Libido shut down over 3 years post cycle please help

**manwithmission** · 03-21-2016, 03:48 PM

Hey guys,

I ran a test E only cycle about 3.5 years ago. Posted a thread on here when I was starting, but the cycle was something along the lines of:

-500 mg/week test e (250mg on mondays, 250mg on fridays) for 10 weeks
-arimidex on hand in case of gyno
-HCG on day of last pin at 500 iu ed until PCT
PCT: (2 weeks after last pin)
-nolvadex (40/40/20/20)
-clomid (100/100/50/50)

My libido is still shut down and never improved post cycle, still got major ed too. Not sure what I can do at this point, or why I waited this long to fix it, but hoping you guys can help shed some light on possible solutions.

Thanks

**manwithmission** · 03-21-2016, 03:58 PM

Also, had my test levels checked before starting cycle and came out at ~17 nmol/l

checked them post-cycle several months ago again and came out at about ~12 nmol/l, but docs said it is fine because still in normal range...

**manwithmission** · 03-21-2016, 03:59 PM

Wondering if a short HCG run could help me?

**Bio-Active** · 03-21-2016, 04:02 PM

Get labs done and find out what's going on. Take the guessing out

**manwithmission** · 03-21-2016, 04:36 PM

got the labs done man. I posted my pre and post test levels, they dropped a bit. Doc basically told me I'm fine and to f*vk off because he probably thought I was trying to get TRT. Told me to change my diet and take supplements, etc.

Or are there other things besides test I should be having doc run lab for?

Thanks

**Mr.BB** · 03-21-2016, 04:40 PM

How old were you when you started the cycle?

Dont you have recent bloodwork? A lot can happen in 3 years.

**manwithmission** · 03-21-2016, 04:46 PM

I was 21 when I started the cycle. I have recent bloodwork from like 5 months ago. My testosterone levels were about ~12 nmol/l in this recent lab test.

Never had my estrogen levels tested pre or post cycle, which I think might have been a mistake now...

**Bio-Active** · 03-21-2016, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by manwithmission

I was 21 when I started the cycle. I have recent bloodwork from like 5 months ago. My testosterone levels were about ~12 nmol/l in this recent lab test. Never had my estrogen levels tested pre or post cycle, which I think might have been a mistake now...

did you get a full hormone panel done?

**Mr.BB** · 03-21-2016, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by manwithmission

I was 21 when I started the cycle. I have recent bloodwork from like 5 months ago. My testosterone levels were about ~12 nmol/l in this recent lab test.

Never had my estrogen levels tested pre or post cycle, which I think might have been a mistake now...

So its not something new, some guys cycling young seem to have the same problem as you, we seen it before. Its why we advocate not cycle before 25.

Nevertheless you need a full hormone panel like Bio said.

Test, free test, sensitive e2, LH, FSH, prolactin, tsh, t4, free t4, free t3, vit d3, cbc and metabolic panel.

**manwithmission** · 03-21-2016, 05:23 PM

Ok thanks guys. I will update once I get this done. Appreciate the help.

**Megalodon6** · 03-22-2016, 08:34 AM

Get that bw and post it. There's a lot of knowledge on this board, and all of these guys have your best interest at heart

**manwithmission** · 04-02-2016, 04:42 PM

Hey guys, I just got my bloodwork back:

Prolactin: 22 ug/L (normal range: 0-15 ug/L)
E2: 88 pmol/L (normal range: 0-160 pmol/L)
TSH: 2.08 mIU/L (normal range: 0.20-400 mIU/L)
LH: 7 IU/L (normal range: 1-9 IU/L)
FSH: 1 IU/L (normal range: 1-18 IU/L)
Testost.: 15 nmol/L (normal range: 8-29 nmol/L)

Turns out my prolactin is above the normal range. Could this be the cause of my shutdown? If so, what can I do at this point (3.5 years post-cycle). Could caber help me bring my prolactin down?

Thanks again for the help

**manwithmission** · 04-02-2016, 05:07 PM

also, my FSH and TSH seem kind of low too

**Mr.BB** · 04-02-2016, 05:25 PM

TSH the lower the better, above 2 might indicate some thyroid problem.

Yes, FSH is low, dont like to see FSH below 2.5.

Yes, caber will surely lower the prolactin, but you should also go to a doctor and he should order a pituitary mri just to be safe.

No free test and SHBG?

**manwithmission** · 04-02-2016, 05:40 PM

Thanks for the response.

Do you think the FSH is low because of the prolactin? or are they independent of each other? If independent, what can I do about the FSH?

As for caber for the prolactin, would it permanently bring my prolactin down to normal levels, or would my prolactin hop right back up as soon as I got off caber? Reading up on it and it seems like it has a lot of sides so I'm hoping it's only something I need to do temporarily (like 0.25mg 2x a week for 8 weeks)

**manwithmission** · 04-02-2016, 05:41 PM

and no, doc was being difficult so no free test and SHBG

**Mr.BB** · 04-02-2016, 05:53 PM

Yes, prolactin can inhibit LH and FSH, remember they all come from the pituitary. And high prolactin will lower libido.

What has your doc said about the bloodwork?

**manwithmission** · 04-02-2016, 05:58 PM

I don't have a family doc. Walk-in clinic doc said to repeat tests for prolactin and go from there. He seemed more concerned with my creatinine levels which were a smidge bit over normal range (because I'm taking creatine monohydrate right now). Obvsly wasn't open with walk-in doc about history with aas (which seemed like the smart decision judging from his overreaction to creatine supps lol).

Will try and get referred to an endo, hopefully can get better insight that way

**numbere** · 04-03-2016, 12:14 PM

As BB said it's possible you have a thyroid issue.

Whether you see an endo or go back to the walk in clinic you should talk to the Dr about having a TRH/TRF assay.

It's the stimulant factor in elevated PRL.

This will rule out or differentiate between having a pituitary or hypothalamic disorder.

**manwithmission** · 04-03-2016, 02:31 PM

Ok good point. I will do that. Thanks for the response.

**manwithmission** · 04-03-2016, 04:49 PM

Just saw walk-in doctor and he told me it's not a thyroid issue because my TSH is normal, and so, was not willing to test for TRH/TRF assay. Was also not willing to refer to endo... Not sure what to do now

**numbere** · 04-03-2016, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by manwithmission

Just saw walk-in doctor and he told me it's not a thyroid issue because my TSH is normal, and so was not willing to test for TRH/TRF assay. Was also not willing to refer to endo... Not sure what to do now

Try not to be dismayed my the actions of the walk in Dr.

Those facilities are set up to process a high volume of patients.

You'll be treated much deferentially by an endo.

The American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists

**manwithmission** · 04-03-2016, 06:10 PM

Thanks but unfortunately I live in Canada, where despite the many benefits of the healthcare system (like it being free lol), you need a referral from a general physician in order to see an endo

**numbere** · 04-04-2016, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by manwithmission

Thanks but unfortunately I live in Canada, where despite the many benefits of the healthcare system (like it being free lol), you need a referral from a general physician in order to see an endo

I suppose universal healthcare has it's downsides.

Maybe if you see a Dr at a walk in clinic and present them with a list of endos that are accepting new patients.

**Mr.BB** · 04-04-2016, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by manwithmission

Thanks but unfortunately I live in Canada, where despite the many benefits of the healthcare system (like it being free lol), you need a referral from a general physician in order to see an endo

So did you mention the libido problem? Juice it up with some erectile dysfunction, innability to orgasm and that you gained 20lbs in 3 months, if you need more symptoms let us know.

**Ryan1986** · 04-05-2016, 03:27 PM

With everything you have said sounds like Pramipexole's perfect niche. Ask more experienced members I'm only going off what ive read.

**Ryan1986** · 04-05-2016, 03:31 PM

Also in my experience you have to make the doctors do what you want. Don't accept his answer and make him refer you. If he wont go see another and you will get the referral eventually. My sons circumcision wasn't done correctly and I had doctors making me feel like I was losing my mind and was being irrational, in the end I was right and he had to have corrective surgery.

**manwithmission** · 04-06-2016, 02:48 AM

Yeah the reason I mentioned the libido problem when I first went in to request my blood work. Upon receiving my bloodwork results, he chalked my libido and ed up to "performance anxiety" and "depression", said prolactin can be tested again in a year and go from there. Terrible physician.

I will be trying other clinics, so yes please, any additional symptoms you can tell me to really sell this to a walk-in doc to get my foot into an endo would be great!

**manwithmission** · 04-06-2016, 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by Ryan1986

With everything you have said sounds like Pramipexole's perfect niche. Ask more experienced members I'm only going off what ive read.

Okay thanks. I will look into it. Just wondering, why do you suggest pramipexole instead of caber?

**manwithmission** · 04-06-2016, 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by Ryan1986

Also in my experience you have to make the doctors do what you want. Don't accept his answer and make him refer you. If he wont go see another and you will get the referral eventually. My sons circumcision wasn't done correctly and I had doctors making me feel like I was losing my mind and was being irrational, in the end I was right and he had to have corrective surgery.

Ah sorry to hear that man. But ya I'll stick to it, thanks for the support.

**Ryan1986** · 04-06-2016, 10:14 AM

I have never used either compound and am only basing that off of what I have read. Prami and Caber both LOOK like good choices to me but hopefully more experienced members can help and weigh in on that as I do not have the knowledge to give you a definitive answer on either. Prami has a slight increase in GH levels for a time but there are other benefits of caber such as sleep, cravings, and an adrenal rush feeling that may be more beneficial. I don't know but when I read what you said they both sound like a possible option to look at.

**numbere** · 04-06-2016, 11:04 AM

Sure OP can take a DA.

It will lower his PRL and probably help his libido, but it won't fix whatever is causing his imbalance.

It would be like putting your arm in a sling after it gets broken.

The sling will make it feel better but doesn't fix the underlying problem.

**manwithmission** · 04-07-2016, 02:40 AM

Hey guys, I did some more research on prolactinoma tumours and found this website:

https://pituitary.org/knowledge-base.../prolactinomas

Apparently, to diagnose a prolactinoma you need to test for prolactin levels at about 150-200 ng/ml. Mine were only like 22 ng/ml, just slightly over the normal range. This is probably why doctors have been scoffing at the idea of referring me to an endo.

I also read somewhere else that cycling before the age of 25, when your body is still developing its natural hormonal function can throw off the entire pituitary axis and hormone levels temporarily or permanently. I think this may have been what occurred in my case, as I was only 21 when I ran my test E cycle.

Would still be nice to see an endo though. Should I keep hounding docs, while playing up my symptoms? Or try and get my hands on some caber and see how I feel after a couple months?

**manwithmission** · 04-08-2016, 01:01 PM

Just received my bw results for a follow-up test:

Prolactin: 10 ug/L (normal range: 0-15 ug/L)
FSH: 1 IU/L (normal range: 1-18 IU/L)

This complicates things for me. Perhaps prolactin is not the cause of my shutdown afterall? Not sure what else could be a concern. My test is definitely low for my age (15nmol/L at 25 years of age), but not low enough to be abnormal/below normal range.

Could raising my FSH help me? Would HCG help with this?

**numbere** · 04-09-2016, 06:48 AM

That's great your prolactin has come down.

Hcg would raise FSH slightly but that would only be a temporary fix.

Honestly it's really difficult to imply any causation when you only provide 2 hormone values.

When you see a Dr they run a complete hormone assay because that's whats needed to formulate a diagnosis.

You definitely have inhibition in your sex hormone negative feedback loop because low FSH results in low LH, and your LH was fine last week.

My education is in engineering so my knowledge of hypothalamic pituitary disorders is limited.

You really ought to see a specialist.

**beginner91** · 05-03-2016, 12:15 AM

Hey man, any update on your recovery. I am in same boat as you, started too young and now regretting. Even all my stats are nearly same as you except that my T levels are quite below normal. Symtoms such as ED, low libido, slow muscle growth, etc has affected my confidence leading to depression. At this stage its important for you to find a good doc (endo) who will listen to your problem and motivate you along with good recovery programme. My Endo has prescribed me clomid for few days till new blood work.
All i can advice is to hang in there and dont give up hope. Wishing you all the luck for your recovery. Will be following up on your updates. Cheers.