4th cycle plan (Please Review and Comment)

**bethdoth** · 04-05-2016, 11:47 AM

Age:54
weight:205
height: 5' 10"
Bodyfat 14%-15%
Training many many years.
1st cycle: test blast 200mg a week.
2nd cycle: Tren Ace @50mg EOD, Test cyp 100mg E3.5D, caber, stane, NAC etc...
3rd cycle: Deca 400mg week, test cyp 200mg week, caber, stane NAC, HCG etc..

I didn't really like deca compared to tren, so I am going back to tren. I also want to do a dbol kick start.
Cycle 4 planning.
first 18days dbol EOD 30mg (my research and my logs from the last tren cycle indicate tren should be kicking in pretty good at his point)
wk 1-8 tren ace 75mg EOD (fairly low dose because I did great at 50mg EOD last time)
wk 1-8 Test cyp 100mg E3.5 days (I like keeping test low much easier to manage sides)
wk1-11 caber .25mcg E3.5 days
first 18 days 25mg stane (read dbol is very estrogenic)
Day 19- end of wk 8 12.5mg stane
always do 250 IU's of HCG twice a week
always take 600mg NAC

Ok my goal for this cycle is lean gains, and my gains will be targeted on capping my shoulders more, bit wider back, and deeper upper chest.
Please review input negative and positive appreciated.

**DROY** · 04-05-2016, 12:00 PM

If you are going to pin the tren a EOD why not go with test p 50mg EOD as well? This will give you the same amount of test as the test cyp and you won't have to manage two injection timetables. With the test p you also avoid the sides and you can start your PCT much sooner. I am doing a similar cycle (tren a 100mg and test p 100mg EOD) and it works very well. I am not a fan of dbol . Too many sides and too much liver stress at our age (58).

**bethdoth** · 04-05-2016, 02:00 PM

Ya I was unsure about dbol because of the sides. I may skip. I like to keep my test on the same schedule i use for my HRT.

**DROY** · 04-05-2016, 06:41 PM

I wasn't sure if you were on HRT so I suggested test prop. 18 days of dbol won't give you much anyway, I would just wait for the tren to kick in.

**TheTaxMan** · 04-06-2016, 12:47 AM

Unless pulsing and oral i wouldnt bother runing it any less than 4 weeks Rhoag

You dont realy need to kickstart a prop/ace cycle, they kick in pretty quick!

**NACH3** · 04-06-2016, 05:03 AM

Rhoag... Is that a typo on running the caber wks 1-11? I see your running cyp not prop... Your fine with the ace clearing in 3-4days... Only need to run your cyp up to wk 8(being your going back to HRT dose) or 9max... I don't see a problem with either .... I like pulsing an oral or back loading it as you finish stronger and can keep maximizing gains with either protocol! Looks good buddy!

**bethdoth** · 04-06-2016, 07:12 AM

Nach,
One of the things I learned from my first tren cycle was that at the end of the cycle the next 2 weeks were bad. I felt depressed, I was thinking that with the tren still in my system that the dopamine in my brain may have caused this, that is why I figured stay on the caber an extra 2 weeks. At the end of the 8 week cycle I will drop back to my 140mg test cyp.
I am still looking for more input on the dbol , since I have never used it, but have researched it. My concern is Blood Pressure? I have read that it will increase your strength in a hurry. Currently leaning toward not using it.

**NACH3** · 04-06-2016, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by rhoag

Nach,
One of the things I learned from my first tren cycle was that at the end of the cycle the next 2 weeks were bad. I felt depressed, I was thinking that with the tren still in my system that the dopamine in my brain may have caused this, that is why I figured stay on the caber an extra 2 weeks. At the end of the 8 week cycle I will drop back to my 140mg test cyp.
I am still looking for more input on the dbol, since I have never used it, but have researched it. My concern is Blood Pressure? I have read that it will increase your strength in a hurry. Currently leaning toward not using it.

Ok - you know your body better than anyone so if you feel it's needed(it's low dose and shouldn't effect you - it's not like your staying on it for no reason)...

D-Bol I've inly used pre-w/o and it sure does increase strength very fast(keep water intake high diet clean and you shouldn't blow up with water) a little but not much... Use it to further your gains(that's why I like to pulse it or backload it) pulsing would be my suggestion as it'll keep the sides at bay but you gotta time it right... If you get sides(bloat water retention/stomach issues etc) drop it and you went s tad too long! BP... It did make me feel as if mine spiked but I checked it often and it wasn't bad... My crit was a tad high so I drained about 16oz... Felt much better snd BP was down to 120/74.... Just watch it and how much were you thinking of doing? I think 25-30mgs/day would be fine or even 40

**bethdoth** · 04-06-2016, 08:53 AM

With pulsing if I went 3 days a week I should be able to do more. So I would go with 40mg 3x wk on workout days. How long would you pulse? I have 1,000mg of dbol Injectable not orals so 8 weeks at 120 a week would be 960, but do you really still need the dbol after the tren starts to kick in? Maybe do 50mg 3x week for 6 weeks?
I'm still not sure if I want to use the dbol at all since it's primarily for mass and strength. When I look at pictures of myself I am getting bigger, but I am not going for a huge body builder look. I am looking for more mass in a few key locations, but my goal is a lean bulk and I am not sure dbol would help much in that department. I was 204 this morning and still about 14%. If I could get to about 210 and 12% that is where I feel I would be satisfied. I would have the look I want and yet be able to continue a good mix of enjoyment (partying) and healthy lifestyle.

**bethdoth** · 04-07-2016, 06:17 AM

Any more thoughts on pulse, kick start or backload Dbol or just not use it at all?

**NACH3** · 04-07-2016, 06:34 AM

If you pulse it you'll want to keep an eye on when any sides srart to appear... If they appear you've gone too long... Id go at least 7on 7off - if not more - and yes you can up the dose as well - I think 40-50 is plenty -

Ex - I pulsed drol at 12on 10off repeated for 8-10wks but the first time I tried going 14 days and stomach issues started so I took 10-12off and kept it at 10-12on 10off... Backloading it is more for mass and getting past any sticking points - using water weight to push through the plateau... Id pulse it or not run it...

You can always add prop in the beginning for 4 wks?!

**bethdoth** · 04-07-2016, 12:20 PM

Ok I will try the pulse I think I will stick with 40 the first 7 days then decide if I should go to 50 the next 7. I plan to start next Monday for 8 weeks. I guess i better get a before and after pic.

**Strongblood** · 04-07-2016, 01:41 PM

I started Dbol for my first time 3 weeks ago, with a test Cyp, Deca blast. I took 30 mgs a day Dbol and 600mgs Per week Test. 500 Deca. After about 7 days strength went up but so did my BP. By day 14 I had to put it down. Started having bad acne, high BP, feeling like crap. It's hard to get an AI dialed in on that stuff too. It's been a week since I stopped the Dbol and I'm just now getting back to normal. I gained about 8 pounds while on the Dbol, so far I've lost 4 of them. Just wanted to let you know about my experience with it. Good luck bro!

**bethdoth** · 04-09-2016, 02:06 PM

Ya I decided against using the Dbol . I achieved great results last time with just 200mg test a week and 50mg tren A EOD. So at 75mg tren A EOD and I will stick with the 100mg test every 3.5 days. I know from experience that at this test level my total test goes right to the edge of max test 1100, and I can control E2 easily at this level. So I am going with the common sense less is better approach.
I am starting today! First tren injection here in a couple minutes then up my test when i do my normal HRT subq injection tomorrow morning.
One last question. Has anyone ever used liquid caber and was it as effective as the pills? I only have 12 pills left so i bought a bottle of the liquid caber.

**bethdoth** · 04-09-2016, 02:23 PM

Ok first injection done 75mg of golden nectar! I actually think IM is easier than subq. But for long term HRT I feel subq is better because you don't build scar tissue in the muscle.

**Dj Screw** · 04-09-2016, 03:47 PM

Do whatever you can to get your money back on that Liquid Caber. Dostinex/Cabergoline is not stable in Liquid form and is useless.

Good luck with the rest of the cycle bud, keep us posted on your progress.

**numbere** · 04-10-2016, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Dj Screw

Do whatever you can to get your money back on that Liquid Caber. Dostinex/Cabergoline is not stable in Liquid form and is useless.

As long as the research company used ethyl alcohol for the solvent and L-leucine for the excipient then OP will be fine,

**AR's King Silabolin** · 04-10-2016, 08:24 AM

If i would do a cycle like that today, i would get my hands on some GW or SR9009 to help on the cholestrol, better cardio vascular system, more endurance and easier to see gains due to more fatloss. And that tric will not be less important as we age.
I think i also would throw in some mk677. No sides with lots of benefits. Maybe you could lower the doses with this approach and get same or better results.

**NACH3** · 04-10-2016, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by rhoag

Ok first injection done 75mg of golden nectar! I actually think IM is easier than subq. But for long term HRT I feel subq is better because you don't build scar tissue in the muscle.

Sweet Rhoag! I'm sure your excited

I think not adding the d-Bol this go around is better... Next time you run tren look into pulsing drol!

**Dj Screw** · 04-10-2016, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by numbere

As long as the research company used ethyl alcohol for the solvent and L-leucine for the excipient then OP will be fine,

Is he going to be able to find out if that is the way it was constituted? I doubt it. It's a well known fact that Cabergoline/Dostinex is NOT stable in liquid. I wouldn't roll the dice on something like that with the chance of side effects. I would try to get a refund/exchange for the liquid and find some reliable caber in pill form. Good luck OP

**Bonaparte** · 04-10-2016, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Dj Screw

Is he going to be able to find out if that is the way it was constituted? I doubt it. It's a well known fact that Cabergoline/Dostinex is NOT stable in liquid. I wouldn't roll the dice on something like that with the chance of side effects. I would try to get a refund/exchange for the liquid and find some reliable caber in pill form. Good luck OP

It degrades in water, not necessarily all liquids.

**numbere** · 04-10-2016, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Dj Screw

Is he going to be able to find out if that is the way it was constituted? I doubt it. It's a well known fact that Cabergoline/Dostinex is NOT stable in liquid. I wouldn't roll the dice on something like that with the chance of side effects. I would try to get a refund/exchange for the liquid and find some reliable caber in pill form. Good luck OP

Well, if OP knows how to send an email then I'm sure he can find out.

They have to use either EA, chloroform or DMF as a solvent.

L-leucine works just as well as the film coating on the pill at preventing hydrolysis.

L-leucine costs less than $30 a kg so they wouldn't be saving much money by not using it as an excipient.

The only advantage caber pills have over liquid is that they are wrapped in aluminum, adding an extra layer of protection.

**bethdoth** · 04-11-2016, 10:48 AM

I will contact the supplier to see how the liquid caber was produced.

**bethdoth** · 04-14-2016, 06:24 AM

Here is the reply I got from the lab. "It's plenty stable in liquid form. Look at all the research sites that sell it in liquid form. Tons of them. Keep it in a cool dark place out of the light. Ours is suspended in a pharmaceutical suspension."
That really isn't very reassuring. I will look for the pill form again.

**bethdoth** · 04-15-2016, 12:14 PM

Week 1 coming to an end and zero side. Has not been a good week for me Sunday I felt strong, normally I do a 30min (so you want abs) ab routine, ended up doing 45 min. Monday morning woke up not feeling to great, but went to work. I didn't think I was going to make it home at 3:30 and thought I was going to have to pull over and puke. Got home just in time from about 3:30 to 7 I had liquid coming out of me everywhere for a total of 6 times. I also had a lingering cold that got worse so I went to the doc and she said I have bronchitis, so got some drugs for that. Feeling better today and will go lift tonight.

**bethdoth** · 04-20-2016, 06:03 AM

10 days in and even though my workouts have been weak from being sick muscles are fuller and harder. First night sweat last night but not to bad. Libido off the charts again.

**bethdoth** · 04-21-2016, 07:14 AM

Felt great the last two days...so glad to not be sick anymore. Un-fricking believable shoulder workout last night... pump was painful, but good.

**bethdoth** · 04-28-2016, 06:14 AM

I can't believe I screwed up! Don't know what was going through my brain, but I messed up. I planned to only do 100mg test cyp every 3.5 days this brings my total test to around 1100 and i know how to control estrogen at this. I use 200mg/ml but for some reason I was doing a full ml vise .5. So for the past 2 weeks I was doing 400mg vise 200mg a week. I noticed my left nipple getting sensitive so I started taking 25mg exstamane daily vise my normal 12.5.

**bethdoth** · 05-04-2016, 06:32 AM

I scheduled mid cycle labs. At a time when I should be feeling like superman (25 days into cycle) I feel tired. By noon I need a nap, force myself to the gym at 1500, and then asleep at 8-9 every night. Appetite is low, energy low, and over-all just don't feel great. I have the rare day when I feel good and get a good lift, but not every day.