to like descriptive becuase it might answer yet another question.... But still.... very good Idea Bro


Q: What is Gynecomastia ?

A: http://911papers.virtualave.net/clas...necomastia.htm
Gynecomastia is a common disease of the male breast where there is a benign glandular enlargement of that breast at some time in the male's life. It usually consists of the appearance of a flat pad of glandular tissue beneath a nipple, which becomes tender at the same time. The development may be unilateral or bilateral. There is rarely a continued growth of the breast tissue; ordinarily the process is of brief duration and stops short of the production of permanent enlargement of the breast.

Q: What are the natural and drug induced Causes of Gynecomastia

A: A great number of patients who suffer from this disease have a disturbance in the proper ratio of androgen and estrogen levels. The normal ratio of the two hormones in plasma is approximately 100:1. "The etiology of gynecomastia in patients with a known documented cause appears to be related to increased estrogen stimulation, decreased testosterone levels , or some alteration of the estrogens and androgen so that the androgen-estrogen ratio is decreased"(Williams 373). From this information it was discovered that there is also a lower ratio of weaker adrenal androgens (delta 4-androstenedione and dehydroepiandrosterone) found in youths with this disease. It was once believed that there was an imbalance in the ratios of testosterone to estrogen or estradiol, but this is now known to be untrue.
There are three areas the can be attributed to the cause of gynecomastia: physiologic, pathologic and pharmacological. "Enlargement of the male breast can be a normal physiologic phenomenon at certain stages of life or the result of several pathologic states."(Isselbacher, 2037)
In the case of physiologic gynecomastia the disease can occur in a newborn baby, at puberty or at any time in a man's life. In the newborn, transient enlargement of the breast is due to the action of maternal and/or placental estrogens. The enlargement usually disappears within a few weeks. Adolescent gynecomastia is common during puberty with the onset at the median age of 14. It is often asymmetrical and frequently tender. It regresses so that by the age of 20 only a small number of men have palpable vestiges of gynecomastia in one or both the breasts. Gynecomastia of aging also occurs in otherwise healthy men. Forty percent or more of aged men have gynecomastia. One explanation is the increase in age in the conversion of androgens to estrogens in extra-
Glandular tissues. Drug therapy and abnormal liver functioning can also be causes of gynecomastia in older men.
When the disease is pathologic the patient can have increased estrogen secretions, increased conversion of androgens to estrogens or decreased androgen activity due to a failure in protein receptors. Increased estrogen secretions are found in such diseases and disorders as Hermaphroditism, Kleinfelter's syndrome, congenital adrenal hyperlasia, and adrenal carcinoma or testicular tumors. In the second case some examples are adrenal carcinoma, liver disorders, malnutrition and thyroidtoxicosis. Decreased androgen activity can be found in complete testicular feminization, incomplete testicular feminization and Reifenstein's syndrome.
Many drugs can cause gynecomastia by several mechanisms. The drugs can either act directly as estrogens or cause an increase in plasma estrogen levels. "Boys and young men are particularly sensitive to estrogen, and can develop gynecomastia after the use of dermal ointments containing estrogen or after the ingestion of milk or meat from estrogen-treated animals."(Isselbacher, 2038) Some examples of drugs that may have cause gynecomastia include Cannabinoids (methane and marijuana), Psychotropics (pheno-thiazine, butyrophenone and reserpine), Antihypertensives (reserpine, alpha-methyldopa and spironolactone), Cardiac (digitalis), Gastrointestinal (cimetidine, metoclopramide and domperidone), Antituburculous (isoniazid), Cytoxic (cyclophospha-mide, mustine, vincristine and mitotane) and Hormonal (sex steroids , gonadotropins and antiandrogens). Use of these drugs, however, will rarely cause gynecomastia. In some instances, the feminization is due to effects of drugs on liver functions.

Q: What are some of the signs and symptoms

A: There are very few signs and symptoms that are associated with this disease. Signs may appear at any time in a male's life, although the most common time of onset is during puberty. At the first indication of the disease the patient will feel pain and tender-
ness in the breast area due to the rapid development of the breast. The breasts grow because of the enlargement of the glandular tissue. "The concentric arrangement of the connective tissue around the ducts is a characteristic feature of the active phase of gynecomastia."(Delany, 67) The enlargement of the breast is usually bilateral but some cases have unilateral enlargement. In the case of unilateral enlargement, "Indurations, fixation, or bloody discharge should raise the possibility of carcinoma."(Wyngaarden, 1450) Carcinoma is a cancerous growth of the epithelial tissues.
It may be hard to distinguish true breast tissue from masses of adipose tissue without true enlargement (lipomastia). In such cases, a real case of gynecomastia can be distinguished by mammography or by sonography.
Early gynecomastia is characterized by "proliferation of both the fibroblastic stroma and the duct system, which elongates, buds, and duplicates. As the disease progresses, fibrosis and hyalinization are associated with the regression of epithelial proliferation." Eventually the number of ducts decreases, resolution occurs by reduction in size of epithelial content leaving temporary hyaline bands behind. (Isselbacher, 2037)

[trimunex]

I'm bumping this back up to save some Bros a lot of time on question answering.

9

[Archangel230]

A great Faq section. I'm going to bump this thread back to the top.

[FedSki]

Q. Can my girlfriend get pregnant while I'm taking AAS?

A. Yes. AAS reduce the number and quality (mobility) of the sperm produced but AAS don't shut down production enitrely. Research has been carried out to see if Testosterone supplementation works as a male contraceptive but it was found to be an unreliable method. If you don't want a pregnancy then use another form of contraception while taking AAS. If you do want a family then it's best to wait until after your AAS cycle and until your body has fully recovered and your sperm count has returned to normal.

[FedSki]

Bugger.

Just typed a massive Q and A posting that contained the three questions . . .

1. How do I prepare my injection and inject myself?
2. I'm scared of injecting, what do I do?
3. When is the best time to inject?

But before I came to post it my Explorer crashed and I lost the lot. I might get around to typing them in again but if someone else wants a go then you're welcome to chip in.

[PTbyJason]

Got 'em all.

mmaximus25, which one did you edit? I couldn't figure it out.

This thing is looking pretty impressive in my opinion. We are hitting a lot of subjects.

I'm sorry about the luck FedSki, I've been there before too.

[mmaximus25]

Sorry bro I might have changed it before you got to it. I only changed the first Answer to be more grammatically correct... It was my first post about...


Q. Can Gynecomastia be treated?

A. Yes, depending on when you begin to notice the lump. The gland size can be significantly reduced in many individuals, although you must realize that if gyno has set in you may reduce the size of the mammary gland but it is most likely permanent and surgery may be the best treatment in removing the enlarged gland. Your best bet in decreasing the size is to increase your dosage of Nolvadex to at least 40 to 60 mg. Then begin a treatment of Dostinex, Bromocriptine or Dopergin. The most expensive to least expensive is Dostinex being the most then Dopergin begin the least.
If you've caught this lump fairly quickly a 3 to 4 week treatment can prove very satisfactory... If you've been living with gyno for some time you should consider cycling treatments of either. One way is a 3-4 week treatment then lay off for 3-4 weeks but always keeping a build up of Nolvadex running through out a treatment period into an off period. Results may be even more satifactory if combined with an anti aromotizer like liquidex, armidex or proviron . (“I’ve reduced the gyno in my left pec from a quarter size lump to a pea size with Dopergin .05mg 4 times a day and nolvadex 40mg a day”…mmaximus25)

[hoss827]

Heh...I've always liked the one, I wanna bulk and cut at the same time, how do I do it? ...uhh, YOU CANT!

[Da Bull]

Heh...I've always liked the one, I wanna bulk and cut at the same time, how do I do it? ...uhh, YOU CANT!

hoss go back to the lounge were you belong instead of bumping up old threads

[bermich]

NO NO. I like the one: My buddy had a shot of Deca and Test cyp and other esthers in it. Question is, should I inject it or would it be a waste?

[FedSki]

PT did this FAQ ever get published? If so I'd like to read it, especially seeing as I contributed some (possibly) useful material.

[jim-bol]

dont ever put your real name on an incoming illegal package put the peoples name who lived there before or keep mail that has been sent to your place wrongly addresed thats enough to put doubt in any prosecutors name -in my country the mailman knocks on your door if you dont open the door he leaves the box on your front door if its the cops they knock to they get a signature then they raid your place within the hour -dont open the door for a few minutes if its the post man he ll leave the box and go if its the cops they will keep knocking -finally open the door tell them we get mail for them all the time show them the pile of letters -you have lost your product -but you wont get raided -always use the triangle theory get a friend to recieve or send the money never do both yourself

[PTbyJason]

PT did this FAQ ever get published? If so I'd like to read it, especially seeing as I contributed some (possibly) useful material.

yeah bro, It's all in the FAQ section (look at the button at the top of the board).