never getting off test and having kids??????????

im thinking about starting my first cycle soon but im almost 24 and im gonna def try to get my wife pregnant before she turns 30 so my question here is how hard is it to get your girl preggo after running gear for years.. also is there any point in in doing cycles? why not just stay on a moderate dose of test like 500 mg of test year round and maybe some dbol here and there... I see these IFBB pros and stuff who are obviously running crazy amounts of gear and they still have kids but I know everyone is different.. I don't mind being infertile I just want to be able to one day settle down and have kids

Is shouldn't be that hard to get her pregnant...if your having trouble,I'm a decent guy and ill help a chap out!

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Originally Posted by zejj

im thinking about starting my first cycle soon but im almost 24 and im gonna def try to get my wife pregnant before she turns 30 so my question here is how hard is it to get your girl preggo after running gear for years.. also is there any point in in doing cycles? why not just stay on a moderate dose of test like 500 mg of test year round and maybe some dbol here and there... I see these IFBB pros and stuff who are obviously running crazy amounts of gear and they still have kids but I know everyone is different.. I don't mind being infertile I just want to be able to one day settle down and have kids

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Is this a sick joke? You are too young to be cycling. Do not do any gear before you are 30.

why? growth plates are good to go once youre 21

30? < wth


Well, it depends - I have two friends, each have 4 kids & have cycled whatever, whenever without PCT. Me - well, I can't shoot out a kid if I tried after staying on gear for the last 3+ years.

my total t is 436 and im only 23 and cheap ass Kaiser wont give me a prescription im sure 500 mg would do more benefit then harm

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Originally Posted by < >

30? < wth


Well, it depends - I have two friends, each have 4 kids & have cycled whatever, whenever without PCT. Me - well, I can't shoot out a kid if I tried after staying on gear for the last 3+ years.

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30 is a bit extreme... But just b/c your growth plates(Epiphyseal plates) are sealed doesn't necisarrily say your brain is done developing nor your endocrine system in full for that matter... But I'd get your BW done and see what's fully going on... If you have TSH/thyroid problems that need further testing etc but your on the lower end surely for your age... But what's your free test(this is actually what binds to your receptors etc)

Same with me - my buddies never heard of an AI PCT DA anything and popped out 3 and I couldnt get a my ex prego after my first cycle(due to primary hypogonadism) I got er pregnant 2x prior but the lady took the day after pill on me - its not like it can't happen(as long as your shooting loads) then you'll have a chance... Look at it that way and if freeze your sperm b4 going on!

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Originally Posted by zejj

my total t is 436 and im only 23 and cheap ass Kaiser wont give me a prescription im sure 500 mg would do more benefit then harm

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Get thorough blood work and figure out why it's lower than normal. Then correct the problem. You may have an underlying issue and if corrected you could be good to go without TRT for another 20 years. Many things cause low T such as thyroid, prolactin or cortisol issues, pathologies and head trauma.

There's a good example of BW to obtain in the Finding A Doc Sticky thread in the HRT Forum.

ronnie coleman has kids. Is there anymore to be said?

here are my test results, I also have all the symptoms of low test (lack libido foggy thinking lack of energy) my TSH is 2.440 MIU/ML my total test was ng/ml my free test % was 2.61 and my free test was 146.7 pg/ml ive never had any sort of trauma nor diseases or anything either... do you guys think a HRT clinic would accept me?

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Originally Posted by zejj

here are my test results, I also have all the symptoms of low test (lack libido foggy thinking lack of energy) my TSH is 2.440 MIU/ML my total test was ng/ml my free test % was 2.61 and my free test was 146.7 pg/ml ive never had any sort of trauma nor diseases or anything either... do you guys think a HRT clinic would accept me?

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EDIT MY TOTAL TEST was 5.63 ng/ml

First look deeper into your thyroid. Any TSH over 2 "should" require further investigation even though it fits into most normal ranges for thyroid. A more modern scale is .3 - 3.0. You're free test percentage is actually normal and with that in mind I wouldn't worry that much about your total T. Free is what works for you, not total. Take a look at this pic:

http://www.testosteronewisdom.com/in...p_image006.jpg


Would an HRT Clinic accept you? Probably yes as they rarely turn people away unless they absolutely have to. They don't make money telling people no. Also know that the symptoms you described can be related to hypothyroidism as well.

http://www.everydayhealth.com/hs/hea...sing-symptoms/

wow that's surprising! I had no idea men could even get that! what should be my next steps? Kaiser permente didn't even say anything about my thyroid..

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Originally Posted by zejj

wow that's surprising! I had no idea men could even get that! what should be my next steps? Kaiser permente didn't even say anything about my thyroid..

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They don't mention it as all they probably tested was TSH and yours still fits into the old range of .450 to around 5. Big difference between that range and the newer, accepted range of .3 - 3.0. Spend some time reading at Stop the Thyroid Madnessâ„¢ - Hypothyroidism and thyroid mistreatment. Self education can be key for you here.

Step one is finding a doc that understands the thyroid and doesn't make decisions based on TSH and an old range. TSH is a weak indicator of thyroid health. A good array of tests for thyroid would be:

TSH
FT3
FT4
RT3
Antibodies

Your goal should be to find a doctor to work with you to discover what the actual issue is, and then correct it. Band aiding it with testosterone when it may not be needed is not the answer.

thank you kelkel! I appreciate the help! im gonna call Kaiser tomorrow and talk to my doctor hopefully they will help out !(Kaiser is known for being stingy)

Impossible to answer
Too many variables, everyones different

Some will have kids, some wont
Only ome way to find out man, get off the gear and get in the sack

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Originally Posted by TheTaxMan

Impossible to answer
Too many variables, everyones different

Some will have kids, some wont
Only ome way to find out man, get off the gear and get in the sack

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So are you saying that there are people who have done gear and can't have kids ever? Even if they get off and do PCT?

There will be cases, cant say i know for sure but id bet my next cycle there is cases of it happening

I've done several cycles, and I had a semen analysis about 6 months ago. I was in tip-top shape, unfortunately we found out my wifes endometriosis has made it all but impossible to have kids regardless of my seminal prowess....

But that's just me. Everybody's different, and if you truly want to have kids then perhaps you need to revisit your priorities. Life is about making decisions, and the best way to do so is to weigh the risk/benefit ratio. Also, talk to your wife about it. Tell her that you're taking all the necessary precautions, but this is a risk. While it's your body and therefor your choice, it's a decision that effects you both as it seems she wants kids too; she certainly should have her opinion heard.

I hope this isn't true. Im about to be 32 and I'm gonna want kids in a few years

I had my son after 3 cycles (about 3 years after the 3rd cycle, we concieved within 10 days of trying)

would i have been as fertile straight after a cycle or durimg a cycle? Who knows

Theres too many variables and guessing not to mention we are all different

Theres no set answer

The problem with having gear isnt the actual getting pregnant part. In most cases your natural sperm production is reduced, its not like you become sterile or something like that

The issue is there are plenty of studies you can look up yourself that support the fact that getting a female pregnant while using steroids can lead to birth defects for the child

So is it impossible, very much so. Is it the smartest thing to do? No

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Originally Posted by Trapology

The problem with having gear isnt the actual getting pregnant part. In most cases your natural sperm production is reduced, its not like you become sterile or something like that

The issue is there are plenty of studies you can look up yourself that support the fact that getting a female pregnant while using steroids can lead to birth defects for the child

So is it impossible, very much so. Is it the smartest thing to do? No

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Let's say I get on HRT at 24, not cycling not getting on and off just staying on but in 5 years (29 years old) I decide to have a kid and I do PCT and get off HRT would the kids still be compromise? Or would they be 'clean sperm'?

I dunno man...its hard to say with the damage you risk doing to you theoretically undeveloped body

Unless you plan on running hcg or something the entire time thats a lot of atrophy to deal with also, I dont even know what pct protocol that would help you shake back off a 5 year run.

Theres really no reason to be doing all that bro you should really reconsider the risk reward of what youre doing

I know a lot of people dont wanna hear critical advice like this, but just keep in mind this your body youre dealing with and you only have 1 of those

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Originally Posted by Trapology

I dunno man...its hard to say with the damage you risk doing to you theoretically undeveloped body

Unless you plan on running hcg or something the entire time thats a lot of atrophy to deal with also, I dont even know what pct protocol that would help you shake back off a 5 year run.

Theres really no reason to be doing all that bro you should really reconsider the risk reward of what youre doing

I know a lot of people dont wanna hear critical advice like this, but just keep in mind this your body youre dealing with and you only have 1 of those

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But it makes me wonder how all those bodybuilders Ronnie Coleman, dave palumbo, arnold schwarzenegger etc etc have kids yet they ran SHIT TONS of gear a low dose of test 600 mg or less can't be that bad ?

Its not about the amount of gear the guys are taking, it has nothing to do with that
I know plenty of probody builders, a few who have stepped on the stage at the olympia even

And i promise you each and every single one of these dudes takes time off and lets their body recover. Most people know rich pinina or whatever his name is gives damn near horrible advice but even hes smart enough to tell you to take time off and rest your body

AAS puts stress on the body, more importantly stress on vital organs including the heart, youre body 150% needs to rest no matter if youre running 100mg or 1g of test.

Take me for example, i run a very mild cycle and have for 10 months of 125mg test e and 100mg tren e. I do this for 10 months but ever year without question I make sure to take my 2 months off from aas and I even take time off from the gym to rest my body in general

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Originally Posted by Trapology

Its not about the amount of gear the guys are taking, it has nothing to do with that
I know plenty of probody builders, a few who have stepped on the stage at the olympia even

And i promise you each and every single one of these dudes takes time off and lets their body recover. Most people know rich pinina or whatever his name is gives damn near horrible advice but even hes smart enough to tell you to take time off and rest your body

AAS puts stress on the body, more importantly stress on vital organs including the heart, youre body 150% needs to rest no matter if youre running 100mg or 1g of test.

Take me for example, i run a very mild cycle and have for 10 months of 125mg test e and 100mg tren e. I do this for 10 months but ever year without question I make sure to take my 2 months off from aas and I even take time off from the gym to rest my body in general

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But doesn't your body crash and you get gyno? Or do you just do PCT?

I personally dont use PCT, a lot of people wont advise that but in my situation I use such a small amount although 10 months might seem excessive I still recover without any help at this age. Ive also never had problems with gyno. Keep in mind that assuming something could change I always keep things on hand but I do not actively use PCT

And why would you think my body would crash and I would get gyno? If you think that would happen to me from 10 months of use what do you thinks gonna happen to you after 5 years, or you never come off like you said in the beginning?

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Originally Posted by Trapology

Take me for example, i run a very mild cycle and have for 10 months of 125mg test e and 100mg tren e. I do this for 10 months but ever year without question I make sure to take my 2 months off from aas and I even take time off from the gym to rest my body in general

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This piqued my interest. By chance have you monitored your lipids for changes due to tren's potential impact on them, even with such a low dose?

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Originally Posted by kelkel

This piqued my interest. By chance have you monitored your lipids for changes due to tren's potential impact on them, even with such a low dose?

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Ive done it once, there was issues but they were much more minor compared to what you would typically experience similar to the post ill include below. At this low of a dose my sides are very very minimal beside the unavoidable cough, and that includes my BP doing much better then expected

Im not big on blood work during cycle cause I understand that a number of things cause fluctuations so i try not to get hung up or concern myself with those tests, im also big on listening to my body to tell me if there are any problems. At best all i do is blood work at the end of my 2 months to see if I return to normal for the most part.

A few years ago a guy posted on his experience doing the same thing so ill leave this for you

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Long ass title i know. Bare with me. Anyway, i little background. I'll be 40 in a few months. I have been on doc prescribed TRT since January 2008. Started at 200mg EOW. Then bumped to 300mg EOW. Left the BBing world for a while and started more of a PLing style training and added Deca/GH in 2009 for about 6 months while i bumped my test up to 750 i believe. Felt like hell after that was over and ended up at 262lbs. TSH was also at 5.5!! Walked around like that for a cpl more years and one day i got winded chasing my 4 year old son up the stairs. Decided I'd had enough (so did my wife!). So in January 2012 i started my first run with Keto. On and off for a year and I dropped 40lbs or so. Throughout those years i was usually keeping my test a bit higher than prescribed and would drop it down to 150mg a week about 6 weeks out from my yearly doc appt. mlp

Anyway, my CHOL levels, even after dropping that weight were still high. Namely LDL, HDL was decent. So i decided last year i would keep my test at the prescribed dose from now on. Added 10g of Fish Oil daily and within a few months my LDL was down, but still out of range. Total was right around 200-205.

So back in October, working with a buddy of mine who is a doc, i decided to try a little experiment for a year. I was leaner obviously dropping all that fat, but i just couldn't get that fat off that made you look lean and hard/veiny. Call it age, whatever. But i have kids and a life and would not commit to dieting like i did when competing just to have abs. I knew Tren was great for fat loss but i also knew it was hell on lipids. of course, i had, like most of us, only ever done 300mg/w or more. So we did all of our research and settled on 50mg of test and 100mg of Tren E a week. Below i will chronicle the last 6 months of this experiment.

Started November 3, 2013

All other bloods were good. I will talk about CHOL this whole time only unless something else got weird. At this point my lipids were as follows:



Total - 200
HDL - 43
LDL - 167

- after 2 weeks of this dosing schedule my dick felt like it was broken. Even on Cialis. I'm sure that part was mental but i felt like hell. Immediately bumped my test dose to 100mg and started Caber at .5mg a week. We wanted to see the effects of everything by itself which is why i didn't start the Caber right off the bat.

- 4 weeks in i was starting to get that tren look like i remembered. Even with the low dose. I also felt normal again from the bump in test dose. i know how strong tren is but this dose is rinky dink so i assumed it would be minimal. Strength was holding strong. Benching in the low 400s and pulling high 500s, low 600s.

- Did bloods at 8 weeks and got these results:

Total - 220
HDL - 30
LDL - 179
E2 - 96

- So as expected the Tren took a shot at lipids pretty early, even at this dose. I was a bit disappointed to say the least but we pressed on. I added Niacin at 500mg/d and kept the Fish Oil the same. Dropped the Tren E dose to 75mg a week. At this point i thought that dose was gonna be useless but this was a year long thing and i wasn't dying so we kept at it. One thing of note, my liver values were perfect. The E2 was really weird but i know how progesterone can be affected with these hormones so i took 25mg of Aromasin ED and in two weeks the small lump i had was gone. Hasn't been back since. mlp

- Kept at it for another 6 weeks and got bloods done again:

Total - 205 (down 15pts)
HDL - 31 (up a point... yeehaw)
LDL - 160 (down 19pts)

- So this was pretty cool. I was honestly worried that the Tren was just gonna continue killing my lipids and I'd end this thing before a year. i know its only 1 point, but it HDL didn't go down, so i was stoked. Even moreso that the LDL went down even further.

- I upped the Niacin to 1g/d and kept Fish Oil the same. Kept the Tren dose the same.

- Couldn't get in to do bloods right at 8 weeks but made it at ten weeks, which was last Friday. For whatever reason 3 weeks ago i decided to up the dose of Tren back to 100mg/w. Not sure why, probably because i'm a retard. Anyway, i also upped the Niacin dose to 1.5g/d and dropped the Fish Oil to 5g/d. Bloods came back as follows:

Total - 177 (down 28pts)
HDL - 31 (same)
LDL - 135 (down 25pts)

- Now this was/is very encouraging!! haha I would like to see my HDL higher, but i don't feel, being on Tren at any dose, that that HDL result is horrible. The drop in total due to the LDL drop is awesome. Honestly my LDL hasn't been that low in probably 5 or more years. I'm still at 100mg a week of both test and tren e and loving life. i have dropped the Fish Oil completely and will stay with this Niacin dose for another 8 weeks. Liver values and everything else is perfect.

Now, I'm gonna post some pics for reference. Things of note. I think pics like this are gay as hell. I also don't feel my physique is one for pics at home (i don't say that for compliments i just have a wide waist and narrow clavicles), and i have no idea wtf i'm doing. but i wanted to take some pics that didnt have IAT (internet angling technique) to make me look ginormous at every angle. So please excuse them if you can't see shit!! Right now I'm sitting at 222lbs or so. I am getting dunked in a week or two, but I'm guessing I'm maybe in the 10% range. Could be more, could be less. I really have no idea though. Never had a real BF test done.

Hope this helps out in any way. Experimenting with gear is the only way to find out what it will do with and without certain variables. And Tren is one of those hormones that everyone knows is awesome but it also carries the biggest amount of broscience bullshit with it. I will say i thought this was gonna be over sooner than now, so I'm happy. If it stays like this for a year it will become a mainstay to my TRT regimen. I'm not getting any younger and i still like to eat mac n cheese so i have to cheat somehow. haha

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Interesting read. There are actual studies regarding low dose Tren for TRT.

ive seen it become more and more of discussion over time and more people keep asking about it

I started 6 years ago as an experiment to try to maintain my gains when i came off, for that purpose and my overall goals its worked really great for me

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Originally Posted by Trapology

ive seen it become more and more of discussion over time and more people keep asking about it

I started 6 years ago as an experiment to try to maintain my gains when i came off, for that purpose and my overall goals its worked really great for me

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Isn't tren really bad for you?

Interesting info



I heard this from quite a few guys now - Come off 100% once a year for a few months at a time.

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Originally Posted by zejj

Isn't tren really bad for you?

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No, as long as youre a responsible user tren is perfectly fine

It can be a little much for some people in terms of side effects but overall its not something horrible to take

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Originally Posted by kelkel

Interesting read. There are actual studies regarding low dose Tren for TRT.

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hey kelkel my thyroid results were TSH BLD QN was 1.640 uIU/mL T3 157.8 ng/dl my doctor says its normal what do u think?

Appears normal.

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Originally Posted by kelkel

Appears normal.

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So based on my testotoerone results should I start a cycle and go on and off? or get on HRT and be on it permanently? (until I want to have kids)