First cycle. Opinions?

Hey fellow bros, I'm looking to start my first cycle within the next month and this is how I've set it out from research. I just wanted to see what you guys think and if any adjustments should be made.

Test e week 1-15
Anavar added week 10-15 or 12-17 into PCT?
HCG added week 11-15
Pct week 17-21

Cycle
500mg test per week
Monday & Thursday
75mg (50mg if 6 weeks) Anavar ED
.25mg arimidex EOD until PCT

HCG 1000iu per week
500iu Monday and Thursday

PCT (2 weeks post last pin)
Clomid ED
50/50/50/50
Nolvadex ED
20/20/20/20

Thinking of adding dbol week 1-4 30mg ED as a kickstarter. What do you think?
Should I do 12 week cycle instead of 15? Could someone please adjust my cycle to 12 week cycle with and without dbol? Only decided 15 weeks as that's 3 vials worth.

Weekly rotation - quads/glutes maybe delts
19gauge pull
23gauge pin

Stats
24
5'7
73kg (160lb)
15%bf

7 years training on and off. Last 3 years proper training and diet.

Welcome to the forum.
Take a look at this thread,there is awesome info how exactly to do the first cycle and lots of other info:

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html

12 weeks test only

No anavar
No dianabol

(Besides runnin 2 orals back to back or together is rough on the liver, you only need 1 compound on your first cycle, if you get side effects on your cycle, your not going to know which drug is causing those side effects)
You grow into cycles, grow into stacking compounds.

Thanks Mr Freshmaker

Taxman, I've decided to do a 12 week cycle dropping the HCG and dbol. I'm well aware that for a first cycle test should only be used to see how my body reacts. And running orals would affect my liver, but var will be a little less harsh. I'll be running some kind of support. I'm only planning this as a one off, that's why I've decided to stack with another compound. Running Var 8 weeks into my cycle, so if I do react within the first 1-8 or 8-12 weeks, I should hopefully be able to tell which compound it is if i do get side effects. What do you think? Sound reasonable? Thanks for your reply

Sides arent instant though, they can come at any time, so technicaly your theory isnt going to work.

I still advise only test for a first cycle, you could then do test and anavar on your second cycle.

Why are you dropping the HCG? You should run that through the full cycle and drop it just before PCT

I made a thread in another forum, and I had two people telling me they wouldn't use HCG, and a third giving a fomative reason why not.
"I strongly advise AGAINST using HCG with your cycle. Many bodybuilders are under the incorrect misconception that HCG usage will help them recover post cycle or keep testicular shrinkage to a minimum while on cycle. I am not sure where this misconception came from but it is very incorrect. HCG is extracted from pregnant female urine. You read that correctly. It is a form of estrogen and causes estrogen levels to rise. High estrogen levels can lead to gynecomastia, increased body fat levels and water retention. Even worse, if HCG is used for too long or in high enough doses, it will inhibit your own testosterone production due to the negative feedback loop via the pituitary gland and hypothalamus."

I'm only planning to do one cycle, but if you really think a simple test e cycle would be the way to go, I'll give some thought to a second cycle with anavar..

And I'll be using HCGenerate as the above I quoted recommended. Unless you could give a good argument why it's better to use HCG? Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doridori

I made a thread in another forum, and I had two people telling me they wouldn't use HCG, and a third giving a fomative reason why not. "I strongly advise AGAINST using HCG with your cycle. Many bodybuilders are under the incorrect misconception that HCG usage will help them recover post cycle or keep testicular shrinkage to a minimum while on cycle. I am not sure where this misconception came from but it is very incorrect. HCG is extracted from pregnant female urine. You read that correctly. It is a form of estrogen and causes estrogen levels to rise. High estrogen levels can lead to gynecomastia, increased body fat levels and water retention. Even worse, if HCG is used for too long or in high enough doses, it will inhibit your own testosterone production due to the negative feedback loop via the pituitary gland and hypothalamus." I'm only planning to do one cycle, but if you really think a simple test e cycle would be the way to go, I'll give some thought to a second cycle with anavar..

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hCG does come from pregnant females.
It IS NOT a form of estrogen. It a a molecule that is very similar to LH, basically LH with a hat on.
It does cause estrogen to rise since it causes your testes to produce testosterone and some estrogen.
It does inhibit your natural production of LH not testosterone.

HCG should be used on cycle and not during PCT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doridori

And I'll be using HCGenerate as the above I quoted recommended. Unless you could give a good argument why it's better to use HCG? Thanks

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If you think real HCG is bad, why would you want to use fake HCG?

I'm already aware that HCG should be used during cycle and not PCT. If you look at my planned cycle, I added it towards the end of my cycle.
I don't want to use fake HCG, that's what I was recommended hence asking you guys for help as I'm not sure. Looks like I'll be keeping HCG part of my cycle. I'll let update the other forum with your points.. just so I can make a definite decision. Leaning on keeping it though as I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Why take the risk for just one cycle? Just train natural.

Re HCG: http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...njections.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doridori

I made a thread in another forum, and I had two people telling me they wouldn't use HCG, and a third giving a fomative reason why not.
"I strongly advise AGAINST using HCG with your cycle. Many bodybuilders are under the incorrect misconception that HCG usage will help them recover post cycle or keep testicular shrinkage to a minimum while on cycle. I am not sure where this misconception came from but it is very incorrect. HCG is extracted from pregnant female urine. You read that correctly. It is a form of estrogen and causes estrogen levels to rise. High estrogen levels can lead to gynecomastia, increased body fat levels and water retention. Even worse, if HCG is used for too long or in high enough doses, it will inhibit your own testosterone production due to the negative feedback loop via the pituitary gland and hypothalamus."

I'm only planning to do one cycle, but if you really think a simple test e cycle would be the way to go, I'll give some thought to a second cycle with anavar..

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Yes, HCG is ussualy extrated from pregnant female urine, it is a luteinizing hormone (LH) analog. Understand what is LH and what it does in your body (particularly in your testis) and you will find out for yourself why is not a misconception that will keep some testicular function while on cycle.

The other forum guy is a little mixed up, its not a form of estrogen but it can have a small effect on estrogen levels as the testosterone produced in your testis (cause of the HCG) can aromatize into estrogen, of course using an AI (aromatize inhibitor) is always advised on cycle and will control this estrogen issue.

As for the HCG inhibit own testosterone its true, but on cycle your own testosterone is already shut down (why is advised to use HCG ON cycle), he is only correct on the high HCG doses which can desensitize testis to LH, with the 500ui per week dosage this does not happen.

Maybe Im repeating myself as the link provided by Kel explains all this...

Guess you like the replies better on the other forum. What are you doing here?

BTW, HCGenerate is just a bunch of herbs and is promoted in the other forum cause those members make money out of fools who buy it.

What do you think I'm doing here? I already knew why HCG should be used on cycle hence why I originally included it until I got opinions against it. I re-read what he wrote and it sounds pretty stupid. Are you indirectly calling me a fool? Not like I bought it mate. That's why I'm here for your help and answers. And just realised that guy is a representative for HCGenerate. I guess you're right they're just promoting stuff. I got recommended the "perfect pct protocol" with all this other shit in it, I'll just stick to the usual nolva/clomid ED for 4 weeks.

Kelkel, I've been training naturally for a few years now, having suffered from weightloss from substance abuse a few years back, bad genes and anxiety, seems like my body has hit a plateau and it isn't changing much. That's why I'd like to try a cycle..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doridori

Kelkel, I've been training naturally for a few years now, having suffered from weightloss from substance abuse a few years back, bad genes and anxiety, seems like my body has hit a plateau and it isn't changing much. That's why I'd like to try a cycle..

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Well, unless I missed someone else mentioning it, full BW would be step #1. You need to see what you've got going on with everything including a full hormone panel. Take a look in the HRT forum and use the BW in the Finding A Doc sticky thread at the top of that forum. Do your best to get that done which will at a minimum establish baselines for you if you choose to cycle. It may also reveal something that may be suppressing your endogenous T production.

If you get it done, I'd be more than happy to look it over for you.