Bulk on cycle then cut naturally or what?

[saucerking]

Please read all of this. This is something that always confused me and I could never find a direct answer to it from searching.

I'm about to start my first cycle and was wondering how you guys did your bulking and cutting.

I'm around 11-12% bodyfat and was planning on bulking on my first cycle, but after my first cycle is done, I will probably have high bodyfat so I was thinking of cutting naturally after the cycle in order to have low bodyfat for my next cycle.

However I am scared of doing this because I heard you will lose all gains if you aren't eating enough after cycle. But that doesn't make sense to me because what if you are trying to cut? You have to lower your calories. Does that mean all the hard earned muscle you gained on cycle will go away if you cut naturally afterwards? Should I just continue bulking after cycle and only do cuts on cycle?

Help please!

[73rr]

Alot of ppl here will say to stop cutting and bulking.

Get down to 9 or 10 % bf and then CLEAN BULK the rest of your life haha. Just make sure u have your diet in check so your body fat doesn't spike up on u and ruins the whole point of this idea.

[73rr]

If u do cycle and bulking. Remember when u stop your cycle u HAVE to keep your diet intake UP just like if your on cycle.

[Back In Black]

Honest answer is control your diet on cycle and don't gain too much fat. Eat at 300cals above maintenance consistently through your cycle.

Cycling isn't a licence to eat as much as you want and get away with it.

Your alternative is to cut a little first and then cycle with a bulk and more calories so that a little extra fat doesn't matter.

[saucerking]

Alot of ppl here will say to stop cutting and bulking.

Get down to 9 or 10 % bf and then CLEAN BULK the rest of your life haha. Just make sure u have your diet in check so your body fat doesn't spike up on u and ruins the whole point of this idea.

Well that doesn't make any sense because clean or dirty bulk, you will still have to cut eventually. I already am clean bulking. Going about 300-500 calories above maint. I will have to cut at some point...

Honest answer is control your diet on cycle and don't gain too much fat. Eat at 300cals above maintenance consistently through your cycle.

Cycling isn't a licence to eat as much as you want and get away with it.

Your alternative is to cut a little first and then cycle with a bulk and more calories so that a little extra fat doesn't matter.

I am eating 300 cals above maint. So are you saying just clean bulk during cycle, then continue clean bulking post cycle and save the cutting for when I get to my next cycle? Basically saying never cut off cycle. Only bulk off cycle to prevent losing any gains?

[73rr]

No if u cut down to your desired bf% and get your diet in check "clean bulk". U will be able to manage your bf so it doesn't go wild. Slowly bulk. Clean and then add cardio to manage the bf u don't want.

To add, I'm not saying this is easy what's so ever but ones u get it down its worth it.

[saucerking]

No if u cut down to your desired bf% and get your diet in check "clean bulk". U will be able to manage your bf so it doesn't go wild. Slowly bulk. Clean and then add cardio to manage the bf u don't want.

To add, I'm not saying this is easy what's so ever but ones u get it down its worth it.

Okay but you're not answering my question. I am currently clean bulking. EVENTUALLY I will end up with high bodyfat. So I will EVENTUALLY have to cut. There is no such thing as "clean bulking for the rest of your life". Clean bulk just means you eat 300-500 calories above maint. Dirty bulk is high calories such as 800-1000 calories above maint.

So should I just clean bulk/slowly bulk during cycle, and continue clean bulking post cycle so my bodyfat doesn't go too high, then finally cut when I get to my next cycle?

Also I don't do cardio for cutting bodyfat. Gaining/losing weight is all about diet. If I want to cut bodyfat, I lower my calories, not cardio.

[ScotchGuard02]

Not all calories are the same. Eating one doughnut (195 cal) or eating 5 oz chicken breast (200 cal) are totally different. If you watch what you eat during cycle, you can gain hard muscle gains without a lot of fat. It is nearly impossible to gain muscles without gaining some fat. Conversely, it is almost impossible to lose fat without losing muscles. I cardio to lose fat. You eat less calories. They will both work. In my experience, interval training type of cardio seems to cut fat the quickest for me.

[saucerking]

Not all calories are the same. Eating one doughnut (195 cal) or eating 5 oz chicken breast (200 cal) are totally different. If you watch what you eat during cycle, you can gain hard muscle gains without a lot of fat. It is nearly impossible to gain muscles without gaining some fat. Conversely, it is almost impossible to lose fat without losing muscles. I cardio to lose fat. You eat less calories. They will both work. In my experience, interval training type of cardio seems to cut fat the quickest for me.

Okay thanks for the info but it doesn't answer my question.

Again here is my question:

Should I just clean bulk during cycle, and continue clean bulking post cycle so my bodyfat doesn't go too high, then finally cut when I get to my next cycle? Basically saying never do cuts off cycle?

[charger69]

Okay thanks for the info but it doesn't answer my question. Again here is my question: Should I just clean bulk during cycle, and continue clean bulking post cycle so my bodyfat doesn't go too high, then finally cut when I get to my next cycle? Basically saying never do cuts off cycle?

I am traditional and have always bulked and then cut. I was cutting too much. Someone in the diet section recommended to maintain a bf of around 10% even during bulk. Last year i had to drop 25 lb and this year i am expecting about 15 for competition .. I am still trying to dial it in.
The answer to your question is yes. If you do it right you will not need a cutting cycle unless you are going to compete.
Remember that all AAS can be used for both cutting and bulking, this is dictated by your diet. As scotch said not all calories are the same. During the bulking i go high on carbs and during cutting low on carbs. Your macro makeup also plays a difference.

[73rr]

Okay but you're not answering my question. I am currently clean bulking. EVENTUALLY I will end up with high bodyfat. So I will EVENTUALLY have to cut. There is no such thing as "clean bulking for the rest of your life". Clean bulk just means you eat 300-500 calories above maint. Dirty bulk is high calories such as 800-1000 calories above maint.

So should I just clean bulk/slowly bulk during cycle, and continue clean bulking post cycle so my bodyfat doesn't go too high, then finally cut when I get to my next cycle?

Also I don't do cardio for cutting bodyfat. Gaining/losing weight is all about diet. If I want to cut bodyfat, I lower my calories, not cardio.

Maybe I don't now what your asking but everyone has answered u.

Get to the body fat u want to be at and then try to gain muscle by eating clean and maintain fat with EATING CLEAN and cardio.

Yes u can bulk and keep your fat at a percentage range.

Edit for another question: are u competing in body building?

[saucerking]

I am traditional and have always bulked and then cut. I was cutting too much. Someone in the diet section recommended to maintain a bf of around 10% even during bulk. Last year i had to drop 25 lb and this year i am expecting about 15 for competition .. I am still trying to dial it in.
The answer to your question is yes. If you do it right you will not need a cutting cycle unless you are going to compete.
Remember that all AAS can be used for both cutting and bulking, this is dictated by your diet. As scotch said not all calories are the same. During the bulking i go high on carbs and during cutting low on carbs. Your macro makeup also plays a difference.

Maybe I don't now what your asking but everyone has answered u.

Get to the body fat u want to be at and then try to gain muscle by eating clean and maintain fat with EATING CLEAN and cardio.

Yes u can bulk and keep your fat at a percentage range.

Edit for another question: are u competing in body building?

You guys still aren't getting it.

You will gain fat on a bulk no matter what. Clean bulking just means you are going 300-500 calories above maintenance. You will eventually end up with a higher bodyfat percentage. This is where you cut. Basically lowering your calories so you lose bodyfat and try to maintain your muscle mass.

And no I am not competing in bodybuilding..... bulking and cutting isn't just for competitions.. most people do that. If I just bulk my whole life, I will end up at 400 pounds.... You have to cut at some point.

My question was is if it was alright to perform this cut off cycle, or must I do this cut during cycle to prevent any muscle being lost?

Because naturally, I bulked for months, then cut for like 2 months. I lost little muscle/strength while dropping lots of bodyfat.

I was wondering if its any different while cycling. Should cuts be only performed during cycles?

Does anyone on this forum have any idea what I am talking about.... Seriously like so many people here are clueless on what a bulk and cut even is

[Back In Black]

Think you're going to get any advice when you are calling people clueless?

I told you to drop your bodyfat before you cycle so at the end of your bulk cycle you would be the same fat you are now.

Yes you can cut when not on cycle. No you shouldn't cut straight after a bulk whether it was using AAS or not.

If you cut with drastic calorie restriction you will lose muscle and strength, that's common sense. Don't plan on losing more than 1lb per week naturally.

You haven't cycled, you have no idea how your body will react to AAS, my suggestion of eating 300cals above maintenance on cycle will probably mean zero fat gain.

Now, if that still doesn't answer your questions well, we definitely aren't the ones that are clueless.......

[Baxter35]

Cmon OP, this is the second thread I've seen now where you've gotten all defensive and started calling other people stupid just because they're not giving you the answers you expected. Do you actually want to learn anything or not?

[saucerking]

Think you're going to get any advice when you are calling people clueless?

I told you to drop your bodyfat before you cycle so at the end of your bulk cycle you would be the same fat you are now.

Yes you can cut when not on cycle. No you shouldn't cut straight after a bulk whether it was using AAS or not.

If you cut with drastic calorie restriction you will lose muscle and strength, that's common sense. Don't plan on losing more than 1lb per week naturally.

You haven't cycled, you have no idea how your body will react to AAS, my suggestion of eating 300cals above maintenance on cycle will probably mean zero fat gain.

Now, if that still doesn't answer your questions well, we definitely aren't the ones that are clueless.......

Ok that's all I needed to hear. Although I don't see how 300 calories above maint. = zero fat gain. If you eating above caloric maintenance, you will gain fat. But thanks regardless.

Cmon OP, this is the second thread I've seen now where you've gotten all defensive and started calling other people stupid just because they're not giving you the answers you expected. Do you actually want to learn anything or not?

Didn't call a single person here stupid.

[Back In Black]

Ok that's all I needed to hear. Although I don't see how 300 calories above maint. = zero fat gain. If you eating above caloric maintenance, you will gain fat. But thanks anyway.

Again, you haven't cycled, you don't know how your body is going to react.

[Java Man]

This again? Trial and error seems the best advice. Let him eat 180g protein. His choice. Who are we?

I have only one more word to add: Booksmart.

[rGus]

I think his question is that he will cut no matter what, so is it better to cut on cycle or off cycle.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Please read all of this. This is something that always confused me and I could never find a direct answer to it from searching. I'm about to start my first cycle and was wondering how you guys did your bulking and cutting. I'm around 11-12% bodyfat and was planning on bulking on my first cycle, but after my first cycle is done, I will probably have high bodyfat so I was thinking of cutting naturally after the cycle in order to have low bodyfat for my next cycle. However I am scared of doing this because I heard you will lose all gains if you aren't eating enough after cycle. But that doesn't make sense to me because what if you are trying to cut? You have to lower your calories. Does that mean all the hard earned muscle you gained on cycle will go away if you cut naturally afterwards? Should I just continue bulking after cycle and only do cuts on cycle? Help please!

Bear with me...
Time one + PCT = time off
12 weeks test C + 2 week break + 4 week PCT = 18 weeks off

IMHO:
Clean bulk on cycle. Maybe + 300-500 calories (People take steroids to get bigger right? So eat.)
Continue eating maintenance calories during PCT maybe even up to + 300 calories. (Helps the body recover.)
Continue eating maintenance calories for 10 weeks after PCT. (Solidifies the gains.)
Cut the final 8 weeks going into the next cycle. (Prime as the wise one's would say.)

NEVER CUT DURING PCT

[Baxter35]

I think his question is that he will cut no matter what, so is it better to cut on cycle or off cycle.

Right, and we're telling him how to make it easier on himself and not have to even worry about cutting drastically in the first place. Sometimes with multiple choice the best answer is D none of the above.

[saucerking]

I think his question is that he will cut no matter what, so is it better to cut on cycle or off cycle.

Holy mother of god finally someone gets it lol. Yes I stated it several times. People are on here telling me I should only be cutting if I am competing like wtf?? Lol

Bear with me...
Time one + PCT = time off
12 weeks test C + 2 week break + 4 week PCT = 18 weeks off

IMHO:
Clean bulk on cycle. Maybe + 300-500 calories (People take steroids to get bigger right? So eat.)
Continue eating maintenance calories during PCT maybe even up to + 300 calories. (Helps the body recover.)
Continue eating maintenance calories for 10 weeks after PCT. (Solidifies the gains.)
Cut the final 8 weeks going into the next cycle. (Prime as the wise one's would say.)

NEVER CUT DURING PCT

Ok thank you. Got a great answer. That's all I needed.

[rGus]

Right, and we're telling him how to make it easier on himself and not have to even worry about cutting drastically in the first place. Sometimes with multiple choice the best answer is D none of the above.

Yea but why not give him a direct answer to his question and then explain a better way of doing things.

[NACH3]

Yea but why not give him a direct answer to his question and then explain a better way of doing things.

It's been very direct to the OP! 3-500cals above maintaince should keep his BF +- 2% -- if his nutrition and training are on point - he shouldn't gain hardly any BF... The op seems a bit cautious to gaining BF, which is understandable, but he's got great advice as to how to keep it down so cutting(as Baxter stated) will be much less of a hassle and he'll much less to cut - if done right he can drop BF while gaining LBM...

[saucerking]

Yea but why not give him a direct answer to his question and then explain a better way of doing things.

THANK YOU!

It's been very direct to the OP! 3-500cals above maintaince should keep his BF +- 2% -- if his nutrition and training are on point - he shouldn't gain hardly any BF... The op seems a bit cautious to gaining BF, which is understandable, but he's got great advice as to how to keep it down so cutting(as Baxter stated) will be much less of a hassle and he'll much less to cut - if done right he can drop BF while gaining LBM...

No.. the question wasn't "How do I keep my bodyfat low?".

Please read the post carefully. I posted it several times as well as put it in bold. I don't know how else to make it easier.

All I asked was is it safe to cut off cycle or better to cut on cycle? That's all it was. I already got my answer though.

[Baxter35]

Op..Here's what I don't understand. You obviously recognize that cutting can lead to losing both muscle and fat..hence your question on when to do it to avoid muscle loss. So why are you so set on still doing it that way? Do whatever works for you, but many people have found success with keeping bf lower while still gaining muscle and never really having to "cut".

[novastepp]

Please read all of this. This is something that always confused me and I could never find a direct answer to it from searching.

I'm about to start my first cycle and was wondering how you guys did your bulking and cutting.

I'm around 11-12% bodyfat and was planning on bulking on my first cycle, but after my first cycle is done, I will probably have high bodyfat so I was thinking of cutting naturally after the cycle in order to have low bodyfat for my next cycle.

However I am scared of doing this because I heard you will lose all gains if you aren't eating enough after cycle. But that doesn't make sense to me because what if you are trying to cut? You have to lower your calories. Does that mean all the hard earned muscle you gained on cycle will go away if you cut naturally afterwards? Should I just continue bulking after cycle and only do cuts on cycle?

Help please!

I would like to interject with a point that I'm not sure was made, except maybe a bit by the Good Ol' Deadlifting Dog: You may want to reduce your body fat after a bulking cycle, but do not do it right away, in fact, don't do it for (generally) 3-4 months. This is a critical time and lowering calories at this point is certain DOOM.

The additional point I would like to make is that you do not need to restrict calories to cut. Cutting has two main priorities: shrinking fat cells and maintaining lean mass. To shrink fat cells, you can follow a strict meal plan and add in some light/moderate cardio to further shrink those cells. The way you do not want to do it is starvation. Aka eating below maintenance. This is best way to lose your heard earned muscle.

So, maybe take this as diet advice, or cycle advice, whatever: diet is all you need to have in check to answer your question. My answer is to eat and follow a clean strict diet and if you do your gains will not disappear.

[saucerking]

Op..Here's what I don't understand. You obviously recognize that cutting can lead to losing both muscle and fat..hence your question on when to do it to avoid muscle loss. So why are you so set on still doing it that way? Do whatever works for you, but many people have found success with keeping bf lower while still gaining muscle and never really having to "cut".

What I was asking was how would cutting go if I did it off cycle as opposed to on cycle.

Because naturally, I could easily cut and still maintain muscle/strength pretty well. However when on AAS, it's different. I don't know if I would lose a lot of muscle cutting when off cycle. I don't know if your supposed to only cut when on a cycle. So that's what I was asking.

I would like to interject with a point that I'm not sure was made, except maybe a bit by the Good Ol' Deadlifting Dog: You may want to reduce your body fat after a bulking cycle, but do not do it right away, in fact, don't do it for (generally) 3-4 months. This is a critical time and lowering calories at this point is certain DOOM.

The additional point I would like to make is that you do not need to restrict calories to cut. Cutting has two main priorities: shrinking fat cells and maintaining lean mass. To shrink fat cells, you can follow a strict meal plan and add in some light/moderate cardio to further shrink those cells. The way you do not want to do it is starvation. Aka eating below maintenance. This is best way to lose your heard earned muscle.


So, maybe take this as diet advice, or cycle advice, whatever: diet is all you need to have in check to answer your question. My answer is to eat and follow a clean strict diet and if you do your gains will not disappear.

Doing cardio and reducing calories end up with the same results.. do you not realize that?

Whether I decide to eat less calories or burn off calories with cardio, it's the same thing. Eating 300-500 calories below maintenance is not "Starving" yourself... That's how you cut. Eating only 500 calories a day would be starving yourself.

For example, if I reduce my calories from 3000 per day to 2500 per day, that will result in me losing weight.

Or if I eat 3000 calories a day and do some cardio that burns off 500 calories, I will end up with 2500 calories for the day. Which will result in me losing weight. So it's the same thing. Understand now?

[Back In Black]

I think the best thing is for nobody else to reply to this thread else there is going to be complete alienation towards the OP.

Thanks.

[novastepp]

What I was asking was how would cutting go if I did it off cycle as opposed to on cycle.

Because naturally, I could easily cut and still maintain muscle/strength pretty well. However when on AAS, it's different. I don't know if I would lose a lot of muscle cutting when off cycle. I don't know if your supposed to only cut when on a cycle. So that's what I was asking.



Doing cardio and reducing calories end up with the same results.. do you not realize that?

Whether I decide to eat less calories or burn off calories with cardio, it's the same thing. Eating 300-500 calories below maintenance is not "Starving" yourself... That's how you cut. Eating only 500 calories a day would be starving yourself.

For example, if I reduce my calories from 3000 per day to 2500 per day, that will result in me losing weight.

Or if I eat 3000 calories a day and do some cardio that burns off 500 calories, I will end up with 2500 calories for the day. Which will result in me losing weight. So it's the same thing. Understand now?

It isn't the same thing.

Using your example of ~3000 cals a day we can see how it works differently.

Simplified:

If you restrict calories from 3000-2500 and eat at a deficit, you are only giving your body 2500 cals to work with to build/maintain lean muscle mass: of course that all comes AFTER all of your other, more important, metabolic activities, you know, like living. This is not muscle sparing.

If you eat 3000 calories, you have added 500 calories (at ~3000 a day that is practically a whole meal for you) to work with to build/maintain lean muscle mass. If you perform light fat burning cardio in a fasted state in the morning (preferably) or after your workouts, this reduces the size of your fat cells, BUT allows 3000 calories of food to be utilized for your metabolic functions and for muscle building/sparing.

The net outcome may be equivalent, but the latter method is far superior for sparing muscle, which again, is a priority when cutting and also your original concern.

[Mr.BB]

I think the best thing is for nobody else to reply to this thread else there is going to be complete alienation towards the OP.

Thanks.

Hello, whats up m8?

Allright?

[Back In Black]

Hello, whats up m8?

Allright?

Smiling Always smiling