12/11/2015: Is This Real Life: Enough is Enough!

**jimmyinkedup** · 12-11-2015, 10:17 AM

Is This Real Life: Enough is Enough!!

So I am skimming the forums the other evening like I often do and there it was, “LDG-4033 with MK-677(like stacking TEST and HGH) but safer”. That was the title of the thread. I did a double take and clicked on it thinking to myself possible typo or something? I mean what the HELL is that? Much to my amusement it wasn’t a typo, the post went on to pass along some totally misleading information on LGD-4033 and MK-677. Things like LGD-4033 induces minimal shutdown when in fact LGD has been shown to induce significant suppression at doses as low as 1mg. Then MK was referred to as,” the most convenient form of GH”, like it is actual growth hormone . It also went on to say MK makes body fat seemingly “melt off” and induces rapid muscle gain.

The first thing that popped into my mind after reading this post was in fact the title of this blog, “Is this real life because enough is enough man.” This thread was kind of the straw that broke the camel’s back. You may have seen me from time to time refer to irresponsible marketing tactics and claims but in my mind this one kind of took the cake. I mean it’s bad enough the inflated claims that are made in order to market & sell products but when you start posting inaccurate information that may actually be harmful to someone’s long term health and wellbeing and that are so misleading they are out and out lies something needs to be said/done.

A recent lawsuit brought against IronMagLabs echoes a similar sentiment. They are being sued in California court for stating that the Sarm Ostarine does not cause HPTA shutdown and has no adverse side effects what so ever. The facts on this product are clear, it does cause suppression in a dose dependent manner and of course it has side effects that would be considered adverse, almost everything does. Again one has to ask himself, why? Why lie? Why cast aside your very own customers’ health and wellbeing like that just to sell a product? The answer of course is obvious, the almighty dollar.

Since I have just mentioned a couple Sarms above in my examples of unscrupulous and inaccurate marketing claims now is as good a time as any to address the issue of Sarms and many of the companies selling them. Being the “latest and greatest” I suppose Sarms are the most likely candidates for such erroneous claims to be made but I can honestly say it has been quite a long time since I have seen a product category come to market that has been accompanied by such inaccurate and dubious marketing claims. Companies such as Sarms1 and SarmsSearch along with others dedicated to the sale of sarms have flooded the market with inaccurate, misleading and downright dangerous claims as far as their effects go. The primary area that this has been exhibited in would be Sarms effects on the HPTA. Lets get this straight here and now, all Sarms, some more than others, exhibit a suppressive effect on the HPTA. While this normally occurs in a dose dependent manner some actually exhibit significant suppression at a dose as low as 1mg (LGD-4033)!

Claims such as Sarms can safely be taken during PCT or Sarms are not suppressive or even the claim that taking aa serm alongside of a Sarm will “offset” any suppression are being made. I have one word for all of these claims – Bullshit! These guys need to ge their heads out of their asses and realize we are talking about peoples HPTA here, a hormonal system that regulates so many factors in the human body when it comes to overall health, mental and physical wellbeing it isn’t funny. We are potentially talking about someone’s ability to have children here among other things for goodness sake. Now I am not saying that if you take Sarms standalone under the assumption there is no suppression that you will never be able to have a child, not even close. What I am saying is how fvcking irresponsible can you be to make such claims about a product just to line your pockets.

What we have observed taking place is that not only has this irresponsible marketing occurred on a company level by individual Supplement, Sarms and RC companies but we have seen it carry over to take over entire forums. What seems to occur is that all the companies on said forums band together and agree to support one another’s erroneous contentions, creating a totally misleading environment for many times unsuspecting and often new forum members. It should be mentioned as well that you can pretty much rest assured that a rep who markets for companies that would stoop to such low levels do not have just one user on a forum. What they have no problem doing is creating numerous and multiple users under different user names. This allows them to post something as a rep and use other what I like to call “ghost users” to support their BS claims. So now you are looking at not only the company reps of the immoral companies banding together agreeing to support one another, you have the reps plus perhaps 4-5 additional users each supporting this nonsense when it is posted as well. Now it would be bad enough if it just ended there, more than bad enough, but it doesn’t.

Taking this crap a step further you have seen entire forums, including staff members sign on and agree to cosign this bvllshit! This primarily occurs on forums where the primary concerns of the forum owner and admin have one primary concern and one concern only- the almighty dollar again. The companies are all paying sponsors; paying sponsors are a primary means as to how these forums generate their revenue. The more successful the sponsors are the more likely more sponsors are to sign on and the more likely sponsors are to remain. So the trend of shady marketing, rather than a trickle down effect has a trickle up effect if you will. You now have staff backing these bvllshit claims as well. Factor that into the number of forum users you have spouting off and cosigning this bull. The reps, all their ghost users, the staff, all of their nuthugging lackies (in order to remain in the “in” crowd”), the friends of all the reps even seem to want to fit in and be aa part of this nonsense to “help a bro out”. You can quickly see where this is heading. Before you know it as I said you have an entire forum that is founded on essentially total bullshit!

Some companies have seen to it that this will occur right off the bat. They start and have their own forums. This ensures that all of the above mentioned people will participate in this form of unscrupulous marketing. Others simply find a forum that has an owner who has no problem operating his forum in such a manner and they jump on in.

Forums such as IML, EVO, ASF, Bodybuilding.com and others are examples of forums where the forum owners own their own companies that sell & market products so they are pre-ordained to be the way I just described since apparently the owners have no shame. Now other forums such as Anabolic Minds and Elite are examples of forums that simply allowed this to take place and take over the entire forum…all for a buck.

You can quickly see where this bvllshit has gotten totally out of hand. Now in all fairness I have to mention that some forums recognized this as the direction they had taken and began to see that they were being a part of the problem and chose to make a change and be a part of the solution. For example Elite recognized this and essentially cleaned house of their sponsors. Bullshit companies like Saarms1 and NTBM were given the boot and responsible marketing sponsors such as *** were brought in. I say kudos to them. They had the balls, in spite of looking into the face of great financial loss to stand for what is right and put a stop to it. They have a long road ahead of them but at least they decided to stand for something that is right and see it through.

Now I have mentioned companies and forums that participate in this crap and I mentioned one forum that did and chose to stop it. In all fairness I should mention that there are companies that have never participated in such marketing tactics. You see it IS possible to market in an ethical and moral fashion. For example what the hell is wrong with saying that a Sarm should be used with a test base or should not be used in PCT? Absolutely nothing! You see Sarms DO have some benefits such as reduced impact on prostate or reduce impact on liver enzymes or in some cases reduced effect on lipid profile. Those things right there make them a highly marketable anabolic without having to stoop to the level of lying about impact on the HPTA! That’s what makes the practice of this reprehensible form of marketing that is taking place even more absurd! Some companies do realize that it is prudent and ethically responsible to market a product on its merits and inform customers as to their potential side effects. Sadly these are few and far between these days but you can recognize them. You can also look to the people that recommend them as a guide. It is obvious in most cases the people that put your wellbeing first and have no agenda but it does take time to recognize who those people are.

There are also forums that don’t participate in this garbage either. You also should be able to recognize which ones they are. I will again refer to a line I used in a previous blog, if you are reading this on a particular forum there is aa good chance that it falls into this category.

So I have gone on and on about this crap that infuriates me. Its been all about the problem. So what is the solution? Look in the fvcking mirror guys. It is time to grow a set and put a stop to this crap and look out for one another. That’s the thing that floors me; it is people within the community that are ****ing over their very own brothers in iron! WTF is that man?

You have a choice to make. If you’re a rep look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself how you want to make a buck and at what cost? If you’re a forum owner ask yourself the same. Lastly and most importantly and the group that ironically has the most clout (and is the one on the losing end right now) is just the good old forum member. Its time to support the companies and forums that do business the right way, in a responsible and ethical manner. Its also time to call out these reps, their ghost users, the staff on these forums and all their nuthugging friends. If your posts get deleted then so be it, you have your answer – go to another forum that isn’t a shit hole shill spot and help people there. These guys cant do it all on their own. Educate the newcomer to these tactics, pm them, make them aware. The very solution is in our hands guys. Ask yourself today do I want to be a part of the problem or a part of the solution because that’s what it comes down too. If you aren’t standing for something your falling for anything and it is at the expense of your newcomer and often young brothers in Iron. How about we all start to do the right thing and expect the same from the companies and the forums we choose to support!

Thanks for reading!

Regards,
Jimmyinkedup

**jmalls** · 12-11-2015, 10:18 AM

This is gold!

**jmalls** · 12-11-2015, 10:43 AM

I have to say this forum is the most on point forum out there I have been lurking for years reading seeing how people's questions are answered and only on a rare occasions have a seen a rude comment and it is usually warranted. Unlike 4 other forums I have accounts at are nasty and bot very helpful rather sluff you off if you don't have 19383747383 post plus million rep points! And my self I am a person to read more then I post so I never really fit in there anyway.

**DSS** · 12-11-2015, 10:54 AM

Good read. A lot of truth there not only to this game but in all aspects of life also. Look forward to later instalments.

Thanks Jimmy!

**PersuAsian** · 12-11-2015, 01:25 PM

I think that so much of this has to do with the "entitlement generation" that we live among now. Everyone thinks that everything is owed to them. They don't feel bad about the repercussions to others because they really only care about themselves. If people don't start truly disciplining their kids again I don't know what's going to happen to this world. I manage a small company in the Midwest and I feel that anyone that is younger than me (36...crap 37 tomorrow) feels that they need to come into an entry level position making $75K a year. "Ok so you don't have any experience and are straight out of school. You are going to cost me money as opposed to make me any money for your first year. Sounds like a good plan." Too many of these kids were raised with praise. Teaching these kids that they are better than everyone else. Everyone gets a participation award. It's all bs. Raise some people that will contribute to our society. {End Rant} Anyway, great write up Jimmy! Looking forward to this blog.

**NACH3** · 12-11-2015, 01:54 PM

AMEN, Brother... Well said, Jimmy!

Let's take it in our hands here, and be the solution guys... Grow a pair(which on this forum we have great staff as well as members) let's keep and uphold 'your' own integrity, also! Like Jimmy stated its im our own hands!

It's statements that are made by these shills... Etc! Great read and id like to ask you a few ?'s when available Jimmy regarding this blog!
Regards,
Nach

**jimmyinkedup** · 12-11-2015, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

AMEN, Brother... Well said, Jimmy!

Let's take it in our hands here, and be the solution guys... Grow a pair(which on this forum we have great staff as well as members) let's keep and uphold 'your' own integrity, also! Like Jimmy stated its im our own hands!

It's statements that are made by these shills... Etc! Great read and id like to ask you a few ?'s when available Jimmy regarding this blog!
Regards,
Nach

Ask Away!
If it pertains to this specific blog ask right in this thread.
If it is questions about the blog in general start a thread in my blog forum.
Thanks Man!
Ask away

**NACH3** · 12-11-2015, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

Ask Away!
If it pertains to this specific blog ask right in this thread.
If it is questions about the blog in general start a thread in my blog forum.
Thanks Man!
Ask away

I don't get how these 'members that are part of this 'marketing scheme' get away with these claims of no suppression... All one needs is BW to realize(if no test base is being used) that one would be suppressed or close to shut down! Are people not aware of even getting BW to find out what's going on and are they simply taking there word for it? Im just assuming this... Which is wild! Im wondering if we/like your doing shouting abroad about this would make a deep impact as it is very necessary! These are life long problems they can/are starting! Very sad! This Sh!t has got to stop...

Again, this just proves that this board/forum is exactly what it's supposed to be.... Upheld with Integrity and respect of others/members/staff!

**TheTaxMan** · 12-11-2015, 04:41 PM

Definatley a case of newbs just taking their word for it, falling for it etc Nach

How many people do we see on this forum with silly cycles suggested by there buddies at the gym, or even by people who they dont know. Its lazy/gullible human beings that stupidly just take the first thing they hear.

For example.
I bet we could recommend so many newbs to run deca only cycles and i bet most of them would think, "he looks good in his avatar he must be telling the truth"

Another example is these people who fall for these supplements with a before and after pic of some roid head claiming he gained 100lbs in 4 weeks

Im just glad we all here give the right advice etc

-

Great post Jimmy, really enjoying these informative blog entries, cheers!

**jimmyinkedup** · 12-11-2015, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

I don't get how these 'members that are part of this 'marketing scheme' get away with these claims of no suppression... All one needs is BW to realize(if no test base is being used) that one would be suppressed or close to shut down! Are people not aware of even getting BW to find out what's going on and are they simply taking there word for it? Im just assuming this... Which is wild! Im wondering if we/like your doing shouting abroad about this would make a deep impact as it is very necessary! These are life long problems they can/are starting! Very sad! This Sh!t has got to stop...

Again, this just proves that this board/forum is exactly what it's supposed to be.... Upheld with Integrity and respect of others/members/staff!

They do just take their word for it man and it is scary.
You have to figure a new guy reads all these posts from all these senior members saying that the stuff is great and doesnt shut you down and they even lie saying they got blood drawn and their test levels didnt drop. The whole deal. Of course the new guy believes it. The guy that posted it has 25,000 posts, he has VIP Super Deluxe Mega Member under his name, he has 15 million reputation points, and like 8 posts after his all agree with him and say he is right and how great it is.
They buy right the heck into it man and when you consider the above it isnt a stretch to see why. What they dont know is Mr VIP Super Mega Deluxe Member works for the company selling it, the user below that agreed with him are all his own ghost users (him signing in under a diff name) and the staff member that agreed is just following instructions from the admin that tells staff to always back and support our sponsors. Throw in a few guys who are so desperate to belong to something, anything that they agree with whatever Mr VIP Super Mega Deluxe Member says because then he responds to them and makes them feel like they are a part of the forum and are held in high regard.
Pretty messed up man. It really is.
It is def nice to be a part of a forum like this one that is absent of these agendas. We were never ordered or instructed to back or push any sponsor here. If it was done it was done of our own volition because we actually use and like their products. fvcking imagine that LOL...

**Simon1972** · 12-11-2015, 05:51 PM

Maybe we could start by removing the automatic censorship software on this forum that puts stars in place when company competitors are mentioned. E.g. cem , *** used to ,or still do...suppose I will find out after I click "post quick reply". Here goes...

**NACH3** · 12-11-2015, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

They do just take their word for it man and it is scary.
You have to figure a new guy reads all these posts from all these senior members saying that the stuff is great and doesnt shut you down and they even lie saying they got blood drawn and their test levels didnt drop. The whole deal. Of course the new guy believes it. The guy that posted it has 25,00 posts, he has VIP Super Deluxe Mega Member under his name, he has 15 million reputation points, and like 8 posts after his all agree with him and say he is right and how great it is.
They buy right the heck into it man and when you consider the above it isnt a stretch to see why. What they dont know is Mr VIP Super Mega Deluxe Member works for the company selling it, the user below that agreed with him are all his own ghost users (him signing in under a diff name) and the staff member that agreed is just following instructions from the admin that tells staff to always back and support our sponsors. Throw in a few guys who are so desperate to belong to something, anything that they agree with whatever Mr VIP Super Mega Delue Member says because then hee responds to them and makes them feel like they are aa part of the forum and are held in high regard.
Pretty messed up man. It really is.
It is def nice to be a part of a forum like this one that is absent of these agendas. We were never ordered or instructed to back or push any sponsor here. If it was done it was done of our own volition because we actually use and like their products. ****ing imagine that LOL...

LOL... Right!! The only thing you would ever hear of any staff, or highly touted members here say is what the truth is! That and all the knowledge here is by far unrivaled imho(across the board)...

But I definitely agree with you as the new(er) and younger he generation the worst it's gotten! even I was ready to listen to my buddy one time(no idea what pct is, nor an AI HCG DA etc) I did one Google search and it brought me here... I signed up immediately and started realizing he was dumber than a bid of rocks... Never left! So... I surely can see how they can be so naive and gullible(if that isn't lazy and stupid I don't know what is) it's a shame these VIPs are the ones ****ing these people's HPTAs and using hc(generate) sh!t on anyone let alone kids... It's fvkin sadp, real sad...

Jimmy, I liked the reference regarding looking yourself in the mirror! Any real man would not be able to live with that, imho!

**kelkel** · 12-11-2015, 09:01 PM

Very well said Jimmy!

**jimmyinkedup** · 12-14-2015, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

Jimmy, I liked the reference regarding looking yourself in the mirror! Any real man would not be able to live with that, imho!

I think the main point I wanted to convey was the ball truly is in our court man. In the big picture this stuff can only be pulled if members on the forums allow themselves to be a part of it in some way. If enough people said enough and spoke their HONEST thoughts this crap would stop. If the Companies, Their Reps, The Forums, Their Staff will not take the moral high road the members could call them out and force them too.
There are too many young and impressionable people out there that deserve to be told the truth. The decisions made as far as what we put into our bodies should not be taken lightly. The vets have a responsibility to look out for the newbs and steer them in the right direction, teaching them safe and responsible use of supps, peptides, rc's and juice. That should always be priority one man, always!

**Metalject** · 12-15-2015, 10:03 AM

The marketing things people tend to get so upset with when it comes to supplements and in this case SARMS I have a very hard time understanding. All advertising for every product or service on earth embellishes to the extreme and no one has a problem with it...except with supplements. Yes, someone can say this is different because it's messing with your health, but that's not a good enough reason, in my opinion. We can all easily point to countless products that affect health but no one takes issue with their advertising.

When it comes to false claims, people should do their own homework. If you don't do your homework then anything that occurs is on you. I am NOT a fan of consumer protection or intervention by the government or courts. Let markets function naturally and let customers decide what they want.

Lawsuits, anyone can bring suit against anyone, especially in business. Any individual can bring suit against any company he wants. Point being, a lawsuit is not an indicator of wrong doing, although in the U.S. we're rapidly turning into that in all aspects of the law...look at Ferguson.

Forums - all forums are driven by money, that's what keeps them up. They serve no purpose without it and cannot function without it. What about the Buy Anabolics banner at the top of this page? Does that upset you? I'm not being a smart aleck, it's a straightforward question. I'm always somewhat amazed how some of the members here bash that banner into the ground yet the entire reason they're able to post here is because this site like all sites has sponsors. The even more mind-bending thing is when some member here gets pissy when someone post a question about the site sponsor. It's as if some are simply too retarded to understand this. Well, I shouldn't say that. I know everyone here is a brilliant, filthy rich former Navy Seal, lol! Thankfully, this is one of the few boards where that ridiculousness doesn't seem to exist...at least not much.

What about the Fitnessmodels.com banner to the right? Should we be upset about that? Should we file a lawsuit and claim some sort of discrimination because someone other than ourselves is deciding who gets to carry the title of a fitness model? What about how it says "accepting applications" and if I submit and get denied that would mean they didn't accept mine...does this mean they lied and used false advertising tactics? Their site states at the top "a community designed exclusively to support and promote people who are committed to living healthy" if I'm denied yet live healthy is this not false advertising? A claim was made, there was no truth in it for me, so was it a lie? Hopefully this all makes sense to some but I understand it won't to most. Die supplements die is all most can hear.

Originally Posted by NACH3

I don't get how these 'members that are part of this 'marketing scheme' get away with these claims of no suppression... All one needs is BW to realize(if no test base is being used) that one would be suppressed or close to shut down!

Most people, I'd be willing to bet 99%, do not and will never get blood work. Should they? Sure, and you can argue that all day long but it's that's never going to happen. Does that piss me off? Not even in the slightest. People are and should be free to do whatever they want as long as they are the ones affected. I'm sitting here right now cigarette in one hand and donut in the other. Well, not really but I'm free to be if I choose despite all the problems it would cause with my health.

**jimmyinkedup** · 12-15-2015, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Metalject

The marketing things people tend to get so upset with when it comes to supplements and in this case SARMS I have a very hard time understanding. All advertising for every product or service on earth embellishes to the extreme and no one has a problem with it...except with supplements. Yes, someone can say this is different because it's messing with your health, but that's not a good enough reason, in my opinion. We can all easily point to countless products that affect health but no one takes issue with their advertising.

When it comes to false claims, people should do their own homework. If you don't do your homework then anything that occurs is on you. I am NOT a fan of consumer protection or intervention by the government or courts. Let markets function naturally and let customers decide what they want.

Lawsuits, anyone can bring suit against anyone, especially in business. Any individual can bring suit against any company he wants. Point being, a lawsuit is not an indicator of wrong doing, although in the U.S. we're rapidly turning into that in all aspects of the law...look at Ferguson.

Forums - all forums are driven by money, that's what keeps them up. They serve no purpose without it and cannot function without it. What about the Buy Anabolics banner at the top of this page? Does that upset you? I'm not being a smart aleck, it's a straightforward question. I'm always somewhat amazed how some of the members here bash that banner into the ground yet the entire reason they're able to post here is because this site like all sites has sponsors. The even more mind-bending thing is when some member here gets pissy when someone post a question about the site sponsor. It's as if some are simply too retarded to understand this. Well, I shouldn't say that. I know everyone here is a brilliant, filthy rich former Navy Seal, lol! Thankfully, this is one of the few boards where that ridiculousness doesn't seem to exist...at least not much.

What about the Fitnessmodels.com banner to the right? Should we be upset about that? Should we file a lawsuit and claim some sort of discrimination because someone other than ourselves is deciding who gets to carry the title of a fitness model? What about how it says "accepting applications" and if I submit and get denied that would mean they didn't accept mine...does this mean they lied and used false advertising tactics? Their site states at the top "a community designed exclusively to support and promote people who are committed to living healthy" if I'm denied yet live healthy is this not false advertising? A claim was made, there was no truth in it for me, so was it a lie? Hopefully this all makes sense to some but I understand it won't to most. Die supplements die is all most can hear.

Most people, I'd be willing to bet 99%, do not and will never get blood work. Should they? Sure, and you can argue that all day long but it's that's never going to happen. Does that piss me off? Not even in the slightest. People are and should be free to do whatever they want as long as they are the ones affected. I'm sitting here right now cigarette in one hand and donut in the other. Well, not really but I'm free to be if I choose despite all the problems it would cause with my health.

I love that you posted this. This is the type of conversation I was actually hoping to generate. This is a topic that should be discussed and there is no clear cut I am right/you are wrong here. Thats the thing about opinions, everyone is entitled to their own and it is fun and often times educational to debate opposing opinions.
One thing I wish to make clear, a good portion of your posts speaks to government regulation and lawsuits etc re: this issue. Please do not take that way from my post. That is absolutely NOT what I am in favor of in this scenario, not by a long shot, and not something I want people to think I am for or endorse in any way.
My position on this issue is more one of personal responsibility. The good thing about a position like that is even if you do not agree with it it does not mean you have to participate in the activities I view as part of the problem. You see even if you do not think it is a problem you do not have to go around touting or supporting the reps, companies and even forums that conduct business in that manner.
The very thing you seek to dismiss with supplements and this issue is in fact they very thing that does set it apart from other categories of products. You see it is one thing to say for example a car wax will take a 25 yr old faded paint job and make it look brand new and having it fail and the car remains unchanged or unimproved. It is quite another to say a supplement has no effect on your hpta and a 22 yr old ends up in an endocrinologists office suffering from hypogonadism.
Do I think the banner above is wrong, yes I do. What makes that banner different than the examples i cited? Those products are not going to potentially harm you based on the marketing claims being made, the products I mentioned in fact, potentially are. The other thing with that banner as an example is this, you do not see staff here going around pushing those products in people. You dont see reps here blatantly selling them making erroneous, inflated and untrue claims re those products & their effects. You see none of the activities or tactics i referred to in the blog taking place. Thats a huge difference.
The thing IMO is this, if you see someone posting information about a product, say a sarm, that is untrue I feel like if you know different you should point it out. Sure it is easy to say hey people should educate themselves and if they are dumb enough to fall for this type of marketing they they get what they deserve. The problem with that is many come to the forums to do just that, to educate themselves. If they find themselves on a forum like one I mentioned they have essentially fallen right into a trap. The very place they are looking to for accurate knowledge and information is a part of the problem. The people they feel they can trust such as staff of veteran members are in fact in on it. Sure if someone asks a question re a product they would assume the rep selling it will be biased and post accordingly. That would be just being a smart consumer. However how many people enter said situation thinking that the very rep might have 3-4 different users under different user name and he may very well use all of them to post untrue information about the product all designed to help him sell it? How many stop to think wow the staff member that posted who has years of experience would outright lie and say a product is great and safe when it isnt , all just to get a kickback of because the forum admin says to do so or because he is "friends" with the rep?
What I am saying is that in these scenarios, even when a consumer may legitimately be trying to exercise due diligence before making a purchase he may unknowingly find himself in a situation where the chips are highly stacked against him from the start. Its like if you are at a store looking at an item and someone walks up to you or is standing next to you. He looks over and say hey that stuff works awesome, its great stuff. You dont expect that person to have an ulterior motive, yet here on the forums that may very well occur and occur with people a newcomer might expect to be able to trust and it may occur to a much greater degree with significaantly more involvement. It isnt, IMO, right.
The thing I wanted to touch on with this blog is that the members are ultimately very much in control of this. Now if you dont have a problem or issue with it, then fine, so be it. You do not have to do or say anything although certainly do not endorse or participate in this misleading form of marketing. That certainly wouldnt be right now would it? If you DO have a problem with it and you do think you should share your knowledge and experience with a newcomer honestly when it comes to products, their use, their effects and their potential dangers, I am saying post it! Make it a point to not ignore it or condone it but share your thoughts and opinions honestly. Essentially be a part of the solution and not the problem. The good thing about my position on this is even if you dont have a problem with what is going on, if you simply choose not to participate in it thats fine at least you arent condoning it..... or are you?
Its essentially a moral/ethical question in that case that is very similar to lying by omission. Sure you can say you didnt lie but were you truly honest? Well not really. At the end of the day you personally decide where you choose to fall.

**Metalject** · 12-18-2015, 10:36 AM

Glad you see this as a worthwhile debate rather than an argument for the sake of arguing.

I brought up the issue of law suits because in your original post you brought up a lawsuit against IML. This would imply to me that if a law suit is brought against a company that some level of guilt should be held against the sued. Or rather that’s what’s being implied. That seems to be a problem we (society) have in a lot of cases with a lot of issues, we assume and place wrong doing onto a company or group of people based on the fact that charges were brought or a lawsuit brought rather than waiting results of the legal action.

I do agree with you when it comes to personal responsibility, and consumers, they are the ones who are responsible for exercising the most personal responsibility. I do agree that some burden also rest on the producer, but truly free markets typically have a way of naturally eradicating producers that lie or provide false products. Better companies with better products last through the test of time, bad ones do not.

The banner above: one thing I’ve never understood is why members here don’t push younger guys (especially younger guys) towards those products. If they’re products that aren’t going to cause the user harm and people are concerned with younger guys harming themselves with AAS, then things like the banner above would be an obvious recommendation. The individual doesn’t need to promise them that the products are going to produce results like AAS, but they can offer these as a good starting point. Most all people are going to take something be it supplements or AAS. This is not going to change or be altered 99% of the time. Why not encourage people to take steps that will protect them? Force them, no but offer alternatives.

And there is no argument from me when it comes to calling someone out for posting untrue information, such as untrue SARM info or something like that. Of course you should say something.

**tarmyg** · 12-19-2015, 09:54 PM

I will weigh in on consumers and personal responsibility specifically. I am, for lack of better description, a libertarian. Living in India, this have put my ideas to the ultimate test. You walk into a store and buy something, by the time you have paid for it you are on your own, literally. You can take ZERO action against the store owner who simply sold you something and what condition the stuff is in is your responsibility. I'll give you a specific example. My wife walks into an extremely fancy and famous branded store that sells makeup. After about one hour in there and testing different products and having three people pamper her she bought a lipstick. As we left the store and went to have a cup of Joe she was going to look at it a bit more. At this point, she realized that the makeup was out of date and went back to the store. The response, you should have looked at that before you bought it. While I agree, how can a person live like that, at all times be on your guard against being ripped off and having zero way of taking any action?

**Trapology** · 12-28-2015, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Metalject

Glad you see this as a worthwhile debate rather than an argument for the sake of arguing.

I brought up the issue of law suits because in your original post you brought up a lawsuit against IML. This would imply to me that if a law suit is brought against a company that some level of guilt should be held against the sued. Or rather that’s what’s being implied. That seems to be a problem we (society) have in a lot of cases with a lot of issues, we assume and place wrong doing onto a company or group of people based on the fact that charges were brought or a lawsuit brought rather than waiting results of the legal action.

I do agree with you when it comes to personal responsibility, and consumers, they are the ones who are responsible for exercising the most personal responsibility. I do agree that some burden also rest on the producer, but truly free markets typically have a way of naturally eradicating producers that lie or provide false products. Better companies with better products last through the test of time, bad ones do not.

The banner above: one thing I’ve never understood is why members here don’t push younger guys (especially younger guys) towards those products. If they’re products that aren’t going to cause the user harm and people are concerned with younger guys harming themselves with AAS, then things like the banner above would be an obvious recommendation. The individual doesn’t need to promise them that the products are going to produce results like AAS, but they can offer these as a good starting point. Most all people are going to take something be it supplements or AAS. This is not going to change or be altered 99% of the time. Why not encourage people to take steps that will protect them? Force them, no but offer alternatives.

And there is no argument from me when it comes to calling someone out for posting untrue information, such as untrue SARM info or something like that. Of course you should say something.

all too rare now a days

**Frontpump** · 02-04-2016, 02:38 AM

Jimmy,

You get 1000 points and just earned my respect.

My experiences reflect your points in stark alignment. Keep fighting the good fight.

**Joco71** · 02-04-2016, 03:26 PM

Good read and wells said Jimmy!

**Java Man** · 02-28-2016, 02:54 PM

I dont have the time right now to read all of the subsequent posts but I did read your OP. Great write up Jimmy. I will definitely come back and read it all later. This kind of things gets me heated to no end as well.

**Proximal** · 03-02-2016, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by TheTaxMan

Definatley a case of newbs just taking their word for it, falling for it etc Nach

How many people do we see on this forum with silly cycles suggested by there buddies at the gym, or even by people who they dont know. Its lazy/gullible human beings that stupidly just take the first thing they hear.

For example.
I bet we could recommend so many newbs to run deca only cycles and i bet most of them would think, "he looks good in his avatar he must be telling the truth"

Another example is these people who fall for these supplements with a before and after pic of some roid head claiming he gained 100lbs in 4 weeks

Im just glad we all here give the right advice etc

-

Great post Jimmy, really enjoying these informative blog entries, cheers!

Just wanted to add what a pleasure it has been to be on this forum for this very reason. At 57 and with my education / background, I'm very knowledgeable in most everything discussed in this forum, except steroids . The longer I am here, the more I am impressed with the knowledge, helpfulness and above all, the health - mindedness of the members. Not kissing up to anyone here, just wanted to say that this forum and it's members are pretty damn amazing.