My Very First Cycle! How does it look?

Looked at that sticky about planning a good cycle so I just basically copied it:

CYCLE:

- Week 1 to 12: Test-E at 250 mg every 3-4 days (500mg/week total)
- Week 1 to 12: hCG at 250 iu every 3-4 days (500 iu/week total)
- Week 1 to 14: Arimidex at 0.25mg every other day (From day 2 up until PCT starts)
-Week 15 to 18: Clomid at 75/50/50/50
-Week 15 to 18: Nolvadex at 40/20/20/20

Other possible things to be used:
N-Acetyl Cysteine
Accutane

The sticky recommended liver protection. Is it really that necessary? And Accutane I may take as I used to be very prone to acne so I will most likely get it again.

Blood work I will be be getting:

1. Testosterone, Total
2. Testosterone, Free
3. Sensitive E2 Assay (Not basic estradiol, that's for women)
4. CBC (Compete blood count)
5. CMP (Comprehensive metabolic panel)
6. Lipid Profile (post cycle is fine)
7. LH and FSH (pre-cycle and post PCT)

Pre-Cycle blood work: 2 weeks prior to cycle.
Mid-Cycle blood work: 7 to 8 weeks in
Post-Cycle blood work: 6 weeks after PCT.


Stats:
Age: 26
Height: 6'1
Weight: 195 pounds
Bodyfat: 12-13%
Training exp: 5 years on/off. 4 years serious.

Goal: To bulk up with minimal side affects.

Diet: 4000 calories (500 calories above my maintenance) 180g of protein

How does this cycle look? Does anything need to be changed? More calories? PCT? Anything?

And does anyone recommend anything I can do to avoid as much acne on cycle as possible?

Thank you in advance!

Make sure you have everything in hand before you start.

Your cycle looks good. Are you going to run labs pre cycle to get baseline numbers?

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Originally Posted by ocman

Make sure you have everything in hand before you start.

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Absolutely.

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Originally Posted by Bio-Active

Your cycle looks good. Are you going to run labs pre cycle to get baseline numbers?

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Yes I will get blood test 2 weeks prior to cycle. I am going to Labcorps. Cost around 52 bucks for a private blood test so you don't have to visit a doctor. Kind of expensive but required.

I'd get your protein up off cycle as well as on. I'd be tempted to take it up to 250g.

Hate to admit it, but bib`s suggestion was the only one i noticed also.

A tiny improvent to bib. Add 20-30 grams pr week until you reach 250. Or 250-300. Like almost anything else. Dont let the body in peace, always change and shock it. Your body is the most adaptable thing in the world. Russians drink a litr vodka a day. Easiest thing.

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Originally Posted by Back In Black

I'd get your protein up off cycle as well as on. I'd be tempted to take it up to 250g.

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Originally Posted by Silabolin

Hate to admit it, but bib`s suggestion was the only one i noticed also.

A tiny improvent to bib. Add 20-30 grams pr week until you reach 250. Or 250-300. Like almost anything else. Dont let the body in peace, always change and shock it. Your body is the most adaptable thing in the world. Russians drink a litr vodka a day. Easiest thing.

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Is 250 g of protein really necessary though? I researched that only 80% of your bodyweight is enough for protein. So 80% of 195 pounds is about 156 grams of protein. And I'm taking in 180 grams so..

Or is it because on cycle I should be taking in more protein than usual?

Nice. Best of luck to you!

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Originally Posted by saucerking

Is 250 g of protein really necessary though? I researched that only 80% of your bodyweight is enough for protein. So 80% of 195 pounds is about 156 grams of protein. And I'm taking in 180 grams so..

Or is it because on cycle I should be taking in more protein than usual?

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Care to share this research? Link? because its either total bullshit or it's talking about the average 40% bodyfat American who doesn't lift anything but a bag of potato chips and a can of beer. Are you just trying to just survive or are you trying to build muscle? Listen to the advice given or don't bother asking in the first place. Everything said here by others is correct. if i were you i'd do some research on your own of the protein requirements of bodybuilders and other athletes who's goal is size and strength. You will find that 80% thing you said is complete rubbish.

My protein intake at 230 lbs is on avg 400-450g per day. I'd like it to be 500.

1 gram per pound of bodyweight is for sedentary normal people. 1.2-1.5g per lb is for more serious weight trainers who's goal is size and strength. 2g per lb or higher is for elite bodybuilders and powerlifters and or those on steroids but that's kind of synonymous. Too much protein can cause kidney problems but it takes a lot more than anything were talking about here to do any damage. 80% I assume means 195*0.85 = grams of protein per day. That's not enough for you.

BTW your cycle prep is great. I see very few first timers who have it laid out in such detail and correctly.

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Originally Posted by Java Man

Care to share this research? Link? because its either total bullshit or it's talking about the average 40% bodyfat American who doesn't lift anything but a bag of potato chips and a can of beer. Are you just trying to just survive or are you trying to build muscle? Listen to the advice given or don't bother asking in the first place. Everything said here by others is correct. if i were you i'd do some research on your own of the protein requirements of bodybuilders and other athletes who's goal is size and strength. You will find that 80% thing you said is complete rubbish.

My protein intake at 230 lbs is on avg 400-450g per day. I'd like it to be 500.

1 gram per pound of bodyweight is for sedentary normal people. 1.2-1.5g per lb is for more serious weight trainers who's goal is size and strength. 2g per lb or higher is for elite bodybuilders and powerlifters and or those on steroids but that's kind of synonymous. Too much protein can cause kidney problems but it takes a lot more than anything were talking about here to do any damage. 80% I assume means 195*0.85 = grams of protein per day. That's not enough for you.

BTW your cycle prep is great. I see very few first timers who have it laid out in such detail and correctly.

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Thank you for seeing my cycle prep is written out well.

As for the protein, I don't have a direct link. However there are multiple sources online you can find if you search.

For the average American that doesn't lift, 50-80g of protein a day is enough for them.

For people who lift weights (Naturals), 80% of your bodyweight in protein is definitely more than enough protein for building muscle. Contrary to belief, your body doesn't need that much protein. I have made amazing gains from only eating .08 per pound of protein. Anymore than that, and you're just gonna fart and shit out the rest honestly.

I could understand why you would need more when taking AAS. However, I think 1g-1.2g per lb would be sufficient so I would be willing to eat about 220g-240g max. Once I gain weight I would increase it as well. 2g per pound however is just overdoing it.

450g-500g of protein is absolutely unnecessary in my opinion. Your body will definitely not use up even close to that amount even on AAS. You are probably doing more harm than good to be honest as you said yourself too much protein can harm the kidneys and other things.

This isn't to bash on you or anything but I am just telling you my opinion as I know quite a bit about lifting and building muscle naturally. I have done years of research and have been lifting for years with excellent results following what I learned online. However I don't know as much when it comes to AAS so that's why I am here.

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Originally Posted by saucerking

Thank you for seeing my cycle prep is written out well.

As for the protein, I don't have a direct link. However there are multiple sources online you can find if you search.

For the average American that doesn't lift, 50-80g of protein a day is enough for them.

For people who lift weights (Naturals), 80% of your bodyweight in protein is definitely more than enough protein for building muscle. Contrary to belief, your body doesn't need that much protein. I have made amazing gains from only eating .08 per pound of protein. Anymore than that, and you're just gonna fart and shit out the rest honestly.

I could understand why you would need more when taking AAS. However, I think 1g-1.2g per lb would be sufficient so I would be willing to eat about 220g-240g max. Once I gain weight I would increase it as well. 2g per pound however is just overdoing it.

450g-500g of protein is absolutely unnecessary in my opinion. Your body will definitely not use up even close to that amount even on AAS. You are probably doing more harm than good to be honest as you said yourself too much protein can harm the kidneys and other things.

This isn't to bash on you or anything but I am just telling you my opinion as I know quite a bit about lifting and building muscle naturally. I have done years of research and have been lifting for years with excellent results following what I learned online. However I don't know as much when it comes to AAS so that's why I am here.

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Fair enough.


I already have read all the research I care to read on protein requirements for all types of people. Those people aren't weight lifters and they aren't on steroids.

50-80g may be fine for simple survival of a normal sedentary person. We aren't normal nor sedentary. We aren't trying to just maintain what we went to bed with last night. We are trying to grow like we are going through puberty again. We need a lot more than "USRDA" figures which are meant to show what the average person needs in order to survive. And if you add AAS into it you have changed the ballgame completely.

If you're doing an AAS cycle to bulk I recommend you up the protein to at least 1.5g/lb. You utilize your nutrients much more efficiently when you're on AAS and/or HGH. This is from 26 years of experience in practice and I have been reading all of those 26 years. I don't care what the lab coats say. Most of them are not bodybuilders. We all know that theory and practice are often quite different. I was stuck at 200-205 for years until I started training less often but with much higher intensity and eating twice as much food. Then I started to grow rapidly again. Training less and eating the food of 2 or 3 normal men in order to gain lean tissue and lose fat flies in the face of all clinical research I have read on the subject. yet it is doing exactly that in me.

I'm not arguing. Just making a point that researchers have their place but they don't have all the answers. It's one slice in the giant pie that is what we do. Best of luck to you in your goals ;)

As stated, the cycle looks great! On the protein debate, everybody is different. 180g is lower than most here would recommend, but it's still decent and if it's working for you then stick with it and just up the protein as your size goes up. Java is a known garbage disposal, wherever you live, lock up your fridge because Java will find it and eat it. Literally, the whole fridge:)

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Originally Posted by Baxter35

As stated, the cycle looks great! On the protein debate, everybody is different. 180g is lower than most here would recommend, but it's still decent and if it's working for you then stick with it and just up the protein as your size goes up. Java is a known garbage disposal, wherever you live, lock up your fridge because Java will find it and eat it. Literally, the whole fridge:)

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:) lmao. I take offence to the term "Garbage Disposal" however... I prefer "Mass Consumer". I eat a lot but I do try to keep it clean, except for those nights I eat a half gallon of death by chocolate ice cream but my weight is still going up and BF% is still going down so yes I will eat the fridge and everything in it as long as it's mostly protein and veggies! Digesting the metal box will be difficult but lots of iron to be had there and I am prescribed 40mg Prilosec daily and I can up it to 60 if needed. So see, even the refrigerator itself has nutrients in it!

Don't run armidex unless it's needed cuz you may not be gyno sensitive

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Originally Posted by Althenery

Don't run armidex unless it's needed cuz you may not be gyno sensitive

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This is bad advice, dont listen to this guy.

Estrogen effects are not all centered in the nipples area, in fact gyno is the mildest side effect of high estrogen.

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Originally Posted by saucerking

Looked at that sticky about planning a good cycle so I just basically copied it:

CYCLE:

- Week 1 to 12: Test-E at 250 mg every 3-4 days (500mg/week total)
- Week 1 to 12: hCG at 250 iu every 3-4 days (500 iu/week total)
- Week 1 to 14: Arimidex at 0.25mg every other day (From day 2 up until PCT starts)
-Week 15 to 18: Clomid at 75/50/50/50
-Week 15 to 18: Nolvadex at 40/20/20/20

Other possible things to be used:
N-Acetyl Cysteine
Accutane

The sticky recommended liver protection. Is it really that necessary? And Accutane I may take as I used to be very prone to acne so I will most likely get it again.

Blood work I will be be getting:

1. Testosterone, Total
2. Testosterone, Free
3. Sensitive E2 Assay (Not basic estradiol, that's for women)
4. CBC (Compete blood count)
5. CMP (Comprehensive metabolic panel)
6. Lipid Profile (post cycle is fine)
7. LH and FSH (pre-cycle and post PCT)

Pre-Cycle blood work: 2 weeks prior to cycle.
Mid-Cycle blood work: 7 to 8 weeks in
Post-Cycle blood work: 6 weeks after PCT.


Stats:
Age: 26
Height: 6'1
Weight: 195 pounds
Bodyfat: 12-13%
Training exp: 5 years on/off. 4 years serious.

Goal: To bulk up with minimal side affects.

Diet: 4000 calories (500 calories above my maintenance) 180g of protein

How does this cycle look? Does anything need to be changed? More calories? PCT? Anything?

And does anyone recommend anything I can do to avoid as much acne on cycle as possible?

Thank you in advance!

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I take NAC all of the time even though a cycle for me is more of a high end TRT for most. When I did cycle, the thing that seemed to help me the most with acne was Dial bar soap. It isn't very expensive and might be worth a try.
Personally, I would bump up.the protein intake, but like Java, I am a "mass consumer". If you find you aren't gaining, maybe tweak your total calories up another 500, but I think you've pretty much done your homework. Nice job!

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Originally Posted by Althenery

Don't run armidex unless it's needed cuz you may not be gyno sensitive

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This coming from someone who upped their tren dose and started to get gyno?!?! But you had letro on hand, right... Well letro doesn't rid gyno - it helps it from flaring up but it'll knock your d!ck in the dirt it's so harsh(it's a myth... Only SERMs can rid gyno - if caught in time or surgery)

Please don't advise others on mistakes you've made and continue to make... ALWAYS run your AI from the start of any cycle(estrogen control is very important) - unless you want 'moobs'

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Originally Posted by Althenery

Don't take any advice from me

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Fixed